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garage launch slowstick 12am

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Old 10-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #201
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I hack at guitars also. 60. My older brother fixed them (he's passed), had some rockers by the house in tha day. My house is the same, share it with my RC stuff.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:50 PM
  #202
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Here are some thoughts:

The pilot was flying the FPV over houses and roads. Although the area over which he was flying are less populated, the pilot is running a few risks he may not realize.
1. The plane could go out of control because of interference, turbulence (from police helis, etc...) or raptor attack.
2. The plane could distract late night drivers, who are not expecting to see a 4-foot wingspan, low-flying aircraft.
3. The pilot could jeopardize the hobby for the rest of us due to his reckless disregard for the rules established by our "community" (eg AMA)

The pilot can currently claim that he is not required to abide by AMA rules.

However, the AMA is actively engaging with the FAA to help us maintain the ability to fly FPV. The only reason that FAA is allowing AMA to continue FPV is because the AMA agrees to have our members abide by the "Community Standards."

If the FAA finds that people are not abiding by these standards (eg - flying without a spotter, and beyond visual range) - then the FAA may begin to create laws that limit our hobby.


A recent incident in our community drove this point home for me:
A local (major) Speedway owner allowed our local flying club to use his huge parking lots for RC Air Racing, during non-race weekends.

An FPV pilot flew his plane over the speedway during a race, and posted the video of his flight on YouTube. (That's being dumb twice)
To my knowledge, the young man was NOT a member of AMA or the flying club.

The speedway owner was angry and took it out on the flying club. The flying club is no longer allowed to use this great flying site.

Put another way - DUDE - YOU ARE BEING SELFISH AND JEOPARDIZING THIS HOBBY FOR THE REST OF US. GROW UP and recognize that you are part of a community and your actions have consequences beyond yourself.


\
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  #203
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Gee, bold AND caps. 
I find increasing the font size is also effective in making a point.   
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:18 PM
  #204
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

JohnAsaPrice

Fair points, but you didn't read the whole thread and that matters. If you did read, pls respond to the other points we've compiled.

You mentioned low flying distraction, can they see me at night? You must have meant with lights on...if that's the case, we think legit flying at a park at night w be the same distraction.
You mentioned danger

If i switched out for a smaller plane, a parkzone ember, could it then be safe? Those are flown in front yards all the time.

Thanks for inputting your opinion. I understand how my flight isn't easily digestible to all, so help me carve it up to be so.

If i didn't fly the slow stick, and switched to an ember, which kids already fly in every block in us, would that be now safe but part of a new privacy bag of worms?
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:31 PM
  #205
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Try to avoid the blanket statement of all rc is dangerous over homes...toy grade/weight is not if we weren't comparing it to the flight i posted. I thought a slow stick was light enough to remove risk

If not, a parkzone ultralight sure is.

The standard so far for this thread is to keep saying everything is dangerous to avoid defining what would make it ok

I'm interested in knowing what changes you'd want as a homeowner if i was buzzing your place when you were asleep and could not know it.

If privacy concerns avail, pls discuss the google earth angle.

JohnPrice i hope you'll stay engaged with us and not just drop and run. I'm willing to change the plane I'm using.

Since most, all, posters who claimed the danger angle refuse to answer the question of plane downsizing, Id add that in my minds eye if you won't allow parkzone ultralights on your block then you must be chasing away any kid who plays with one, it could easily land on your roof.

Most people aren't like that though, so dont pretend to be for the sake of this thread. My first flight was heinous apparently, but if I switch to flying with the same planes we allow little kids to fly anywhere, including densely packed malls where people pass by demo kiosks, Im showing you there is a way to do this safely.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:51 PM
  #206
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnAsaPrice



DUDE - YOU ARE BEING SELFISH AND JEOPARDIZING THIS HOBBY FOR THE REST OF US. GROW UP and recognize that you are part of a community and your actions have consequences beyond yourself.

Boy John I feel your pain about loosing your field, we had a guy start flying long range FPV at our city park field, way out over the freeways. I think we got through to him however.

I have been trying to get this message across for pages and pages now, I hope your message takes.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #207
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Matt, we are waiting to see if he dodges points for 7 pages before finding out. A page ago you and I agreed to disagree, after you agreed the danger aspect is gone, a major tenet in this thread and the only one I care about knowing. You really don't need to post further but you can, and likely will.

Awaiting John's response about ember flights and toy rc flights that we always allow to fly, anywhere.

I posted here to find out what it takes to make the staunchest rc advocates allow us to fly by cam what kids fly in their presence without one. THe slowstick may indeed be too big, so I'll downsize and save that for the lake.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:57 PM
  #208
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Try to avoid the blanket statement of all rc is dangerous over homes...toy grade/weight is not if we weren't comparing it to the flight i posted. I thought a slow stick was light enough to remove risk

If not, a parkzone ultralight sure is.

The standard so far for this thread is to keep saying everything is dangerous to avoid defining what would make it ok

I'm interested in knowing what changes you'd want as a homeowner if i was buzzing your place when you were asleep and could not know it.

If privacy concerns avail, pls discuss the google earth angle.

JohnPrice i hope you'll stay engaged with us and not just drop and run. I'm willing to change the plane I'm using.
Brandon, it is obvious that most of us (according to the poll on the other thread) think that flying any rc over others' homes is not right, whether statistically dangerous or not.
Equally obvious is that you disagree. You're not going to change my mind, and I suspect you won't change most other's minds, and I am sure we won't change yours.
So, what's the point?

In your favor is the fact that, despite the hype telling us that fpv is "exploding" in popularity, it still is relatively rare for most of the public to see or even know of such a thing.
IMO, you guys better hope that remains true. In the last year or so, I've seen many articles in papers, magazines, and online about public awareness of the coming
UAS rules from FAA, and how that will be affected by the increasing use of UAS for commercial purposes. From what I have seen, the reaction is pretty negative
owing to privacy and safety concerns. True enough, this always happens when a new technology emerges.
But, it may prove to be difficult to separate yourselves from the perceptions regular folk have of governments and companies using these things.
I just don't think you are doing the fpv community or yourself any favors by doing what you are doing.
In the meantime, stay safe.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:00 PM
  #209
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

my point was that instead of taking time to find details, you guys lump all activity into your uncomfort zone. as soon as you are pressed for details, we get 8 pages of this

I never thought this would be well received, but thats because Ive tested the idea around very similar types who will not consider alternatives, and even worse, fly in parks while stating what I do is dangerous.

As long as each one of you see a parkzone vapor as dangerous going forward, we are set. as long as you see park flying in any manner in a non rc dedicated park as totally dangerous, we're set. Removing double standards was a hopeful goal...
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:10 PM
  #210
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

my point was that instead of taking time to find details, you guys lump all activity into your uncomfort zone. as soon as you are pressed for details, we get 8 pages of this

I never thought this would be well received, but thats because Ive tested the idea around very similar types who will not consider alternatives, and even worse, fly in parks while stating what I do is dangerous.

As long as each one of you see a parkzone vapor as dangerous going forward, we are set. as long as you see park flying in any manner in a non rc dedicated park as totally dangerous, we're set. Removing double standards was a hopeful goal...

My point was that your behavior, if not unsafe, is just plain rude.
It is no different from someone standing in the street throwing baseballs, or even harmless whiffle balls, over your house to someone in your neighbor's yard.
Not necessarily dangerous, just rude. Uncivil. Not nice manners. Un-neighborly. Etc.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:25 PM
  #211
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Topspin i came here looking to see what it will take to integrate fpv into non standard flight areas among people i knew were very respectable and staunch safety advocates. I had seen a few double standards worth reviewing, we got into that.

But your posts were about strange facts that were very distracting, and inaccurate.

So look at this pic, lets accuse me of photoshopping too. You still haven't commented on the ember like Matt did. I can tell you are an old school ham by your awesome receptivity and point on point fact checking but i can also tell you don't fly with that knowledge at all. Maybe l-com sold me an incorrect yagi? Or you may just be wrong, again. Look up 14dbi 900 yagi there and post up your apologies here if you don't mind.


14 dbi, 35 in. http://www.moonblinkwifi.com/pd-moon...mb-900-y14.cfm

Sorry slick but no appology today.. It is possible that you don't understand element spacing vs boom length vs beamwidth. That would be my guess.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:27 PM
  #212
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 804


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

my point was that instead of taking time to find details, you guys lump all activity into your uncomfort zone. as soon as you are pressed for details, we get 8 pages of this

I never thought this would be well received, but thats because Ive tested the idea around very similar types who will not consider alternatives, and even worse, fly in parks while stating what I do is dangerous.

As long as each one of you see a parkzone vapor as dangerous going forward, we are set. as long as you see park flying in any manner in a non rc dedicated park as totally dangerous, we're set. Removing double standards was a hopeful goal...

My point was that your behavior, if not unsafe, is just plain rude.
It is no different from someone standing in the street throwing baseballs, or even harmless whiffle balls, over your house to someone in your neighbor's yard.
Not necessarily dangerous, just rude. Uncivil. Not nice manners. Un-neighborly. Etc.
When I was coming up it was considered "disrepectful" by the folks around home and you could get your rear stomped At any rate, I think you make a very good point with the whiffle ball example. It seems to all matter when it is around or over someone's property whether it is safe or not.

Take for instance we took the whiffle ball out and played in the field - no harm done. Yet, if we throwed it over the house back and forth eventually it would not be well received. This takes on a totally different light when thinking of it this way. As I posted earlier, it would not bother me for a park flyer to fly over my house, yet if at some point I thought that it was privacy invasion then she would have to come down [X(]

Now another angle is if that park flyer continuously flew over my house then after a while I would get bothered by that thinking that someone would have an agenda beyond just getting from point A to point B. I would begin to question the motives of why someone would keep flying a park flyer over my house.

There is something to be said for one's abode and I do think a certain amount of respect follows that. The only way I would fly over someone's house is if it was a mistake, no other way.

Ok, that is another 2.5 cents in the pool [8D]
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:30 PM
  #213
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Ok i get that, sorry to come off that way I'm a bit out numbered lol.

Wiffle ball analogy made me smile. My neighbors like me only this thread seems so bad...

804

Consider this, i know y'all think I'm just here stirring the pot, aint. Just looking for max convenience of flight really, i hope you believe me. I could have been flying the foam rig posted earlier by the chap who had all the fancy fpv gear...its twice as heavy as mine so i went bare bones slow stick which imo was safe, am double checking that but only with those who work out the thought line.


If i wanted to walk out front and fly an ember and buzz both your yard and mine you really must agree you wouldn't care. You wouldn't even find it rude...being an rc guy you'd actually have a common ground. You wouldn't ask me to stop.

So you can see how i just can't understand how fpv'ng that changes things.

As long as someone who doesn't want me filming can show prior activism against google earth, merely the attempt to enforce ones rights consistently, I'd not film ya out of courtesy cuz that's being consistent and I'm not out to offend.

If i didn't ask ya, I'd still fly at night since i can't see any ground detail, your privacy wouldn't be affected and neither would safety.

It comes down not of safety any longer, like i predicted, but of the simple right we all want to opt out of something without explanation.

They should have opened up the counter posts on page one with that...but they choose danger and privacy concerns which are always valid points of discussion.

You write well, one of three now who can disagree and still show reason, not blanket falsehoods. Heck no i would fly around your prop i don't want you wiffle batting my ember!

:-)


Top spin, don't you have an out of context poll to manage make people think i mean .40 gassers and stuff.

Why would you not post a link where i actually bought it? Wierd. Anyway, you are welcome to post here wish i had the same freedom on your thread.
You really shouldn't write more if that stuff here, everyone is getting tired of it even though I'm the one they hate lol quit taking my sunshine lol
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:59 PM
  #214
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

You guys got me thinking...do they still make whiffle balls? Heck, since all the electronic games I suppose it would be difficult to sell a whiffle ball these days. After all, kids don't go outside anymore do they?

Brandon, if you fly over your neighbors and your neighbors are cool with it, then I think that is what is important. If one of your neighbors dislikes it then respect that and move on to the next area and I think all will be well [8D]
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:45 PM
  #215
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

This thread has gotten Waaaay to much attention and i'm sure its got the attention of people who wait for things like this to come up to make rules, laws and regulations and penalize others for ones actions.[]
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:57 PM
  #216
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Luchnia well said. will do.

blhollo, that may be the case or it could also be the case size limitations will apply, its not always negative just because thats the in-grained reaction we are programmed to give. maybe if someone takes time to adhere to all weight restrictions, they can fly as conveniently as they want.


Remember one point we lost somewhere in the earlier pages...all these fpv vids everyone hates were supposed to cause us massive reg restructuring in 2006 fwd, thats the dates of some of the older ones online.
Any contentious fpv thread you can google from earlier years has the exact same dialog, you are affecting normal rc, we're going to be regulated out the door etc


Yet the years still come. Who here thinks the Obama was thinking of rc planes when he authorized a bill stating the FAA can never regulate us without an integration order in place>? Read literally, it looks as if they want to protect us, not over enforce. Read the details. I truly don't think our wimpy vids have anything to do with regulation, but Im not a knee jerk reactor either, I try to see big pictures. Read the integration and modernization act summaries online for good detail.

FAA may or may NOT give authority to the AMA, we don't know. it could just as easy allow a self governing board of fpv fliers to self regulate fpv activity.
In that case, guess who the lobbyist will be for unrestricted micro flights
The Feds just convened recently, opting not to regulate, after seeing the worst of them. So, again its a recurring opinion we are shaping regulation, but in actuality we just may not be. Perhaps it was coming regardless.

This is the best thread on the internet about legalities concerning FPV at the civilian level. understanding the complex information is much easier when the people who watch all the legislation intently can help decipher what it means to a civilian flyer.

If you have twenty hours to kill, read this, then you will have one heck of a perspective on the legal trends past and present, without having to erroneously state anything:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...911761&page=82
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:10 PM
  #217
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Luchnia well said. will do.
I am glad to see that you changed your position and will ask before flying over people's homes. See the last 3 pages were good for something after all!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11263399
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:14 PM
  #218
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

Hi Matt again

You got that backwards, I said anyone who asked me to stop I would. but they have to be reasonable
theres a few here Id just rather play shotgun games I think I could outfly your magnum duck loads lol

Brandon, if you fly over your neighbors and your neighbors are cool with it, then I think that is what is important. If one of your neighbors dislikes it then respect that and move on to the next area and I think all will be well
I agreed to honor that statement above.


Ive been flying since 2001 on my block with this very ss, the cam was only recent, I would have had to get complaints long ago for it to matter now.
Before nlos flight we would drop all kinds of parachute men and try to make them land in the cul de sac, just fun stuff


rigging huge bags of glitter to be released etc, all really simple stuff.

Luchnia theres something else you mentioned I wanted to comment on, about the regular flights over a given house and how wierd that must look. My southern neighbors are in the same boat...I don't ever fly north, thats towards the heart of the city, my block runs n-s so Im always taking off and over flying the house at the end of my cul de sac, but they know its me they are one of the cool people who watch for me to set up my flight station up the street, then they set up their lawn chairs and watch the show. I fly to an empty field a few hundred yards out, flick on the lights, and start the show. If I ever crashed in their backyard they'd want me to fix the plane asap, they ask us when we take walks at night if we'll be up or not at dark, I always tell em to check the wind. if we've got a n-s max 10mph or an e-w max 5ish I'll be up and they love it.

interpretations vary greatly on this matter.

On topspin's poll one poster just wrote an fpv plane is likely to be shot down in his area of the city. Shooting things wasn't in the poll but we can discuss that...hmm
weapons discharge in a city over a totally legal act, wowee and I thought texans were the gun crazy ones. thats safe!
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:27 PM
  #219
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Luchnia

You guys got me thinking...do they still make whiffle balls? Heck, since all the electronic games I suppose it would be difficult to sell a whiffle ball these days. After all, kids don't go outside anymore do they?

Brandon, if you fly over your neighbors and your neighbors are cool with it, then I think that is what is important. If one of your neighbors dislikes it then respect that and move on to the next area and I think all will be well [8D]
They still make 'em.
We had a RC "bowling" contest at our funfly this year, a guy brought some whiffle balls to use as the bowling ball. Too lightweight as it turned out.
I think your position re neighbors is reasonable.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:30 PM
  #220
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Hi Matt again

You got that backwards, I said anyone who asked me to stop I would. but they have to be reasonable
theres a few here Id just rather play shotgun games I think I could outfly your magnum duck loads lol

those who would discharge a weapon in public against something totally legal and protected are clearly on the side of safe


I didn't say Id poll my whole neighborhood nor those I traverse deep in the night.

Ive been flying since 2001 on my block with this very ss, the cam was only recent, I would have had to get complaints long ago for it to matter now.
Before nlos flight we would drop all kinds of stuffed animals from a few hundred feet up and try and make them land in our cul de sac. yes, there are some backyards that got free beenie babies heh.

Luchnia theres something else you mentioned I wanted to comment on, about the regular flights over a given house and how wierd that must look. My southern neighbors are in the same boat...I don't ever fly north, thats towards the heart of the city, my block runs n-s so Im always taking off and over flying the house at the end of my cul de sac, but they know its me they are one of the cool people who watch for me to set up my flight station up the street, then they set up their lawn chairs and watch the show. I fly to an empty field a few hundred yards out, flick on the lights, and start the show. If I ever crashed in their backyard they'd want me to fix the plane asap, they ask us when we take walks at night if we'll be up or not at dark, I always tell em to check the wind. if we've got a n-s max 10mph or an e-w mad 5ish I'll be up and they love it.

interpretations vary greatly on this matter.
I wouldn't really try to shoot you down,
but, I might chase you around with my 600 nitro heli.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:39 PM
  #221
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

and Id run like hell lol that bad boy is a flying chainsaw
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:51 PM
  #222
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Brandon, if you fly over your neighbors and your neighbors are cool with it, then I think that is what is important. If one of your neighbors dislikes it then respect that and move on to the next area and I think all will be well
I agreed to honor that statement above.
Well I am glad to hear you have decided to respect you neighbors rights, great news.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:54 PM
  #223
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Yes thats well enough for me do we agree enough to fly together now or are you too good for me



I ask because after a hard days fight I can still share a beer with someone quasi reasonable heh. And we'd fly in your nearest ama sanctioned field, all up spotters and stuff.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:07 PM
  #224
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: brandon429

Ok i get that, sorry to come off that way I'm a bit out numbered lol.

Wiffle ball analogy made me smile. My neighbors like me only this thread seems so bad...

804

Consider this, i know y'all think I'm just here stirring the pot, aint. Just looking for max convenience of flight really, i hope you believe me. I could have been flying the foam rig posted earlier by the chap who had all the fancy fpv gear...its twice as heavy as mine so i went bare bones slow stick which imo was safe, am double checking that but only with those who work out the thought line.


If i wanted to walk out front and fly an ember and buzz both your yard and mine you really must agree you wouldn't care. You wouldn't even find it rude...being an rc guy you'd actually have a common ground. You wouldn't ask me to stop.

So you can see how i just can't understand how fpv'ng that changes things.

As long as someone who doesn't want me filming can show prior activism against google earth, merely the attempt to enforce ones rights consistently, I'd not film ya out of courtesy cuz that's being consistent and I'm not out to offend.

If i didn't ask ya, I'd still fly at night since i can't see any ground detail, your privacy wouldn't be affected and neither would safety.

It comes down not of safety any longer, like i predicted, but of the simple right we all want to opt out of something without explanation.

They should have opened up the counter posts on page one with that...but they choose danger and privacy concerns which are always valid points of discussion.

You write well, one of three now who can disagree and still show reason, not blanket falsehoods. Heck no i would fly around your prop i don't want you wiffle batting my ember!

:-)


Top spin, don't you have an out of context poll to manage make people think i mean .40 gassers and stuff.

Why would you not post a link where i actually bought it? Wierd. Anyway, you are welcome to post here wish i had the same freedom on your thread.
You really shouldn't write more if that stuff here, everyone is getting tired of it even though I'm the one they hate lol quit taking my sunshine lol

Cool, way to weasel Brandon. Does your teeny tiny little Slow Stick have a Lithium Battery on it? Could your slow stick break a window if it hit one just right? Could the battery start a fire if it crashed? What else do you have to try and justify a stupid irresponsible action?
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:24 PM
  #225
brandon429
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Default RE: garage launch slowstick 12am

I'll answer as soon as you tell me if that could happen to a park flyer using a ss

Also, do you think i photoshopped my 4ft yagi still

Have you considered not kicking up the thread you hate?
You are welcome to not post anymore keep that mind too

You are the king of your out of context poll thread. why you post here is beyond me, but you haven't been well received here so a fresh start omitting core context from this thread was your best bet.

But back to the batteries, lets expose more hype.

So I've been using lipo for ground and flight work since about 03 or 4 iirc, whenever it was pretty new.

I puffed packs, smashed packs into the dirt with my gliders, swelled em like a plump lima bean and have never had a fire. Nearly every lipo user here has not seen a fire by one, yet you posted that as an argument.

Yes I've seen the online pics and you might see fires at events where multiple people with bad luck converge to make one, but if there are any solo flyers, not usually in groups just your equipment, the vast majority have not have ever seen a flame by lipo

You posted again off topic using an example of something I've never seen in the worst crashes.

Your park flyers can crash even right in front of you and start a grass fire, each of us on opposing sides keeps doing this and its extending my thread for the wrong reasons. Plus you are allowed to do it without having your posts edited, you got full support and this is how you use it? Dang

I want to find something so convenient i (we) can just walk out front and launch

This is v1

A compromise doesn't mean i ignore double standards for safety and privacy i see in your conduct methodologies, and it doesn't mean you fire up a gasser and launch off the sidewalk.

The comparison of the micro flyer is important to this thread, and its missing from your poll, because it miniaturizes, and to some marginalizes the ability to self pilot in a way that doesn't impact others.

I happen to not be a privacy hack with interchangeable standards so the filming privacy thing is a little too late debated in this society for me, but the safety issue is a big deal. One is a bother, one is physical so you are doing your community a misdeed by refusing to examine your hatred of a little camera and its inextricable tie to danger in the bulk of initial reactions here.

In order to gain buy in from the new generation, you all are going to have to assess and be able to discuss why you all have been integrated with toy grade rc right in your face but only care to claim danger now.
If its a privacy thing, don't intermix that with danger when danger can be remedied by downsizing the plane.

If you don't, people will write you off as flakes with double standards and a poor eye for antenna application.
A plane is always independently dangerous from its video capabilities, an ember is always an ember, my slow stick could be too big but that's easily fixed if needed.

The fact nobody will even discuss the safety dynamics of 40gm fpv even after repeated requesting, means new rc readers who may see my vids and be intrigued are also seeing their coaches speak like mad men about toys we all know are harmless

Most, but not all of you, are refusing to consider compromise and that's a great way to reduce participation in your community.

The statement "all rc flight around people and property" is an easy opt out of having to examine why we've already allowed it for tiny models but for the purposes of this thread its back to being dangerous, without explanation. You as rc flyers will assemble in gyms for foamy rc demonstrations, w kids,that's over people, there are countless examples

And don't give me a "we choose to expose ourselves to danger" blanket statement either, you all wouldn't take your kids somewhere dangerous to please your rc whims...unless you count rc shows with 200mph jet missles whizzing by.
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