The Clubhouse If it doesn't fit in any other category and is about general RC stuff then post it here at the Clubhouse.

Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Reply
Old 05-28-2013, 12:33 AM
  #1
Discharger
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 42
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Our field was established many years ago when we were in a rural part of Western Australia with no near neighbours or houses. It was also a time when models were not that big and engines were smaller. Today we have a membership of over 130, many with large aircraft of all types including turbines. However, we now have suburbia encroaching with houses and workplaces nearby. Aircraft noise and overflying of boundaries by some members even with rules in place are now becoming a problem to our neighbours and will ultimately impact on our club from the local council. We don't want to lose our field for flying and we do want to be good neighbours as well.
This must be a familiar scenario for many clubs and flyers especially in Europe and the USA? Moving on is not an attractive proposition as suitable flying sites are difficult to get and we have a well established field that we own with recently upgraded infrastructure.
I would be interested to know how other clubs have dealt with similar problems. Do we go all electric and ban jets and large gas two strokes? Maybe put a limit on aircraft size? Trouble!

Aside, how many clubs have gone to exclusively 2.4GHz radio systems for safety reasons?
Discharger is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 02:37 AM
  #2
bogbeagle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: York, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,296
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

1 ... Go electric, ban jets and noisy engines.

2 ... Watch membership collapse.



It's a conundrum; you are discovering that, in a democratic system, you have NO property rights.

Meanwhile, I expect that you'll have to re-locate. Anything else will be just a "sticking plaster".






Who is to say that your 2.4 is safer than my 35? Let's be honest, any sort of radio failure is vanishingly rare ... has been for a couple of decades... it can nearly always be traced back to the operator.
bogbeagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 04:22 AM
  #3
Edwin
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Leander, TX
Posts: 6,202
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

We may be going through that scenario pretty soon. A cow pasture is about to become a subdivision and many of us with big planes fly over it. I suspect with in 4 or 5 years I'll be looking for a new place to fly.
Edwin
Edwin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 05:06 AM
  #4
bogbeagle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: York, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,296
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

If you can see it coming, then you might be as well to begin preparations.

I would dearly love to form a Limited Company ... with a share issue ... for the purpose of buying a flying field.




Let's imagine that you find a field, costing £100, 000.

Issue say 100 shares, if there is enough enthusiasm.

A member might sell his share for a profit, if someone is desperate to join the club. Alternatively, the members could issue more shares ... knowing that each new share devalues the existing shares. (the equivalent to quantitive easing)

Most of the land could be sub-let to agriculture and a small dividend paid, if you are lucky.

Anyway, you get the idea.


I did try it, once, when land was comparatively cheap; but I couldn't get the interest from the club' members. In fact, the club' committee actively opposed the idea ... possibly because they could see that their authority would be destroyed by a system of direct ownership. I mean, if I own a bit of land, I'm not going to be told how to use that land by some uppity model-flyer, pretending that he's a "chairman".

bogbeagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 05:57 AM
  #5
Discharger
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 42
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

We already own the land and have done so for 25 years. Unfortunately this doesn't give us the legal right to do as we please.We still have to abide by the law and respect other people's rights as well.
Discharger is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 09:21 AM
  #6
red head
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Zephyrhills, FL
Posts: 2,026
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

I hate to say it but it's all fact, you are going to have to do some limiting and I would suggest that you not wait. I've been around a lot of clubs / fields here in the states that have gone through the same thing and the ones that fool around waiting for something to happen are the ones that loose big time.

Again I hate to say it but the first step is limiting / banning the use of jets and large noise makers. I'm a noise maker but have enough sense to know when I'm part of the problem and when to step back .

The next step is to restrict the smaller ( quieter ) planes to certain areas & times to fly ( no early mornings or late evenings what ever is needed ) and FOR SURE NO flying over or close to structures etc.

If you follow these steps in that order a bit at a time you just might be able to keep some of the flying for a few years ( mostly electrics ) and have enough time to find an area where all of you will be able to fly together again. BAD phrase : Work for the better good .

It's really hard to put restrictions on things like a field but if you want to continue flying, you better get restrictive because the public doesn't give a hoot about you and it only takes ONE person to get you restricted completely before you get a chance to get a plan in order. I know I've been there a few times and could tell you some weird stories.

GOOD LUCK and keep us informed, what you do may help someone else . ENJOY !!! RED
red head is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 10:46 AM
  #7
carrellh
 
carrellh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 6,544
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Discharger
Aircraft noise and overflying of boundaries by some members even with rules in place are now becoming a problem to our neighbours and will ultimately impact on our club from the local council. We don't want to lose our field for flying and we do want to be good neighbours as well.
First, deal with the rule breakers. They are the ones who will anger the neighbors.
Actively invite the neighbors to see that responsible flying is not a danger to them.
carrellh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 06:08 PM
  #8
Minnreefer
 
Minnreefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plymouth, MN
Posts: 1,235
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

A few things that I thought of: As stated above, try to limit times for the "worst" aircraft, try to be as neighborly as possible, invite them out, try to get the kids involved, if the kids are happy, then the mothers are happy, and everyone knows, the wives run things Would it be possible to buy more land adjacent to your field, so you have a bit more of a cushion?

Good luck
Minnreefer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 06:17 PM
  #9
Redback
 
Redback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: GraftonNew South Wales, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,289
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Mate, just start a rumour that the club is going to sell the land for "affordable housing".

You'll get the neighbours begging you to stay!!!

Terry
Redback is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 08:07 PM
  #10
bogbeagle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: York, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,296
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Redback

Mate, just start a rumour that the club is going to sell the land for ''affordable housing''.

You'll get the neighbours begging you to stay!!!

Terry


Great idea.

Make it known that you intend to sell it to "the travelling community" ... I suppose you have one.




Honestly, it's the old negotiating tactic ... First you tell 'em that a thousand men will be laid off work; and there's an uproar. Then, you say that you managed to save 800 jobs and you only need to lay off 200. Most breathe a sigh of relief and the industrial action runs out of steam. The 800 are only too glad to abandon their support of the 200 unfortunates. Of course, you only wanted to lay off 200, right from the start.
bogbeagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:42 AM
  #11
jester_s1
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,284
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Funny you mention the traveling community Bob. We have the "Irish travelers" in Texas who are known as the most dishonest, annoying, most pitiful excuses for human beings that ever lived (much the same way that the Irish have always been viewed . They are wealthy from numerous criminal enterprises, and so they've been settling down in middle class suburbs paying cash for their houses. A really great way to be sure that none of your neighbors will ever talk to you again is to sell your house to one of them.

For the OP, if you will be overflying people's houses, you'll have no choice but to move. Doing some community relations (a heavily publicized air show for the public, training nights with free buddy box flights, taking part in any community event with demo flights or show and tells) will help delay the inevitable, but you can't get away from it. It sucks, but we've chosen a hobby that isn't civilization friendly. Those community outreach projects could help you with that project too though. As you are talking to more and more people about the flying site and need for a new location, every once in a while you get lucky and meet someone who knows of a place.
jester_s1 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:58 AM
  #12
eddieC
 
eddieC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,102
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field



" A really great way to be sure that none of your neighbors will ever talk to you again is to sell your house to one of them. "



Lol. If you sell your house to travelers though, you'd then move and wouldn't have to worry about the old neighbors talking to you - you'd have new neighbors! 

eddieC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 04:16 PM
  #13
bjr_93tz
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ToowoombaQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 897
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Register each aircraft as a dog with the council, then rename the club as an obedience school and you can make all the noise you want anytime of the day or night.

Seriously though, I wonder if approaching the council to develop some guidelines would be a good start. The complaints process usually starts with the council (unless sombody wakes up in a hugely foul mood and decides to ring the police first off the bat) so having sombody in there that knows what you do and is already a little bit on your side could give your club time to address (or be seen to address) any complaints?

bjr_93tz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 11:12 PM
  #14
Discharger
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 42
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

We've been there for 25 years and the local council approved our land for model aero flying a long time ago. The problems are, over the years in addition to houses being built nearby, our models have increased in size with big petrol (gas) engines and turbines. Some members have models approaching half size. I understand in some parts of the world such as USA and Europe where some clubs have had similar problems, they have been forced to go all electric and ban jets altogether. This may well be what we might have to do as well as limiting wingspan as moving to another site in my opinion is not a practical solution. No doubt this would be the subject of much angst for some but could sit well with others! Of course we do have rules relating to overflying and noise emissions but it just takes one or two rouge members to ignore the rules and all hell breaks out which could cause us to lose the right to fly on our land.
Discharger is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 06:22 AM
  #15
jester_s1
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,284
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

If that's the case you make rigid rules and enforce them internally.
jester_s1 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 11:44 AM
  #16
049flyer
 
049flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 1,026
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

You are lucky you own your own field. If you were renters you would be up the proverbial creek without a method of propulsion.

Sounds like your land may have appreciated in value since you purchased it. Is it possible to sell it for enough money to allow purchasing a new field futher out? You may make enough to improve the new field too. Figure what you need and place your property up for sale. You might get lucky with a developer.

You might also approach the city. Maybe you can trade your field for anothet bit of land the city owns but can't use for some reason. Your field may be the ideal location for a school or park. Might be easier to get city and homeowner support BEFORE the field becomes a problem.

You might get lucky and end up with a better field than you have now.
049flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 01:34 AM
  #17
bjr_93tz
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ToowoombaQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 897
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Hi Discharger, my brother flies at SWARMS at Capel.

He mentioned a complaint he received once from a neighbour when quite a number of IMAC planes were performing rolling circles over his house. Google Earth put the house about 1.1km from the pilots area and over the other side of a dual lane divided highway. I think the larger planes make it a bit too easy to fly way further out than is reasonable and people are unaware of it. At our recent F3A comp in Toowoomba some guys were flying out over 230m with 2M ships which is beyond a joke. One day I pushed my baseline out over 250 metres and still .40 sized trainers were drifting into my airspace even up near my topline?????

I'm not sure how much area you have but even a 40% IMAC ship can happily fly in a typical F3A box as long as the pilot knows how to use the throttle.

I understand the need to be proactive but I'd hate to have to ban certain plane types because members couldn't curb bad flying practices, but whatever you have to do to ensure the field stays available then I guess it needs to be done.
bjr_93tz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 12:53 PM
  #18
Charlie P.
 
Charlie P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Crane, NY
Posts: 5,088
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Encroaching suburbia & the flying field

Our field was an old WWI training field that became a civil field in the 20's and is still a dual-runway grass strip. What used to be river flat corn fields is now surroundedon three sides by suburbs and developments. It's likely going to come to pass that the "powers that be" close down the field. Several years ago a friend lost power on take-off and deliberately augeredhis Rockwell Commander in hard in a large yard rather than hit one of the house lined streets just ahead. Killed himself and his wife died six months later. Several years before that a J-3 came down with a crunch (I lived a mile from the field) and I heard the unmistakable sounds while out riding my bike. That one the plane was wreckedbut the pilot had "only" a broken jaw. So far the neighbors havebeen tolerant - most I know of think it's a defining feature of the neighborhood - knownfor the airfield and the large-scale RC club that holds an annual event open to the public (as an audience).

Noise is not a factor - a glow or gas engine is no worse than a lawnmower, leaf-blower or weed trimmer (same engine in many cases for the latter two!) Just don't run them before 9:00AM (noon on Sunday) or after sunset. We do now allow electrics during daylight hours provided they are relatively quiet - and that is self determined.

Through no fault of the field or pilots urbania has tightened the noose. We are very careful, very self policing. Here in The Clubhouse forum it is obvious some would consider us a harsh club when it comes to restrictions. You bet. If taking out someone's picture window or the fabric wing of a parked "real" aircraft with a lost R/Cbird is what you need for fun and relaxation we'd rather you joined another club.

Sad to say it is not necessarily the majority that rules. It can be a vocal minority who gets in the face of the local city council or town trustees who get their way. And if they convince a property owner of a financial liability risk - watch out. We carry a policy for our model flying with the landlord named in the coverage. Likely other AMA clubs do the same where there is a lease arrangement. We also donate a large portion of our annual event take to a local charity. The first step to keeping your field is covering your arse and involving the local community instead of battling them.
Charlie P. is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:23 PM.