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Joe Nall Incident

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Old 06-09-2013, 06:22 PM
  #101
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: on_your_six

I have done more than talk a good game, I have paid in the past for damages that I caused. Capt1597 you and your attitude are welcome to fly with me anytime.
Ditto!
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:21 PM
  #102
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: capt1597

if my plane rolled and hit another because of dumb thumbs i would pay for the other plane! if my plane rolled and hit another because of equipment failing i would pay for the other plane!
i feel that i am responsible for my actions that do harm. but that's just me. i know lots of people that think they are above responsibility especially when it means that they have to take cash out of their pocket. life is choices. i prefer my choices. but that's just me.

me, i would never ask another that had flown into my plane and hurt it to pay. i would expect them to offer but if they did not i would not ask or hound them to pay but i would not have much regard for them in the future.

lots and lots and lots of people can come up with endless excuses as to why they should not have to pay out their cash to cover their actions. worlds full of them and they will endlessly jabber their justification, who cares. but that's just me

''it's the spotters fault'' now this is a new low!

just my two cents, but thats just me!

happy flying, capt
I agree, IF it was actually the futaba pilot's fault he should have offered to pay but you can't expect that, as it is a risk you take when flying with others and you can't force him to do the right thing. That's why the p-47 pilot needs to get over it for his own good, you can't change what happened or what someone else did and hanging on to it won't help anything or anyone.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:26 PM
  #103
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It's kinda funny how threads like this take off based on pure speculation, all this is based off of is what the guy that lost the $3,000 airplane said and members get in fights over it, we should probably hold our strong opinions until we see a video or have more witnesses chime in.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:37 PM
  #104
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At practice, or at the race in Nascar or Formula Racing, has anyone seen teams pay for the damage their driver caused to another teams car ? They all have spotters, plus direct communication.

Crank
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:15 PM
  #105
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Am I the only one here who thinks that spotters trying to coach a pilot away from a potential mid-air would probably end up causing as many as they avoid? I want my spotter informing me of other traffic but not telling me to "pull up" or "turn left" or similar. The spotter has the same hurdles with depth perception that everyone else does and even if they didn't things happen way too fast for them to identify a potential mid-air, decide what corrective action is necessary, and then relay that to the pilot. I think many of you are putting waaaaay too much faith in spotters. My .02 cents of course.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:04 PM
  #106
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

FORMATION??? It is only the OP's opinion and it seems to be wrong. A disinterested third party witness (and mod here) didn't say that's what the "team" pilot was trying to do. The 'team' pilot was quoted "BAM!" didn't know what happened. He obviously wasn't aware he was near the P47.
It's very rare to be able to assign blame in a mid-air. Somebody has to be doing something really stupid and even then we assume the risk stupid people pose in everything we do, not just flying toy airplanes.

The only problem I ever had with a mid-air wasn't with the other pilot, we just nodded and shrugged to each other. We weren't happy but not mad at each other. The problems came later from his "friends" who were loudly proclaiming how I "flew right thru him".
Funny thing, "friends".
Eric
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:51 PM
  #107
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Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose. 

How can one bury $3K in a TF kit? Seems quite high to me. 
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:59 AM
  #108
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: crankpin
At practice, or at the race in Nascar or Formula Racing, has anyone seen teams pay for the damage their driver caused to another teams car ? They all have spotters, plus direct communication.
Crank
The first words from the Clerk of the Course's mouth at the riders briefing during my road racing days:

Motorcycle racing is dangerous,
You may be injured or killed,
Your machinery and equipment may be damaged or destroyed,
You understand that others may ride dangerously and or with lack of skill,
By participating you accept the track and its condition with all faults either hidden or exposed......

The rest tended to be waffle about flag colours and what not. I guess being taken out by somebody and not punching them in the head (even after they've removed their helmet) is what good sportmenship is all about.

Imagine the pilots briefing:
Flying toy airplanes is a hobby,
Your ego may be hurt or your p@nties bunched,
Your toy airplane may be realigned or rekitted,
You understand the man flying next to you could be an idiot and his spotter is posing for the crowd and not spotting,
By participating you understand the ground, planes and other solid objects can move into your flightpath at any time and without warning.....
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:09 AM
  #109
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???? So flying the pattern at an event is the same as racing? With risk comes reward, what is the reward?? This comparison to racing is ludicrous. I can accept risk, unless there is some bone-headed negligence. Same with people flying known BAD equipment. If you do stupid things or fly dangerous aircraft, expect people to get on your case about it. Pilots flying formation need to plan before flying and communicate.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: crankpin
At practice, or at the race in Nascar or Formula Racing, has anyone seen teams pay for the damage their driver caused to another teams car ? They all have spotters, plus direct communication.
Crank
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:06 AM
  #110
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

These things are unfortunate but they do happen from time to time because we don't live in a perfect world. I think he will have better chances of seeing god then getting someone to pay for this little mishap. My best advice is to just let it go.... $3000.00 is just a drop in the bucket and certainly not worth loosing sleep over.

Bob
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:27 AM
  #111
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: on_your_six

???? So flying the pattern at an event is the same as racing? With risk comes reward, what is the reward?? This comparison to racing is ludicrous. I can accept risk, unless there is some bone-headed negligence. Same with people flying known BAD equipment. If you do stupid things or fly dangerous aircraft, expect people to get on your case about it. Pilots flying formation need to plan before flying and communicate.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: crankpin
At practice, or at the race in Nascar or Formula Racing, has anyone seen teams pay for the damage their driver caused to another teams car ? They all have spotters, plus direct communication.
Crank
Flying at an event as large as Joe Nall makes the racing analogy even more valid.
When you add in the 3-dimensional nature of flying, and the depth-perception problem of remote piloting,
and wind gusts, etc., EXPECTING a mid-air NOT to happen is ludicrous.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:43 AM
  #112
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


Quote:
ORIGINAL: on_your_six

???? So flying the pattern at an event is the same as racing? With risk comes reward, what is the reward?? This comparison to racing is ludicrous. I can accept risk, unless there is some bone-headed negligence. Same with people flying known BAD equipment.
"bone-headed negligence" to one is completely logical and acceptable behavior to another. Just like $3,000.00 is more than one modeler can afford to spend on a plane and to another it is a drop in the bucket. THAT is why I ASSUME there is going to be bone-headed negligence at every event, and every time I go to the field (based on my personal experience!). I can then assess whether I want to assume the risk of flying.

Quote:
Motorcycle racing is dangerous,
You may be injured or killed,
Your machinery and equipment may be damaged or destroyed,
You understand that others may ride dangerously and or with lack of skill,
By participating you accept the track and its condition with all faults either hidden or exposed......
I think I will incorporate some form of this into the morning pilots' meetings at our events from now on! Pretty much eliminates tools from getting their panties in a wad if someone, "does them wrong."

Regards,

Astro

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Old 06-10-2013, 04:51 AM
  #113
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

I did get word back from SKS that they did NOT in fact capture the crash on video.

This all reminds me of watching a play that a ref blew the call on ESPN the next day as they examine the video frame by frame in slow motion while the poor guy with the whistle had about a nano second to make a call.

Please picture that this happened at the main flight line at Joe Nall at 2 in the afternoon on Thursday, a very busy day. There's a lot going on, several planes in the air, people walking between the flight stations directing ground operations, spotters, photographers etc. Even good spotters can't see everything and I'm not naming names but the Futaba guy had a very qualified spotter.

I'm a very experienced pilot, I do a lot of test flying for other folks, kit reviews, club instructor etc. I would have been nervous flying in that environment, in fact, most of the flying I did was down at the 3D line in the early morning because I was nervous and the place was packed. Frankly I'm surprised there wasn't more carnage than there was....

If anyone is interested, he's my Nall album..
[link=https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10201149218634578.1073741831.1293147632&type=1&l=8dc738a263]Joe Nall 2013[/link]
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:16 AM
  #114
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Very cool pics. Thanks for sharing that album!
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:32 AM
  #115
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

1200+ pilots...probably close to 3,000 aircraft and heli's in attendance...flying on Thursday afternoon and someone is upset that they had a mid air?

I'll tell you who's fault it is...it's the owner of the P-47 for flying Thursday afternoon.

That's just the way it is...he should have known better. On Thursday and Friday the Crazy Train arrives early and it's full on all day long. I won't fly during those times and I've been to the Nall a lot and probably at least have the skills that would be considered above average. Nope...no way...nothing bigger than a foamie during those times.

Beave
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:46 AM
  #116
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Hey, mister moderator just in case you forgot.

Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post. We encourage the free flow of your ideas, but believe that they can be communicated (and received) much more effectively if you keep things civil. If you have to vent, take it offline. We carefully monitor posts and will ban individuals who engage in offensive conduct within the forums. Thanks. (RCU Policies)

Funny how these rules are so randomly applied.

Threating pm's, SHOUTING, ugly comments, quasi disguised cursing, time to shut this one down. I've seen better behavior by sharks in a school of tuna. I'm not sure what the OP was looking for but I doubt he found it here, and more than likely was just trying to start something. Neither the other pilot, Hobbico, or Futaba is going to be shamed into paying for this accident (and that is all it was), everything else is just speculation. They go up in one piece and theymay come down in many, and since few crashs result in a complete loss ofall equipment the pilots involved most likely will be able to reuse most of the equipment.I've lost planes and all of them hurt but it is a fact of this hobby and if it get's to the point where i can't except that accidents happen without having to blame someone or something then it is time to quit. Ijust met a guy this weekend who used to fly pattern and judge it. He had a battery failure once and the plane crashed at high speed,very close to the pits and it so scared him that someone could have been hurt that he quit flying for good and sold all of his stuff.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:09 AM
  #117
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

If that's directed at me, my name is Andy, not Mr Moderator, and I don't moderate this section. If you feel a post is out of line click the REPORT button and someone assigned to this area will evaluate it. Also, we don't normally moderate threads we participate in, here I'm just a member with an opinion. It certainly doesn't look good if a moderator decided to win an argument by deleting posts or closing a thread so a Community Moderator or Forum Manager would always moderate the thread in that case.

If you're receiving threatening PM's, or PMs you feel violate our community standards, you can forward the PM to RCKen our Forum Manager for further action, as I assure you, if objectively looking at it someone is sending you threats, it won't be tolerated.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:33 AM
  #118
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so it was the ARF TF ?

at least it wasn't a zirrol or from plans built .. he can get back up in the air ...


i wonder if the nascar guys have the same type of idea's like do they want the other team's to pay for their car's repairs or it is just part of the game,,

man think how ex*****ve it would be to race against Danica you'd be geting billed from her body shop for sure !!! and that is one busy Body shop .. I don't think they get weekends off any more !!
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:34 AM
  #119
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and i like you guys are telling andey to do his jOB don't let him Slack give it to that guy !!

he's been to busy flying guilders and puting cubs on floats he needs to be at his computer . monitering shanggains !!!!
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:50 AM
  #120
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Ok guys, this is getting a bit out of control. The insults and attacks on each other are totally out of line and will not be tolerated in the forums. If you can't participate in this discussion without resorting to attacking, insulting, or putting down those that you don't agree with then I would highly recommend that you refrain from entering into this discussion. Because if you can't do you'll find yourself in a time out. The choice is entirely up to you of course, but please don't think that I will hesitate to take actions

Discussions such as this are very important and deserve to be heard, but we're not going to allow members to start attacking those people that they don't agree with. It's not going to happen. So if you can't discuss this in a civil and mature manner you should just avoid this discussion. In addition, we aren't going to shut down an entire thread simply because some people think the discussion is over and there is nothing left to talk about. We strive to allow a discussion to play out in it's entirely whenever possible, and try to avoid closing a thread unless there is no other options.

So guys, let's start getting along here or I'll start putting some people in a time out.

Ken
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:54 AM
  #121
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

This is why I don't fly at mass events. Too many variables. I love to attend events as an observer, but I put too much time and money into my ships to risk this very same thing (which I have seen happen way too often). I am VERY happy flying solo or possibly when a trusted friend is in the air. If I'm up and too many wacky fliers take off (and you know who they are), I land. I don't feel the need to show my planes off in front of a crowd of people. But that's just me, God Bless the people who are willing to put on the show with their beautiful ships to the delight of others. If you are going to fly in an event such as this, you must be ready to take the risk. Bottom line is, the other guy lost his expensive machine as well.
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:56 AM
  #122
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Crashing is part of flying R/C. A few years ago I had a midair while flying a 1/3 scale laser...a profile fun fly hit my wing shearing about 4 inches off....I was able to land...he was toast...was I pissed ?? Sure but it was an unfortunate accident...it would have been ridiculous for me to expect the other pilot take care of the damage.

Perhaps the OP should stick to building scale static models that won't eventually expire. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing to see here....move along....
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:42 AM
  #123
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It has been my experience, that 90% of these factory sponsored pilots are hot doggers. They are there to demonstrate their equipment, most of which are 3 D type flying. When they take to the air I give them the air space. Many of the events I attend, at the pilots briefing, they say "if there are more than one airplane is in the air you must fly the pattern and keep your spacing". Mid-air crashes are always sad. I think the pilot who did the aileron roll is at fault because he did not have the space to accomplish the maneuver.

My 2 cents
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:43 AM
  #124
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


Quote:
ORIGINAL: eddieC

Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose.
How can one bury $3K in a TF kit? Seems quite high to me.
There are guys on here that think their Kit built planes are worth over $4K ... Like Beauty, Dollar signs are in the eye of the beholder. Besides anyone can put a pile of money into a project ... Unless it's built for SALE on Contract, after it flown a couple of times it's only worth what someone is willing to pay, not what the asking price is.

But for the purposes of this thread if U can't afford the Loss, then don't fly, Especially in a gaggle of guys U don't know.

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Old 06-10-2013, 08:58 AM
  #125
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As for those guys that say they would pay for someone eleses plane they had a mid air with, WELL maybe, maybe NOT. First of all it's really hard to believe U are at fault.  It's easy to say what we would do until it actually comes right down to owning up and pulling 3 grand out of your pocket, especially when U just lost your own very expensive plane. Just saying ... Money Talks, Bull S#!T Walks.

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