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Thread: ethanol


  1. #51

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    RE: ethanol

    Well all I can say is that if seeing things for what they are rather than what I'm being TOLD they are makes me a conspiracy theorist I'll gladly keep my tin hat thanks LOL





    ORIGINAL: dirtybird


    ORIGINAL: warbird addict

    but yet the jist of the story is we the end user take it in the shorts , good for government BAD for us in every instance ethanol has been stated and proven a bad MODEL for us the end user and for the overall health of our economy which only serves to further reinforce my statement that E-10 was designed and enforced as a means to fatten the pockets of Big Government and Big Oil it's a win win situation for everyone but us the end user.
    Damn shame our own Gov't would flush the economy down the jon to serve it's own interests at our expense after all we just pay this nations bills not like we really enter into the picture and bear some consideration for our well being.
    Hate to be skeptical but it's been my experience having served in a combat zone that what's in the best interests of big gov't will get you killed and from what I've seen their philosphy is no different concerning the civilian sector, big gov't has and always will protect it's own survival ahead of and before yours and mine, been there done that and have the medals to prove it.
    I've been to the 10 story underground bunkers built to house, feed and insure the survival of big gov't and big gov't alone in the event of a disaster and I didn't see much if anything that showed any concern or provision for the rest of us, so believe only half of what you hear and only half of what you can prove and somewhere in the middle you might find the truth, the media !!!!!PHFFFTTT they are only as reliable as the information they are being FED which is totally biased and designed to feed you misinformation provided by propagandists who stand to benefit from your being gullable and willing to believe whatever you are told .
    You had better keep your tin hat on.
    Those trails you sometimes behind aircraft is actually big government spraying E10 to keep the price up.
    \"Q\" If you could have one super power what would it be?
    \"A\" The ability to leap tall blondes without them screaming

  2. #52
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    RE: ethanol

    Does that mean we won't be getting our free healthcare? LOL

    That's called sarcasm for those that don't know it!
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
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  3. #53
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    RE: ethanol

    OK, scrap the ethanol fuel "program" and redirect all that corn to food.
    What are the short term effects of doing that..?
    Corn prices drop below what is profitable for the farmers to operate. Some of the big, corporate farmers adapt, but the little guys suffer. I live where miles of corn is grown by "little guys" who look like they could use $10,000 worth of dental work and who drive old cars and live in run down farm houses. These are the guys who are barely able to support the local dairy and beef industry with what corn is worth. They work from sun up to sun down 365 days a year with huge expenditures and huge risk, yet they aren't getting rich. Last year's drought was the worst since before I was born, it was a historically bad year.
    OPEC fossil fuel suppliers seize the opportunity to "teach" us an object lesson for daring to escape from their stranglehold on our dependance to them within 5 minutes after we scrap the ethanol program.

    Long term effects of shutting down ethanol fuel.....
    I shouldn't need to explain any of this to those who have been reading along and who are "adult enough" to know that new technology rarely comes along to hit a grand slam on opening day. Any movement that is made away from fossil fuel must be able to obey the laws of economics for the long term. This is a sad fact, but that is the truth about what it takes for a revolutionary commoditiy like ethanol based fuel to reach full marketable and practical status. It is my understanding that subsidies for ethanol production expire this year. Subsidies have been given a bad name, but they have historically proven to be of value to modern, civilized society to inspire progress in the area of science and discovery.
    Brazil most likely had reached a point of economic desperation/ruin where fossil fuel costs reached an unliveable point in everyone's life for them to decide that ethanol based fuel was the way for them to go...?
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  4. #54

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    RE: ethanol

    E-10 is a wolf in sheeps clothing bottom line or you can choose to believe what the media tells you to believe you decide but when astronical amounts of money are involved don't believe for a second that the people who stand to make that money won't lie to you and tell you what you want to hear as they have a significant interest in your believing what they have to say and theres more to the story than what you are being told for obvious reasons known only to those who would have you believe it.
    I've had people tell me grand stories wildly fabricated and intricate to screw me out of 20 bucks do you think for even an instant somebody including our Gov't and big oil wouldn't screw you for billions? and lie to your face about it?
    Think again!!! The long con is getting you to believe they are acting in your best interest.
    \"Q\" If you could have one super power what would it be?
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    RE: ethanol

    To those who would advocate the use of E-10 ask yourself has it's mandated use positively affected their ability to heat their homes, fuel their vehicles or feed their families or grow their buisnesses/ savings for the future , has it become easier or harder to do those things are we as a nation prospering or failing economicly as a result of it?
    Has the world economy benefited from it ? not from what I'm seeing but then again I tend to be a realist and not a "blind conformist", no I generally tend to ask myslef why would somebody tell me this and whats in it for them and make up my own mind and where that much money is concerned in all cases you're going to be the one to take it in the shorts if you you believe what you are being TOLD to believe by those who would stand to profit from your believing it.
    Believe what you want but it all boils down to how month is left at the end of the money as to whether or not it's a good thing or a bad thing
    \"Q\" If you could have one super power what would it be?
    \"A\" The ability to leap tall blondes without them screaming

  6. #56
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    RE: ethanol

    Do you really think that a revolutionary alternative to burning gasoline should/could materialize out of thin air without some people getting rich off of it..?
    Yes or No
    Are you really blaming America's devolving family structure and values, lower education standards, loss of jobs to overseas workers, humongous tax burden to pay off/appease our welfare culture, increase law enforcement, etc. on E10..?
    Yes or No
    I own quite a few gasoline powered implements that only get seldom use and rarely have any trouble with them. I never use stabilizers and rarely do I ever experience stale fuel in any of them. You can smell it when it goes bad, it smells like varnish/shellac. Over the years I've had to de-gunk a couple carburetors and run fine music wire through some tiny passages...just like anyone before my time who has ever let gasoline powered equipment sit too long.
    This thread is timely because it reminds me to go fire up my tiller, leaf blower, weed eater, chain saw, lawn tractor, pressure washer, generator, farm tractor and an old truck I use 10-20 times a year.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

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    RE: ethanol

    There's another player in the ethanol game that is also making huge profit from it, bigM. I won't say there name because they'vewent after the little guymany times in the past.It's only possible to grow corn at the rate they do because of GMO corn.
    KaP2011
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  8. #58
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    RE: ethanol



    Ethanol works fine if your car is set up for it. So cars made after 2000 or so should be fine. However the cost and fuel millage make gasoline much better. I suspect the envrionmental issue for ethanol is a hoax as well.

    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  9. #59
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    RE: ethanol

    Yeah, I "spilled the beans" once at an AG forum about Monsanto's "terminal genetics" and they dispatched a flat black helicopter to my place that flew a grid pattern over my crops, dousing them with gamma rays and Agent Orange.......[8D]
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  10. #60
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    RE: ethanol

    Why does the BTU matter? Well consider the difference between gas and diesel fueled vehicles. All things being equal, a diesel powered vehicle gets about 30% more mileage per gallon of fuel. But the fuel only accounts for 14% more energy than gasoline. So why does the vehicle get more mpg with diesel? It's the compression ratio of a diesel engine vs the low compression of a gasoline engine. The higher compression an engine operates at, the higher the thermal efficiency.
    That is true. But also the higher the peak temperture the higher the efficiency. The higher compression raises the peak temperature which is another plus for high compression. BTW ethanol allows higher compression (than lower than 100 octane gas), but has a lower peak combustion temperature, thus less efficiency.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  11. #61
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    RE: ethanol

    Alky is here to stay
    Nothing is here to stay. I am expecting a huge energy revolution in a decade or so. We will be using electric motors without batteries someday.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  12. #62
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    RE: ethanol


    ORIGINAL: colmo-RCU

    It's on FOX,why would you believe anything Glen Beck's network tells you?

    He is no longer on Fox. At one time he was on CNN, so what does Fox have to do with this?
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  13. #63
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    RE: ethanol


    ORIGINAL: PLANE JIM

    I know if I put today's fuel in any of my motorcylces, boat or lawn equipment -it tends to screw them up and almost becomes granulated when I don't crank them up every month-just pulled carb off of my boy's honda 230 for the 2nd time in 6 months it was running lean and would not idle-clean carb and runs good again -I have tried using stabil and seafoam and it still tends to crud up every three-six months if not ran. The residue in the carb was flakey and granular it looked like old pieces of tite bond glue after it has dried

    I have been using E10 for about 20 years and just replaced my Honda HR21 about 3 years ago. I bought it in 1981. So buy good equipment made for the fuel and you won't have these problems. It sounds like you may need a fuel filter.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  14. #64
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    RE: ethanol


    ORIGINAL: okdreamin

    Hey guys, Recently visited the most respected small engine repair shop in town. He stated that over 90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now fuel related. He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs. Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol. He stated an easy test to see if your gas station actually has pure gas is. Use a cheap glass rain gauge. Put exactly one inch of water in it. put 3 inches of gas in it. wait 15 minutes. if the water level rises and fuel becomes cloudy your gas has ethanol in it.

    Hope this helps later

    Yeah, a lot of poor quality equipment is not made for ethanol. Buy Honda and the better Briggs and Stratton stuff and you haveno problems.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  15. #65
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    RE: ethanol


    ORIGINAL: TLH101


    ORIGINAL: okdreamin

    90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now fuel related. He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs. Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol.

    Hope this helps later
    This is exactly right. I am a small engine mechanic by trade and for the past 2 years, most of my work is fuel related. The ethanol absorbs water, then settles out of the gas. You end up with water/ethanol mix, that turns to a jelly, at the bottom of the float bowl, or tank and low octane fuel on top. The water causes corrosion and the jelly stops up jets. About half the time, I can just flush out the fuel system, and save everything, but the other half is replacement, as the corrosion clogs the passages (especially on the newer EPA lean burning motors), and they cannot be cleaned. The diapram carbs can almost never be saved anymore.
    Here are few pics of what I see on a daily basis. The white balls are ethanol "jelly".

    If you buy equipment with good seals and gas caps, to include the gas can,this won't happen. For equipment with vented caps, put some tape on the vent before storing. That is where the water is getting in, especially on the cheaper equipment.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  16. #66
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    RE: ethanol

    Why not grow cotton instead of corn? Or wheat, flax, strawberries, etc.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  17. #67
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    RE: ethanol

    [link]http://rtec-rtp.org/2012/10/16/the-high-compression-gambit/[/link]

    This article goes into what it takes to optimize an engine for alky based fuel.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

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    RE: ethanol


    ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


    ORIGINAL: okdreamin

    Hey guys,Β* Recently visited the most respected small engine repair shop in town.Β* He stated that over 90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now Β*fuel related.Β* He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs.Β* Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol.Β* He stated an easy test to see if your gas station actually has pure gas is.Β*Β* Use a cheap glass rain gauge.Β*Β*Β* Put exactly one inch of water in it.Β* put 3 inches of gas in it.Β* wait 15 minutes.Β* if the water level rises and fuel becomes cloudy your gas has ethanol in it.Β*

    Hope this helpsΒ*Β*Β*Β* later

    Yeah, a lot of poor quality equipment is not made for ethanol.Β* Buy Honda and the better Briggs and Stratton stuff and you haveΒ*no problems.

    Abso;utely,
    RC Aircraft/ Three Laws Safe.

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    RE: ethanol

    Interesting article CP.

    MIT has a professor that has done some work on direct injection of ethanol in high compression engines to prevent knocking at high compression. Ford has been working with him on the technology.

    I have also noticed that the Honda Fit has a long stroke engine, 73 mm bore and 89.4 mm stroke which goes against the last 60 years of automobile engine design. That should get the last little bit of thermo energy out of fuel with the extra expansion of gases.
    - Supplementary insipid innocuous inane vacuous proclamation

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    RE: ethanol

    I've always bought my gas for my planes from  I think it's time I start buying all my gas from now on from them. 

  21. #71
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    RE: ethanol

    It's pretty amazing to see what design engineers are able to come up with today with all the rapid prototyping equipment and decades worth of solid knowledge to launch new ideas. The need for camshafts, massive valves and other engine driven components that require wasted HP to actuate will go bye-bye someday. HP wasting cooling of present day cast iron and cast aluminum parts will get phased out eventually with higher temp materials.
    The long and skinny cylinder makes sense for high compression. You can fire it sooner giving the expanding gases more time to exert a more steady push against the piston and more time to complete the combustion process with less unburned gas getting farted out the exhaust.
    Engine dynamicists would need to know the practical limits of extreme rod / stroke ratios and how to cope with any longevity issues.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

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    RE: ethanol

    ORIGINAL: combatpigg

    Yeah, I "spilled the beans" once at an AG forum about Monsanto's "terminal genetics" and they dispatched a flat black helicopter to my place that flew a grid pattern over my crops, dousing them with gamma rays and Agent Orange.......[8D]
    Oooooo, you said the M word, you gonna be in trouble now.
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  23. #73

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    RE: ethanol


    Revolutionary alternative to burning gasoline ?????? No I think it's a revolutionary way for Big Gov't and Big OIL to lie to us about the REAL reason for our having to burn this garbage.
    I'm in agreement with you in the matter of welfare and other such handouts , however The piss poor decisions that our Gov't makes which only serve to further make our dollar weaker and our day to day survival more and more expensive so much so that there has been a very distinct degredation in class standing wherein the former lower middle class have become sub poverty level and very much in need of such handouts to survive as well there are those and many of them who take absolute advantage of them, but I've also seen and witnessed a major influx of foreign nationals imported by our own Gov't namely Somalians who are handed EVERYTHING, food ,housing, utilities, transportation, multi trillion dollar complexes built for them, which only further drives up we the taxpayers burden ,so lets not blame it all on our LAZY'S that don't want to work, the economy is such that hiring is down and buisness closures and layoffs are up, mortgages are failing, banks and auto mfgrs "the backbone our industry" are failing and yet Big Gov"t devises yet another "SCHEME" designed to take yet more of our money by handing us E-10 which has proven to do nothing more than further drive up our day to day cost of living across the board,"POPULAR OPINION" and it has been clearly advocated by "SOME" naive people that E-10 is a means to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil ? BY FORCING us to make yet even more trips to the pump by writing into law that we pollute our fuel with something that makes us burn 25% more of it.
    In the 60's a man invented a gasoline vapor system that would drive a 4200 pound vehicle over 100 miles on a gallon of gas, the technology was bought and buried by Shell oil co.
    That man followed up and became very vocal in the media about why his technology wasn't being developed and marketed by Shell oil co. , he was later found dead in his car beside the road of mysterious causes
    The very same technology was picked up by another man and improved upon in the 70's when he went public with it, "He was told told shut his mouth and play along or his and his families safety couldn't be guaranteed and this was told to him by a public official only after it was obvious that he and his family were being closely watched by obviously Gov't pepole in an obviously gov't vehicle did he strip the vehicle of it's revolutionary fuel saving technology and sold it did he finally get left alone , in the videotaped interview he stated very clearly that it was in fact the Gov't that was watching him and he was very definitely scared for his and his families welfare, my point is if this technology existed as far back as the 60's where they were able to get over 100 mpg then why is it that we are now being sold a "BILL OF GOODS" that has us forced to use something that nets us less than 12 MPG in the same basic V-8 engine? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ maybe!!!!!! yeh that sounds like a much better explanation to me than all of the other sheeple believe everything they are Told explanations I've been offered so far , hey everybody is entitled to believe what they want, but unless you do some real digging your making a half informed decision on what to believe, it's been my experience that "POPULAR OPINION " and the easy explanation are never the way to bet your future.





    ORIGINAL: combatpigg

    Do you really think that a revolutionary alternative to burning gasoline should/could materialize out of thin air without some people getting rich off of it..?
    Yes or No
    Are you really blaming America's devolving family structure and values, lower education standards, loss of jobs to overseas workers, humongous tax burden to pay off/appease our welfare culture, increase law enforcement, etc. on E10..?
    Yes or No
    I own quite a few gasoline powered implements that only get seldom use and rarely have any trouble with them. I never use stabilizers and rarely do I ever experience stale fuel in any of them. You can smell it when it goes bad, it smells like varnish/shellac. Over the years I've had to de-gunk a couple carburetors and run fine music wire through some tiny passages...just like anyone before my time who has ever let gasoline powered equipment sit too long.
    This thread is timely because it reminds me to go fire up my tiller, leaf blower, weed eater, chain saw, lawn tractor, pressure washer, generator, farm tractor and an old truck I use 10-20 times a year.
    \"Q\" If you could have one super power what would it be?
    \"A\" The ability to leap tall blondes without them screaming

  24. #74

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    RE: ethanol

    There is a good reason for GMO corn. It allows plants to tollerate drought better, kill some pests without having to use pestasides that would kill good insects, and adapt better to different soil types and climates. Without that and chemical fertilizers, the world's population would have topped out at about 2 billion, mostly starving people. Fortunately a German chemist (Fritz Haber) learned how to make NH3 (anydrous ammonia), and Carl Bosch figured out how to make it at a industrial scale. about a century ago. Of course all that German ability with chemistry also helped them make nitrates for explosives and later chemical weapons.

    NH3 is made from natural gas (CH4), since that is an easy source of hydrogen. I think NH3 could also be the solution to the Hydrogen Society, as it is easy to store as a liquid, and is transported by pipe underground in our existing infrastucture. It also contains 50% more hydrogen than H2, so only a fuel cell that works with NH3 is the only thing keeping electric cars off the road. Battery technology will never get there to supplant liquid fuels. There was even a pickup truck that was set up to run on a mixture of gasoline and NH3 vapor by a university a couple of years ago.
    - Supplementary insipid innocuous inane vacuous proclamation

  25. #75
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    RE: ethanol

    I think almost everbody knows someone who claims...

    ...to have been decorated with a bunch of medals..
    ...to have seen guys on guard duty routinely put .45s to their head, then pull the trigger
    ...to have owned 190 mph, 190 hp motor bikes but for some reason forget why they sold isuch epic machinery just 3 years earlier.
    ...to have been called by a motorcycle dealer to drop everything and try to talk a 18 year old kid's father out of buying him a 190 mph bike for him..because the father kept calling it a "toy" and that it was undoubtedly a "death sentence" that the dealer had no power to stop on his own.
    ...to have the inside scoop on how the inventor of the 100 mpg engine was murdered by "Big Oil".
    Sorry Guy, but there's a definite "credibility gap" forming here.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???


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