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  1. #176
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: jester_s1

    I suppose it depends on if it's meant as an insult. Some people would equate it to a grown man going outside and playing with Tonka trucks. That would imply immaturity and a simple mind. To those people, I would explain that it's a hobby, every bit as demanding as many other things that men do for fun like hunting, golf, racing, woodworking, etc. But if it's meant as a joke then yes, I'm a little boy who goes out and spends all day playing with his toys!
    I'd bet most of us use model planes for amusement...they are fun things to play with. Frustrating sometimes when that danged engine just won't start but overall, FUN.....

    I'd bet some of us use model planes, particularly the building of same,for stress relief.

    Heck some of even use models creatively or educationally. That is, creating a new way of doingsome old part, creating new designs, creating art especially those of us who scratch build. Teaching youngsters to fly even something as simple as a chuck glider, has its own rewards. Teaching one's grandchildren how to trim a rubber powered model for longer, stableflights, has its own rewards

    So to me, are they toys? Yup....But much much more....

    And BTW if you asked my wife she would tell you that things around the house get fixed right the first time because of my involvement for 45 years with toy planes. But then again I learned back in the day when there was almost nothing in toy plane world premade. All of us long timers in the sport had to use the noodle or do without the toy
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  2. #177

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    My 5 year old grandson about to land his 42 inch toy RC plane. The kid has been flying indoor choppers sense he was 2 and on the sim long before that. A very understanding father and grandpapa.
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  3. #178

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg


    ORIGINAL: kiwibob72


    ORIGINAL: eagledancer

    was told that once at work. took my 1/3 gee bee to work put the wings on fired up that 3W 150 and told them to hold on while i took it up to full throttle. the biggest guy there could barely hold it! they dont call them toys anymore!!!!!
    Perception sure is a powerful tool is it not.

    What I take from your post (correct me if I'm wrong), is that they classed your models as ''toys'' up until the point they understood the true level at which you entertain yourself in the hobby. Thus the term 'toy' was associated to a lesser 'play' item, almost a 'joke' item, right up until to the point their perception of what you do was changed by them trying to hold onto your 1/3rd scale aircraft while under power (ie they realized that these are no mere child's toy!).
    My guess is that the term 'toy' had been dissolved through better understanding of what it is we model aircraft flyers actually have.

    Now for those of you that disagree with me, apply this principal to your next regulatory meeting where the term 'toy' is still in use, and that the general view is STILL that we are just playing around with our funny little aircraft. And when you possibly lose your field as a result of that incorrect public perception you decided not to change ...... well hey, what's in a word and the perception it helps create? ..... going by the above story and it's result, quite a bit apparently!

    PS - I have had the exact same thing happen to me at work before when I started flying helis, and again, once they understood just what I had, and how serious the level of model I had was, NEVER were my aircraft referred to as toys again.

    Being on a crusade to eliminate the word ''toy'' from the minds of folks who see you out there flying/playing with your 40% scale toy is neither going to make nor break your legal case when it comes right down to that.
    Give other's some more credit for having at least the brains they were born with.

    The reason I do find the term "toy" distasteful is that it aids in lessening the level at which this hobby is seen by the public, and degrades what we do. If you are happy to have a lesser view of this hobby out in the general public, then more power to ya - me, I'll chose to push this hobby in a way where we are seen positively by as many people as possible, and if that means choosing descriptive terms carefully, then that is what I will do!
    As for giving others credit, I'll continue to let others stand on their own merit, as I always do. We seem to forget at times that 'credit' and respect are things that should be earned, they are by no means a god given right.

    Back to the point, as for the level at which we operate in this hobby, never as a 5yo kid did i have to get a license attaining to my skill set level and general knowledge of the wooden plane I played with before I could run around my yard with it going "Weeeeeeeeee" ......... as that was just a toy aircraft - end of story.
    As an adult, I am required to sit a test as to demonstrate my knowledge of the electronic equipment in my aircraft, I am meant to have demonstrated proficiency skills in my ability to fly my RC model aircraft, as well as rules and regulations attaining to runway use etc etc, all before I can legally go and fly my model aircraft in a solo situation at my local club. I refuse to accept that these aircraft we fly are toys, as the use of "toys" by their owners are generally not governed so tightly.

    At the end of the day, we will all view our aircraft in differing ways, and odds on no-one will change their view regardless of how many posts the other side puts up, as our opinions are personal and they are strong with each of us. As one of the moderators said, I'm really amazed that this thread (as well as my own interest in it for that matter) has lasted so long, so after saying all I needed to say, I think I'll go and do something productive now.
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  4. #179

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    Ok I see why the Toy classification is being presumed..

    Ya need to fly ALL rc aircraft at an RC field, not at a housing development.. Because
    If folks get hurt with RC toys the Gov will step in to regulate yet another one of our activitys. No one whats that I hope..

    Fly at the feild please or find one to fly at.. If not, go somethere poeple are not at, and you dont have anything to crash into.

  5. #180
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: RCKen

    Over the last 10 years there are a few subjects that whenever they are brought up anywhere on RCU we can count on huge discussion that usually degrades into an all out battle. This subject isdefinitelyone of those subjects. It's amazing to me how some people can get so worked up about a simply discussion such as this. Come on guys, this stuff is supposed to be fun. This hobby is something that we should all enjoy, and not start attacking each other simply because we disagree on the use of a simply word.

    I've removed a couple of posts here because some members are trying to stir up trouble. this will not be allowed here. If you can't participate in this discussion without resorting to attacking those that you don't agree with then I would suggest that you simply refrain from entering into the discussion. It's just that simple. The choice is entirely up to you.

    Come on now, life's too short to get all worked up about a fun discussion like this. Let's all take a deep breath and remember why we enjoy this hobby.

    Ken
    What he said. I tried posting earlier and was refused. I'm checking to see if this particular moderator has not allowed me to post
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  6. #181
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    We can all agree to disagree, that fun too is it not?

    Bob
    Fly It Like You Stole It!!!

  7. #182
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: kiwibob72

    The reason I do find the term ''toy'' distasteful is that it aids in lessening the level at which this hobby is seen by the public, and degrades what we do. If you are happy to have a lesser view of this hobby out in the general public, then more power to ya - me, I'll chose to push this hobby in a way where we are seen positively by as many people as possible, and if that means choosing descriptive terms carefully, then that is what I will do!
    As for giving others credit, I'll continue to let others stand on their own merit, as I always do. We seem to forget at times that 'credit' and respect are things that should be earned, they are by no means a god given right.

    Back to the point, as for the level at which we operate in this hobby, never as a 5yo kid did i have to get a license attaining to my skill set level and general knowledge of the wooden plane I played with before I could run around my yard with it going ''Weeeeeeeeee'' ......... as that was just a toy aircraft - end of story.
    As an adult, I am required to sit a test as to demonstrate my knowledge of the electronic equipment in my aircraft, I am meant to have demonstrated proficiency skills in my ability to fly my RC model aircraft, as well as rules and regulations attaining to runway use etc etc, all before I can legally go and fly my model aircraft in a solo situation at my local club. I refuse to accept that these aircraft we fly are toys, as the use of ''toys'' by their owners are generally not governed so tightly.

    At the end of the day, we will all view our aircraft in differing ways, and odds on no-one will change their view regardless of how many posts the other side puts up, as our opinions are personal and they are strong with each of us. As one of the moderators said, I'm really amazed that this thread (as well as my own interest in it for that matter) has lasted so long, so after saying all I needed to say, I think I'll go and do something productive now.
    The use of the word, toy, as a blanket statement is missing the mark. A toy that is appropriate for a ten year old would not be appropriate for a two year old. The operative word here is, appropriate.

    Yes, they are toys, but are toys for big (and in some cases very big) boys.

    We need to all step back and realize that we are taking ourselves and our hobby way too seriously. Yep, I call them my toy airplanes, but yet I still scratch build them. I call my Street Rods toy cars too. They are what I play with. Get over yourself.

    Bill, Waco Brother #1
    Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

  8. #183

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    Earlier I posted that I thought my airplanes were toys...Well I still do but they are not " Billy Blast Off Toys" if you know what I mean...They are also a learning tool as well as a thearapheaudic device..They are and can be many things.. So I guess they are toys but they are also much more than toys ...Too bad they can't teach us how to get along with each other...One thing I know for sure , if we allow somebody to get under our skin with words we are showing them how to push our buttons and giving away our power...It might be better to ignore them ..They are jelous and can not understand how us immature Boys and Girls could be having so much fun playing with our planes that we probably won't let them touch espially their kids...We put a lot of time into building our planes and we have every rite to be proud of them. We cant expect the rest of the world to know that though...I think this is one of those thing where we need to take a deep breath relax and just let it go...
    Ken , Biker BC Cub Brother #6 Ultra Sport Brother # 100 Tiger Club # 7 Pulse Brother # 1 Sig Brother # 58 Top Flight Brother # 9

  9. #184

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

    My 5 year old grandson about to land his 42 inch toy RC plane. The kid has been flying indoor choppers sense he was 2 and on the sim long before that. A very understanding father and grandpapa.
    Way cool! Dang toy RC planes

  10. #185
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    ORIGINAL: MTK


    ORIGINAL: RCKen

    Over the last 10 years there are a few subjects that whenever they are brought up anywhere on RCU we can count on huge discussion that usually degrades into an all out battle. This subject isΒ*definitelyΒ*one of those subjects. It's amazing to me how some people can get so worked up about a simply discussion such as this. Come on guys, this stuff is supposed to be fun. This hobby is something that we should all enjoy, and not start attacking each other simply because we disagree on the use of a simply word.

    Β*
    I've removed a couple of posts here because some members are trying to stir up trouble. this will not be allowed here. If you can't participate in this discussion without resorting to attacking those that you don't agree with then I would suggest that you simply refrain from entering into the discussion. It's just that simple. The choice is entirely up to you.Β*

    Β*
    Come on now, life's too short to get all worked up about a fun discussion like this. Let's all take a deep breath and remember why we enjoy this hobby.Β*

    Β*
    Ken
    What he said. I tried posting earlier and was refused. I'm checking to see if this particular moderator has not allowed me to post

    MTK:

    As far as I know, nothing you posted was removed or edited. Please look again.

    CGr
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
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  11. #186

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: Luchnia


    ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

    My 5 year old grandson about to land his 42 inch toy RC plane. The kid has been flying indoor choppers sense he was 2 and on the sim long before that. A very understanding father and grandpapa.
    Way cool! Dang toy RC planes
    A few years back I posted some photos of him flying his RC indoor chopper in my house. he was trying to land it on the fan blades, {not running} and following it around the house. That was the first time I saw him fly one. Last year I took him out with the trainer and buddy box. First flight I had to take it a few times, second flight I only took it off and landed. He is the only one of the grand kids into planes, his younger brother is into RC cars though and flying the sim once in a while.
    Dad takes the time to teach him and allows him to do things I would have never done like using my computer before he was two years old. To keep him quiet all I ever had to do was give him a Tower magazine. He knew what all the things like servos were and what they did. Pays to have a father that takes the time to teach and help. I was his fixed wing coach but after he left my home he had to have a plane of his own. I'm building him a new Toy, a copy of the AeroWorks Extra 260E. I figurre he will be up for it sometime next summer?
    Now, if I could just get my son into building!!
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  12. #187
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    Good stuff, Gene. I love it when the kids get into the hobby.

    Dick.
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  13. #188

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    If not toys, what the heck are they?

    For some, their toys seem to be their biggest accomplishment in life, sad to hear.
    For others, since it is big, it is not a toy (what the heck!).
    Some claim that toys are only for little kids...
    Others say that since they can really hurt someone, they are not toys...
    Others defend stating that it takes incredible building skills, and nerves of steel fo fly the models (allow me to puke here)

    The truth is, they are toys, and we cannot wait to be able to go out and play with our toys, and with like-minded kids our age...

    And yes, in the clubs the majority are old farts. Just that some are younger old farts than others, but in the end, who cares, as long as we can play... with our toys.


    Gerry

  14. #189
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    I think that Stickbuilder hit the mark. What is good for a 10 year old is not necessarily good for a 2 year old. Both items may be toys, but what is appropriate for a 10 year old... well, you read what he posted, and it makes sense.

    No matter if you consider them toys or not, well, it just doesn't matter. It comes down to a personal opinion.

    In college, I had a professor that described "Opinion" and compared it to "anything else". "Opinion" is usually based on some fact. If there is no fact, then it becomes emotional response or someone's individual perception of what he/she thinks is opinion, but it is nothing but an emotional response or personal choice. Not that it is wrong, but it is not an opinion if it is not based on fact. It makes sense to me. So, where are the facts in this thread? [:-]

    Toys? Ok. Whatever you think is just fine, but don't call it an opinion because everything posted here is based on personal ideas of his or her perception of the hobby and the "tools" used. Oh no... did I say "tools"? [X(]

    (btw... this is not directed toward anyone in particular, but, in general, to the whole thread).

    Take it from there.

    CGr.

    PS: GerKonig : I resent the reference to "old farts". [:@] mainly cuz I'm one of 'em. But, hang in there.. you will be one sooner or later... [X(]
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
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  15. #190

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    I don't think of my planes as toys but I have been know to call them toys, it doesn't bother me when others call them toys. I usually state as I'm walking out the door that I'm going out to play. It's just not a big deal. My son has a 200K pre-runner he just calls his sand toy. That's all it is, another of his big boy toys. So far the grand son hasn't gotten to drive it but when my daughter was a young teenager I used to let her take my sand rail out to play. She and her young girl friend called it going out to troll for boys though. Hard to do at 13 and wearing full snow suites with a bandanna and goggles over there faces. Anyway, call them what you like and get over what others think of them. Not a lot of people really care, most people don't even know what RC planes are or do. Just not an issue.
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  16. #191
    RCU Forum Manager/Admin RCKen's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: CGRetired

    ORIGINAL: MTK


    ORIGINAL: RCKen

    Over the last 10 years there are a few subjects that whenever they are brought up anywhere on RCU we can count on huge discussion that usually degrades into an all out battle. This subject isdefinitelyone of those subjects. It's amazing to me how some people can get so worked up about a simply discussion such as this. Come on guys, this stuff is supposed to be fun. This hobby is something that we should all enjoy, and not start attacking each other simply because we disagree on the use of a simply word.

    I've removed a couple of posts here because some members are trying to stir up trouble. this will not be allowed here. If you can't participate in this discussion without resorting to attacking those that you don't agree with then I would suggest that you simply refrain from entering into the discussion. It's just that simple. The choice is entirely up to you.

    Come on now, life's too short to get all worked up about a fun discussion like this. Let's all take a deep breath and remember why we enjoy this hobby.

    Ken
    What he said. I tried posting earlier and was refused. I'm checking to see if this particular moderator has not allowed me to post

    MTK:

    As far as I know, nothing you posted was removed or edited. Please look again.

    CGr
    CGRetired is correct. I have removed several posts from this thread, but none of them were your posts. In addition, you are not being prevented from posting in any form or fashion.

    Ken

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  17. #192

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: CGRetired

    I think that Stickbuilder hit the mark. What is good for a 10 year old is not necessarily good for a 2 year old. Both items may be toys, but what is appropriate for a 10 year old... well, you read what he posted, and it makes sense.

    No matter if you consider them toys or not, well, it just doesn't matter. It comes down to a personal opinion.

    In college, I had a professor that described ''Opinion'' and compared it to ''anything else''. ''Opinion'' is usually based on some fact. If there is no fact, then it becomes emotional response or someone's individual perception of what he/she thinks is opinion, but it is nothing but an emotional response or personal choice. Not that it is wrong, but it is not an opinion if it is not based on fact. It makes sense to me. So, where are the facts in this thread? [:-]

    Toys? Ok. Whatever you think is just fine, but don't call it an opinion because everything posted here is based on personal ideas of his or her perception of the hobby and the ''tools'' used. Oh no... did I say ''tools''? [X(]

    (btw... this is not directed toward anyone in particular, but, in general, to the whole thread).

    Take it from there.

    CGr.

    PS: GerKonig : I resent the reference to ''old farts''. [:@] mainly cuz I'm one of 'em. But, hang in there.. you will be one sooner or later... [X(]

    Too late, I'm 62 so I guess I qualify also to be a card carrying member of the OF club:-) There is nothing wrong, after all, if you think about it, many people do not live enough to become a OF club member... Safe landings:-)

    Gerry

  18. #193

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    "A toy airplane is something you wind up, and it rolls along the floor....a 'model' airplane is something completely different !"(Hardy Kruger from Flight of the Phoenix)

    I feel that anything that takes six months or more to build surpasses the 'TOY' designation and falls into the 'work of art' or 'model' designation.

    Toy is a derrogative term used by people that just don't understand...poor things.

  19. #194

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    ORIGINAL: groovy67

    ''A toy airplane is something you wind up, and it rolls along the floor....a 'model' airplane is something completely different !''(Hardy Kruger from Flight of the Phoenix)

    I feel that anything that takes six months or more to build surpasses the 'TOY' designation and falls into the 'work of art' or 'model' designation.

    Toy is a derogative term used by people that just don't understand...poor things.
    I love the quote and remember it well. But my summer project was two of the same plane from plans, didn't take 6 months so Toys.
    My son now wants me to assemble a rather big Bipe ARF for him, a few weeks project so another Toy plane.
    Just kidding, I understand the point you are making.
    Perhaps it's just me with my over dry sense of humor, I call our planes toys all the time and it really does rile up a lot of people. I fly with ARF guys, most of the planes are big gassers and it really riles them up, I will have to use your definition on them, that should bring some smoke out of there ears. Under 6 months it's a toy, works for me!! Can't wait to use that line!
    Drinking and driving are illegal, why do bars have parking lots
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  20. #195

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    As Heinrich Dorfmann said in the original 1965 movie The Flight Of The Phoenix, "a toy airplane is something you wind-up and it rolls across the floor". "A model airplane shares the the same principles for flight as a real airplane".

  21. #196

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    ORIGINAL: groovy67

    ''A toy airplane is something you wind up, and it rolls along the floor....a 'model' airplane is something completely different !''(Hardy Kruger from Flight of the Phoenix)

    I feel that anything that takes six months or more to build surpasses the 'TOY' designation and falls into the 'work of art' or 'model' designation.

    Toy is a derrogative term used by people that just don't understand...poor things.

    Yeeeeppppp, you play with works of art at the field:-) Hilarious

    Gerry

  22. #197
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    Don't you think it's time we all just get back to building and flying our toys...

    Bob
    Fly It Like You Stole It!!!

  23. #198

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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    C'mon, admit it, You guys are just "toying" with each other!
    SIG Brotherhood # 3
    Mustang Brotherhood # 6
    Corsair Brotherhood # 86
    Kadet Brotherhood # 24
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/B-17e-...18159428244374

  24. #199
    lopflyers's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...

    Jet ski, go kart, BB guns, pleasure boats, race cars, para gliders are examples of very expensive toys. My model airplanes is another.
    They are my toys I play with them, and I enjoy it too.
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  25. #200
    JohnBuckner's Avatar
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    RE: R/C Airplanes are not toys...


    Heck Lopflyer planes and pleasure boats are even better

    John
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    \"Keep your controllines tight\"


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