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garage launch slowstick 12am

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Old 10-13-2012, 09:07 PM
  #51
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

The progression of the thread started off with hey that's illegal and terrible, to ok its not illegal but i still hate it, to i refuse to answer whether or not a pz vapor should be allowed over my house and this is poor representation. Couple more steps and we'll be in a neat place





I've brought up too many points to keep expecting discussion, so my most important discovery to be made is whether or not staunch ama supporters care if i fly around with a parkzone Vapor. maybe the three foot wingspan of a flimsy gws model was overdoing it, go smaller and you'll relent.

Lets test your thinking further: a pz vapor with no cam, only gps guidance for way point travel
and it flies right over your house at one am.

Now what...we removed the hyperbolic privacy banter, we removed liability in so many ways a counter cant be written, so what's left? You hate it still i know. If we could just get back to the days of a co2 motor and control lines you'll sleep better.


Once we say yes to vapor flights around the block, or continue to not talk about it in subsequent posts, the first several responses to this video are effectively null and void, just emotion. You have a subjective weight issue, and that's about it, but it had to be shown to those who didn't self assess it out of failure to examine real issues not just hype.
City ordinances about park flying are just like chihuahua owners breaking leash laws, or me letting my alley weeds get overgrown

don't make city ordinance all big now, like you never chipped a little wedge golf club action in the no no grass.

5grams flying over your house, nobody cares sans camera. 30 ounces and mild cam, you care. Guy looking at your house from telescope and mountain top, out of sight out of mind. The difference between a picture or a live motion color vid was never a concern before, can the telescope guy film, or just look? There's a ten ounce all flights allowed crew out there, speak up don't fear the majority.

most of you have a tipping point in grams, your stance isn't super firm. Some of you can be swayed to allowing urban flights if you just remove the cam, unity is also lacking in the knee jerk hate fpv crowd.

Also, don't act like i got lucky and am in the one city that allows aerial, non profit filming from public vantage points be they terra firma or the sky...i challenge you in a friendly way jester to post me a link of an American city that forbids it.

I'm sure there are some, but the link digging will further evolve your take on the matter even if you can't admit it in front of the guys.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:00 PM
  #52
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Brandon. You joined RCU in 2005 and it seems most of your posts have been in this thread. Where have you been? It seems you just came here looking for a fight and you found it.
 If you flew your non-lethal park flyer over a house, over a road, at night, and you can't even see the plane at all with your eyes, you are irresponsible and should be banned from r/c flight for ever.
What if you loose your camera and someone drives by, even after midnight, you hit their windshield, they crash and die. Guess who gets the blame? All of us. Thanks for that.
Also, don't correct other peoples' spelling unless your spelling and GRAMMER is perfect. Or is it "are" perfect. I am sure you'll tell me.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #53
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

You read this whole thread and still wrote that, wow. Wait, you didn't read the thread. You skimmed. No other threads revealed such well thought out boundaries before this one, guess you can label me intrigued.
Kap made himself an easy pick i had to take it.
Since i basically already wrote that scenario word for word, in anticipation, and provided the examples of following ama rules in a park and having your trojan lose signal and fly into a head you have only revealed yourself as a proxy account for kap now we know where u been all these yearz

You are drawing on worst case scenarios we'd face if following ama rules for park flying, next. Enjoy your one post. You've introduced completely new logic here and my thread was made better by it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:07 PM
  #54
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Also, don't act like i got lucky and am in the one city that allows aerial, non profit filming from public vantage points be they terra firma or the sky...i challenge you in a friendly way jester to post me a link of an American city that forbids it.
I live in an American city that does not allow any flying in any park because certain self proclaimed jailhouse lawyers performed similar mental gymnastics....."no one could tell them what to do", "we aren't breaking the law".....blah blah....now no flying in any park, cameras or no, 50 grams or .05 grams
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:08 PM
  #55
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Matt post the city ordinance let me fact check. Maybe we won't fly from a park in your city, i wasn't flying from a park in mine.

So you live in a city where pz vapors are outlawed? I want that kind of protection.

See my post about tall weeds in the alley. I think you aren't going to post the proof are you man.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:16 PM
  #56
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Brandon. I read the whole thread and i still think you should be banned from rc.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:19 PM
  #57
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

And you from any kind of introspective thought participation, you didn't state your case about the parkzone yes or no.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:23 PM
  #58
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I have nothing against park flyers or fpv, but at night, over houses. That is just stupid.
That is all I have to say about this trolling bait topic. So I am out....
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:25 PM
  #59
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Ok so three posts. If i was in a park at night and not by cam you are fine with it, park flyers can't veer off into traffic that brings cars to the park, that's what you would have written if your goal was to contribute anything material. You said not over houses, but in front of them at a park is ok, we need new anti fpv material that's not as wishy-washy. Isn't a roof more resistant to my plane than a window with your sideways trajectory compliant rig hurling at it?


this is a discussion about your weight requirements for neighborhood flying

that's now the reduced issue at hand. I've exceeded the weight restrictions, what should they be.

Define the weight that allows you to break the rules of the ama and fly rc around people and property, its a requirement for posting here.
One hundred percent of rc pilots believe a plantraco butterfly is acceptable, start there. You can write no logical scenario where all urban rc is banned. All the 'fpvrs' need to do now is build gear that confirms to your subjective whims, and you would all be willing video pilots.

but lets hate the thirty ounce guy.

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Old 10-13-2012, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KaP2011

I saw a news story back in the spring about a real estate agent in Colorado or somewhere that used a quad copter with a camera attached to shoot video of his listings. I thought it was a great idea but that was not the case with the reporter or the people he interviewed. They were all concerned that you could spy on people in their own homes. I believe if some of the people who's home you flew over knew about it they would report you to the police.


I'm a bit slow getting into this topic, but I have to reply to this particular post ... just to show you how screwed is the populace.

Last year, I was flying an MK quadcopter on my local sports field.

A middle-aged woman happened by, with her dog. She expressed an interest and I told her that the copter had a real-time video link ... showed her the pics on the little screen.

Instantly, her interest turned to alarm ... "Oh, but you could fly over my house and see what I'm doing." Hysteria wasn't far away, I could tell.

So, I said to her, "Actually, I'm doing this on behalf of the Humberside Police. I'm developing this equipment for them to use over built-up areas."

Well, it was instant calmness, on her part. I'll swear she heaved a huge sigh of relief.

As for me... face-palm.

Yes, by all means, you can look into my bedroom, if you are wearing a badge. That's the sort of person with whom we are dealing, chaps.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:02 PM
  #61
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Bob what i found interesting is how the majority of non rc types associate camera flying anything with the government as a first response, negatively, I've read more often than not. Where i am res publica would be incensed by the law using these. i'd like to fly my drones, they have patrols just like on the street. Fly a drone to fight crime all day long fine by me i don't think they will be in my window. I think we can all be sat tracked who cares. To me you can be a flyer and still have privacy boundaries

If i had my say the final ruling from the faa would be a complete freedom of drone work where size determines max altitude and you fly with alt restrictor chips as a rule. Unlimited lateral distance, but you only get 250 feet up to do it for ex
Pick a size that's agreed to be ground safe in a wreck, and keep it away from full craft.



Anyone who writes an article for a magazine or jumps on an anti-bandwagon regarding fpv needs to define size of craft under attack. Don't make some planes ok for neighborhood use then get all concerned when someone makes them autonomous. submit a list of acceptable planes for this application, i nominate the humble slow stick. You've all agreed the plantraco was universally acceptable through no contest, what's in between?
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:52 AM
  #62
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Why did it take you 3 pages in a thread you started to finally admit that what you did/are doing "might" not be safe?
That is what most of the posters here have been saying all along.  Your  comment  shown on your video of " I don't use the AMA as my insurance company so their views on flying sites don't apply" shows your disdain for their safety guidelines and rules that the majority of us uphold. 
That is the major point of contention here. What you did was not safe.......period and as stated by many; just because some others do it too still doesn't make it right. This loose cannon stance many are taking in regards to operating fpv could have a huge impact on everyone, not just those who fly fpv.
 I'm not against fpv ,I'm against anyone flying any type of aircraft recklessly without regard for others safety.
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:54 AM
  #63
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Ok i read what you said

Now pls answer my two questions.

What size plane do you agree can be flown in this application

why is flying in a park, with people at the perimeter, ok by you. That's what the ama tells you to do. The lack of critical thinking casts a dark shadow on our hobby, if only geico had similar command over its audience.


If you will specifically answer those legit questions, we'll have something.
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:56 AM
  #64
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I thought the flight was stable and well planned, not reckless.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:29 AM
  #65
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Scale flyer has the respectable opinion against my mode since he doesn't park fly anything.
It took three pages of posts like yours walenda to get us this far.
The people who support park flying using safety examples are dangerously misled, no people were outside when i flew and you make subjective calls about how busy a park you should fly in. Since ama says they'll cover damages in a park of people, you just subject them all to the risk.

Its certainly not possible to support park flying and decry what i do as dangerous, but its a common perspective.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:53 AM
  #66
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

You keep saying that you are a ham... stop dragging that aspect into this... just because you are broadcasting on a frequency that you are entitled by license to use does not make any other aspect of this acceptable..

I too am a ham... I enjoy flying FPV, but I do not think having a ham license makes this acceptable or for that matter unacceptable. The two are not linked what so ever. You could, in fact be causing damage to both hobbies.

As we both know, it is very easy to get a tech license... can be done in a week. All it takes is the stroke of a pen from the FCC to take that frequency away from all of us.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:18 AM
  #67
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I am somewhat on the fence on this one, which is not all that unusual for me. I have been around machinery and mechanical stuff all my life with great risks, so things like this bear little danger to me. Neither am I for or against from my thoughts to what I can tell. The risks I do believe are minimal if hardly any at all.

The biggest thing I see is a person's perceived privacy. Notice I placed this at a person's privacy level for the conversation. Where I do think there is an issue is how my conscience would play out if I did this. If for any reason any aspect of what we do in RC becomes a possibility of crossing a line we may be best putting more thought into it.

Please don't read more into this as there must be a baseline set for thinking this out properly. There are those of us that are more risk takers than others so that adds some variables into the baseline and then we must have rule makers because we need governing. I guess I am one of those guys that follows more along the lines of when in doubt think some more about it and make sure you have all the angles before making the choice.

Is it safe? I would think it is about as safe as you can get when comparing to all the other RC planes I have seen fly and get away from folks. I have seen RC planes of decent size just fly off into the sunset. Fortuneatly to never see again and yet in some cases they were found. Can you imagine had those hit someone, hit a car windsheild, or fell into a crowd of people? Yes, they were flown from an AMA RC club!

I don't know anything about your town, but I wonder since it is legal to fly the way you are what would be the harm in letting folks know your "route" and that you will be doing such flying and making them aware that you really cannot see anything down low that would cause any privacy issues? Is that out of bounds? It certainly would be respectful and courteous and if someone said "No" then you could alter your route to accomodate and that would give them the choice?

On a side note, it would not bother me for a park flyer to fly over my house at all - day or night. I think privacy is a sensitive issue now and that changes the game somewhat. I really don't care as long as there is nothing that I deem a privacy invasion. When I am absolutely sure that a privacy invasion has occurred then I would take the park flyer out by whatever means I could find to do so [X(]

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Old 10-14-2012, 05:12 AM
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Luchnia

I am somewhat on the fence on this one, which is not all that unusual for me. I have been around machinery and mechanical stuff all my life with great risks, so things like this bear little danger to me. Neither am I for or against from my thoughts to what I can tell. The risks I do believe are minimal if hardly any at all.

The biggest thing I see is a person's perceived privacy. Notice I placed this at a person's privacy level for the conversation. Where I do think there is an issue is how my conscience would play out if I did this. If for any reason any aspect of what we do in RC becomes a possibility of crossing a line we may be best putting more thought into it.

Please don't read more into this as there must be a baseline set for thinking this out properly. There are those of us that are more risk takers than others so that adds some variables into the baseline and then we must have rule makers because we need governing. I guess I am one of those guys that follows more along the lines of when in doubt think some more about it and make sure you have all the angles before making the choice.

Is it safe? I would think it is about as safe as you can get when comparing to all the other RC planes I have seen fly and get away from folks. I have seen RC planes of decent size just fly off into the sunset. Fortuneatly to never see again and yet in some cases they were found. Can you imagine had those hit someone, hit a car windsheild, or fell into a crowd of people? Yes, they were flown from an AMA RC club!

I don't know anything about your town, but I wonder since it is legal to fly the way you are what would be the harm in letting folks know your ''route'' and that you will be doing such flying and making them aware that you really cannot see anything down low that would cause any privacy issues? Is that out of bounds? It certainly would be respectful and courteous and if someone said ''No'' then you could alter your route to accomodate and that would give them the choice?

On a side note, it would not bother me for a park flyer to fly over my house at all - day or night. I think privacy is a sensitive issue now and that changes the game somewhat. I really don't care as long as there is nothing that I deem a privacy invasion. When I am absolutely sure that a privacy invasion has occurred then I would take the park flyer out by whatever means I could find to do so [X(]

Excellent post, Luchnia.
As I was reading thru this thread, I was gathering my thoughts to make a reply and came to yours and
you have said it for me.

Re your last paragraph:
I live near a couple of airports, and have aircraft of all types flying over our house all the time.
No matter how low they fly, and we have ultralights and para planes fly over pretty low, I always find myself wishing I was up there with them.
But, the idea of someone flying any kind of un-manned craft, filming or no, over my house would, I think, bring out the caveman in me
and cause me to want to grab my 12 gage splattermatic.
I know that's probably not rational, but, there it is.
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:12 AM
  #69
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Luchnia



Is it safe? I would think it is about as safe as you can get when comparing to all the other RC planes I have seen fly and get away from folks. I have seen RC planes of decent size just fly off into the sunset. Fortuneatly to never see again and yet in some cases they were found. Can you imagine had those hit someone, hit a car windsheild, or fell into a crowd of people? Yes, they were flown from an AMA RC club!

[X(]

Bit of apples& oranges here. I don't know of any flying club fields where the normal patterns take pilots/planes over towns,houses,yards,roads, etc. while they are flying normally. Yes planes do go out of control and sometimes do wander off the normal flight area and into populated areas but typically the mishaps are within the flying field areas. This and similar flights start,continue, and end flying over towns, houses, yards,roads.
Why put others and yourself at risk like this at all? Nobody is that good or that lucky.

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Old 10-14-2012, 06:20 AM
  #70
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Since you directed the question directly to me, I'll give you my answer. I think that any flying over people's houses with any RC plane is out of line. Not because it's dangerous, but because it's bad PR. You've made it clear that you don't consider PR to be your responsibility, which is typical for the FPV crowd. To try and change your mind, I'll point out that this hobby has existed for nearly 100 years (aeromodeling) in various forms and with numerous technological advancements that have resulted in paradigm shifts. Through it all, we have done what amounts to a fairly dangerous activity with almost zero government regulation. I can't think of many other hobbies that can say that- the shooting sports, racing of all kinds, boating and fishing, hunting, and even skateboarding have brought either federal or local regulations upon themselves over the years. We have not, and a large reason for that is the fact that there has always been an attitude of self-regulation and staying conscious of how we appear to people. The culture of the hobby is starting to change from a community mindset to an individual mindset, and the individual only cares about what he wants to do today. It's a short sighted way to think that has and will continue to create PR problems for the hobby. The AMA is working to advocate for the hobby, for your rights to keep enjoying it. I assume you aren't contributing anything to that, so I'm going to ask you to at least not make thing harder by creating PR troubles that make people think that RC'ers are all buzzing their chimney's in the middle of the night.

As for showing you places where RC flying is not allowed, you already said you are sure that there are such places. There's no need for me to prove something to you that you are already sure of.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I have seen model airplanes crash for just about every reason you can think of and that was in day light. The idea of a camera doesn't bother me but the idea of controlling a model aircraft out of visual range, at night, using on a single camera with no redundancy of the control systems or the video link does bother me. You could easily lose control and crash. The size and weight of the airplane are not really a factor in how much damage it could. It could run harlessly into a fence or crash into a garage full of gasoline cans and the Lipo could start a fire. Regardless of whether or not it is legal or not does not mean it isn't a stupid and irresponsible thing to do. Most adults have better sense but some don't.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:16 AM
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Oh and one other thing... you are required to broadcast your call sign/number.

§97.119 Station identification.
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.

This is clearly not being done, so you are violating rules and regulations.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:21 AM
  #73
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Luchnia wrote very well. All of you skipped the two questions again



Six, I've stated why i included being a ham, you skipped reading that. If i wasn't, that will be included in the list of illegalities.

Walenda, you skip points and avoid my comparisons. The ama's stance on park flying, which tells you and jester what you can and can't do, says you can take a non rc public park and make it one. There's every chance your plane could veer sideways into someone. I fly when less or no people are out.


Please include in privacy assessments going forward the required comparison to google earth, and if you think the fpv cam thing is a double standard.

People need to include in their responses what size plane is allowed for these flights, you guys are breaking ama code when you fly a parkzone vapor in your yard, but is that sensible? Its amazing those points will continue to be skipped.

Guess what my position is on shooting civilian uavs down

Go for it, i won't be mad, really. Its your right fully.

Again I'm reading from people who refuse to address it that my midnight flight over zero people its bad but your daily flights with people around you in a park is good, your double standards are silly.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:25 AM
  #74
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

On your six, see what i mean? Desperately trying to find something illegal.

Two questions Sherlock:

Does my vid look edited to you in any way?

What is the length of the video? What is the interval time between callsign xmission?

Keep thinking!

I like how you said don't talk about ham and then use it as an argument.

Name one time where you saw my propeller not spinning, in this edit.

Guess what's written on back of propeller?
Facing the camera? A little code that tells you where i live so you can come steal all my stereo equipment

I'm so actually not required to put that in a YouTube video.
Another assumption gone down the drain, you must be having beers with the no spotter guy. Let me guess, you think park flying during the day is safer because you were told it was?
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:30 AM
  #75
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I drive NEXT to a sidewalk everyday, I don't drive ON the sidewalk.

Flying adjacent to people with proper setbacks is proven safe. Flying over people is not safe.

I reject you argument that it is ever OK to fly over someone's house without permission. Any size plane, camera or no.
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