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Fire extinguisher for gassers?

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Old 12-08-2013, 05:28 AM
  #1
Mpizpilot
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Default Fire extinguisher for gassers?

At my recent club meeting I was basically singled out as the only guy flying gas motors and was told by the president that he is requiring fire extinguishers for gassers. Any one else out there have this rule in their club? I've been flying gas motors for years now, in many different areas and clubs and never had to deal with this.

Unfortunately, because of where I live (Long Island) I'm extremely limited in my club options. The truly good clubs are very difficult, if not impossible to get into. Between this new rule, the recent no low passes below 15 feet rule and a couple other issues, it's driving me out of the hobby. Shame some clubs have to ruin things.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:50 AM
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In the AMA rules for contests,events for giant scale ,extinguishers are required in the fits and/or at fueling areas. They also have a non-smoking rule in the pits and in the fueling area. As far as I know, the only mandatory AMA requirement to have one at all times outside of contests,events is for turbine flyers.
If your club is requiring an extinguisher for you or anyone because of using gasoline they should also have a non-smoking rule in the pits. That's the logical thing to do. Otherwise they are not really concerned with "safety".
I carry a very small halon one with me just in case.
Also the no low passes rule is a bit overboard. That's where most of the fun happens......close to the ground !

Last edited by flyinwalenda; 12-08-2013 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 12-08-2013, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpizpilot View Post
At my recent club meeting I was basically singled out as the only guy flying gas motors and was told by the president that he is requiring fire extinguishers for gassers. Any one else out there have this rule in their club? I've been flying gas motors for years now, in many different areas and clubs and never had to deal with this.

Unfortunately, because of where I live (Long Island) I'm extremely limited in my club options. The truly good clubs are very difficult, if not impossible to get into. Between this new rule, the recent no low passes below 15 feet rule and a couple other issues, it's driving me out of the hobby. Shame some clubs have to ruin things.
Ok , So call me Mr. Safety nerd ........

Ever since I restarted my hobby back in 2006 when I retired , I have had a couple of those small , cheap "Captain Kidd" or whatever fire extinguishers in my field boxes . They very may well be a false sense of fire security , for all I know , but at least if there ever were a fire , I'd have the two empty extinguishers in my hands when the real firefighters showed up . "Hey , at least somebody tried to put it out" . I just figure that for the less than $25 they both cost me , at least I'd be able to prove I DID take all reasonable precautions , how many times have we heard , AFTER the fact , "ya mean he was messin with flammables and had NO extinguisher handy ?" making it sound as if the fire never woulda happened in the first place if the guy had just had an extinguisher ... I , myself , have em everywhere I am , they are in my car , my kitchen , my garage , and especially my field box , wouldn't be without em .......

Now , as to being told ya HAVE to have em ?

I can understand the "Helmet Laws" fight in each and every law bound intrusion into our lives and can say this is NOT the way the founding Fathers intended , for the law to protect everyone from everything no matter what . I understand that the helmet law may not be a great example cause the only one my lack of helmet is gonna hurt is me , whereas an out of control fire lit by my fuel powered model plane most certainly could hurt others . It it with THIS idea , protecting others from the possible harm that could come from my toy , that I carry my extinguishers .. Rather than loose the use of your nice , local field , throw the club safety officer a bone and carry the extinguisher , but make it palatable to your self with the thought that , God forbid there ever were a fire , you could truthfully say you took every reasonable and called for in the club rules preventative measure by carrying the extinguisher .....

(PS , The "Helmet Laws" fight I refer to is in the Motorcycling hobby and not RC . I was just using it as an example here)
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:10 AM
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Every Club should have one handy, we have one near by for anyone to use, why would an individual have to provide it? I think the club should.. Maybe let those guys know Glow and EP are flammable too

Personally I keep one in my truck at all times,, Over the years there's been two occasions I've needed it along the road,, always nice to have, club required or not.

I say just buy one and don't rock the boat,
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:02 AM
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Sounds like they are trying to rule you out of the club. All you need is an ABC fire extinguisher, available at the Home Depot and most hardware stores. Halon has been mentioned here as well. The down side to Halon is that Halon is no longer allowed as it has been linked to ruining the atmosphere. They have come up with other products to replace Halon, however the cost of these extinguisher's is huge. The other down side is that these types of agents are designed to work in an enclosed area. Using one out side, as on a flight line, with any wind blowing is not going to do much. The up side is, if it does work and put out the fire, there is no damage from the extinguishing agent. One of our club members got a used 5 pound Halon for his jet at a cost of $200.00, where as a 5 pound ABC powder would run about $35.00. As for the under 15 feet rule, I would not like that at all. I do a lot of touch and goes at high speed, as well as limbo's, so that would not work for me. Just vote in a new President next election and good luck, Dave
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scale only 4 me View Post
Every Club should have one handy, we have one near by for anyone to use, why would an individual have to provide it? I think the club should.. Maybe let those guys know Glow and EP are flammable too

Personally I keep one in my truck at all times,, Over the years there's been two occasions I've needed it along the road,, always nice to have, club required or not.

I say just buy one and don't rock the boat,
For once I completely agree with you, every club should have at least one fire extiguisher in easy reach. Gasoline isn't the only thing that can burn, I am pretty sure most of us has seen at least one lipo fire. Just sounds like common sense to me but they shouldn't make Mpizpilot soley responsible to buy one. I have a chemical extinguisher in my truck but I would have that anyway.
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:35 AM
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At the 1983 Nats, I wandered over to the area where there were giant scale gasoline powered airplanes. The pit area was mowed dry grass. I noted a number of small black charred spots. I assumed they represented fires which had been immediately put out.

The only turbines I have seen fly were a couple of guys out at the field flying alone except for me watching. The did the stand by with fire extingisher at each start up.

When flying control line racing, I had a squirt bottle of water at hand to put out possible fires when pitting hot engines. Used it a couple of times.
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:53 PM
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In some 40 years+ in RC, I've only seen 4 fires, 1 where a glow (alcohol) container burned and destroyed the car it was near, one when an electric powered plane crashed and two electrics that burned due to short circuits on the LiPo's being used. Never one where gasoline was involved.
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Old 12-08-2013, 08:44 PM
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When push comes to shove, I'm sure I'll just suck it up and have one with me just to keep the piece. I truly wish I had the time to devote running for a position in the club to maintain some sanity, but I just don't. So I'll just keep my mouth shut, try my best to fly when the field sheriff isn't there and not give an ounce of my time ever again to helping with the field maintenance, upkeep or helping other members with their plane problems. Just fly and go home till I can find something better. What a shame.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:52 AM
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I'm sure that attitude will only help your position.

Dave
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:19 AM
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Hi my club where we fly is very wooded . it only make sense to all of us one to have a club fire extingisher ,and all flyer have their own !



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Old 12-09-2013, 06:07 AM
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If they are demanding an extinguisher only for gassers they are missing the other and more serious fire threat. That being the electric fliers. I've never seen a gas/nitro fire but I've seen several lipo fires. All resulted in total loss of the airplane including starting grass fires.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpizpilot View Post
When push comes to shove, I'm sure I'll just suck it up and have one with me just to keep the piece. I truly wish I had the time to devote running for a position in the club to maintain some sanity, but I just don't. So I'll just keep my mouth shut, try my best to fly when the field sheriff isn't there and not give an ounce of my time ever again to helping with the field maintenance, upkeep or helping other members with their plane problems. Just fly and go home till I can find something better. What a shame.
Don't let a few jerks ruin your fun, best response is no response at all,, if you let them know you're upset about it,, they win.

good luck
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:37 AM
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Did the club president provide you with something written?
If so, follow that rule to the letter. So, if the rule reads that anyone flying a gasser must have a fire extinguisher, then get a fire extinguisher.
However, does the rule state that the extinguisher must be at the field? If the rule doesn't state that, then you can still comply with the rule, but your fire extinguisher is at home!
Does the rule state that the extinguisher must be of a certain type, and operable? If not, then carry an empty fire extinguisher. You will still be in compliance with the rule!
If he wants to be a PITA, then you can be a PITA too!

If he later writes the rule as anyone flying a gasser must have an extinguisher present, you would still be in compliance if you show up without an extinguisher and just bench run your engine. After all, you're not FLYING it.
And, where exactly is "present"? It could also mean in the trunk of the car. That's present.

Remember, you are just following his rule.

Last edited by Airplanes400; 12-09-2013 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:08 AM
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I have been involved with gas burners for a while and have never seen the real need for a fire extinguisher immediately available. That being said, 15 years ago I mounted 2 in my trailer and they go with me when I fly because some of the less bright folks thought it was necessary to have them available. Once they were installed the nay sayers shut up. The ONLY fires I have seen involving modeling incidents, my fire extinguishers would not have been able to handle. One was a large grass fire set off by a crashing electric 100 yards away. By the time we got to the area, it was time to call the fire department. The other 3 were turbine crashes where lots of heat and accelerant (turbine fuel) has arrived at the crash site simultaneously.

Having the fire extinguisher available makes the weak kneed feel safer, silences the wah wah kids, and really does not take that much room or attention and may some day be useful. Think of putting one with your stuff as a signal that you are trying to be a part of the group rather than someone 'special'.

As for the silly 'no low pass' rule, if that is anywhere at any time someone is trying to put the LHS out of business because that is where lots of 'hey watch this' moves lead to. If it is only when others are trying to fly in the same area (take off - land - or just have fun) at the same time, I am not sure it is a terrible thing.

I suspect there is a communications problem in your club and from what I have experienced in your neck of the woods, it is difficult to resolve. You might spend some time and effort to find the individual driving this stuff and see what it will take to get him/her to back off. Usually sharing the fun helps a lot. I have been known to put someone on one of my big birds with a buddy box to settle down their aggressiveness towards what I fly.

Good luck.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:10 AM
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The 'trick' most of us frequently forget is that this is for fun which means we fight when we should be making things work for all. It is interesting to watch and see how some get their pleasures.

Good luck.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:18 AM
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A fire extinguisher and first aid kit should be readily available at any club field or flying site.

But like Rodney, I've been around a long time and never saw a gasser related fire. Jets and electric yup but no gasser. Though I've never been hit by lightning or been bit by a snake and it happens quite frequently in Florida so never say never eh?
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpizpilot View Post
When push comes to shove, I'm sure I'll just suck it up and have one with me just to keep the piece. I truly wish I had the time to devote running for a position in the club to maintain some sanity, but I just don't. So I'll just keep my mouth shut, try my best to fly when the field sheriff isn't there and not give an ounce of my time ever again to helping with the field maintenance, upkeep or helping other members with their plane problems. Just fly and go home till I can find something better. What a shame.
If you are one of the folks who usually helps your fellow flyers out with their planes , it would be they who loose by your sudden refusal to offer help , rather than the club officers with whom you have issue . I'm not sure what punishing the other members would serve ?

Also , I'd forget trying to pull any "locker room lawyer" stuff as suggested in post #14 . Remember , that in a pissing contest , BOTH combatants end up covered in , well , , PISS , and there just has GOT to be a better way to resolve such differences .

In closing , and in full agreement with having witnessed a burning LIPO , it would be wise for ALL RCers to have at least a small extinguisher on hand , if the club don't have a "club use" one (my club is SO small there isn't even a tiny shed on the property to store one , and most of the guys do have one in their field box)

Last edited by init4fun; 12-09-2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:43 AM
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I have often thought my club needed fire extinguishers. I have more fire extinguishers in my home than my club has. Thanks for reminding me to bring that up.

Go ahead and buy one. They are cheap and good insurance. Sooner or later, your club will evolve and realize the club should have fire extinguishers of its own.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:11 AM
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Who died and made him the boss? In my club all rules require a vote by the membership. The job of the president is to run the meeting and call for a vote. Guess he thinks if it works in DC he can do it too. Time for a new pres, but I would not give up on being a good club member. Maybe encourage another to run against him?
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:48 AM
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Our club has both first aid kits and fire extinguishers but no rule that the pilot of any specific power plant is required to have one. Since you have a fair amount of money invested in this hobby, having a fire extinguisher should not be a point of contention with a club and I seriously doubt the president of the club is trying to force you out of the club. At a time when many clubs have trouble getting new members, it would be bad policy and publicity to attempt forcing someone out using a fire extinguisher as a tool. If that is really the case then it's time for a new President. Club by-laws are generally written such that the President is not KING. Learn your clubs by-laws. If they have none, they need them. Finally, not participating in club activities and work projects is a good way to get shunned. In order to have a friends at your club you need to be a friend. In this particular case I would show up with an extinguisher but I would also question the President privately on this decision and then raise the topic at the club meetings. Being singled out as a fire hazard is an reason to have an extinguisher. Being singled out because you fly a gasser is not a valid reason. As I pointed out earlier,Turbines and LIPO's are far more likely to burst into flames in a crash or during charging than a gasser. Also keep in mind that when more than two people are involved in any activity there will be disagreements. You have a choice. You can simply abide by the decision, try to change the ruling, or find a different club. Applying a little "tact" when negotiating touchy situations goes a long way.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopdeeloop View Post
Our club has both first aid kits and fire extinguishers but no rule that the pilot of any specific power plant is required to have one. Since you have a fair amount of money invested in this hobby, having a fire extinguisher should not be a point of contention with a club and I seriously doubt the president of the club is trying to force you out of the club. At a time when many clubs have trouble getting new members, it would be bad policy and publicity to attempt forcing someone out using a fire extinguisher as a tool. If that is really the case then it's time for a new President. Club by-laws are generally written such that the President is not KING. Learn your clubs by-laws. If they have none, they need them. Finally, not participating in club activities and work projects is a good way to get shunned. In order to have a friends at your club you need to be a friend. In this particular case I would show up with an extinguisher but I would also question the President privately on this decision and then raise the topic at the club meetings. Being singled out as a fire hazard is an reason to have an extinguisher. Being singled out because you fly a gasser is not a valid reason. As I pointed out earlier,Turbines and LIPO's are far more likely to burst into flames in a crash or during charging than a gasser. Also keep in mind that when more than two people are involved in any activity there will be disagreements. You have a choice. You can simply abide by the decision, try to change the ruling, or find a different club. Applying a little "tact" when negotiating touchy situations goes a long way.
Lots of good responses and I really appreciate them. Let me just state, I really enjoy the hobby and flying. I'm not a " hey look at me" type of flyer. I like to make a low pass now and then with my warbirds, even like some low 3d type stuff with my aerobats. BUT, I never ever do this stuff with other planes in the air ( our club is small and inactive enough), and I always just nod my head and say sure no problem whenever there is any concern or whenever there is any person looking for some help.

With all that said, all this stuff is coming from one person, the president of the club. No one else in the club who is any type of active flyer ever has any issues , just the president. When I first was joining the club, I heard horror stories of this guy, things about how he has run people off, giving the club a bad rap. Heck, I was even told about a time he threatened to get his gun out once during an altercation, so that kind of tells you the type of person we are dealing with here. On the flip side of the coin, I've actually made a effort to befriend this gentlemen by going to flea markets, calling when I was going to the field so we could fly together. Last year my wife and I even dropped a gift off for him at Christmas (He is an older gentleman and a widower that lives alone). I know him well enough that if I were to bring up any points of contention concerning this situation it would only cause animosity and make the situation worse.

The part that is really sad is that the club is desperate for new members. Unfortunately the way people can be treated, the excessive rules and the overriding "old boys club" mentality is going to not only drive members away, but eventually lead no doubt to the clubs demise.

When all is said and done, I've got enough spare extinguishers around the house and shop I can just throw one in my truck box to quiet the squeaky wheel.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:27 PM
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I've dealt with these types before. it's "their" club and "their" rules, If yuou don't like it too bad. I have an issue wtih clubs that are run that way. Personally, I'd ry and remember that thsi is a hobby and is supposed to be fun for all. Have you polled other club members as to their opinions as to these issues? Find out what some of the other memebers thing about these issues, adn go from there. If they're all in agreement with the president, then I guess that's the law of the land. If not, then there are avenues for you to pursue. But try and remember, in all this, it's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, but if you can't relax at the field and just fly and have fun, then it's time to do something.

Just my two cents....
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:12 PM
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Wow, I'm not the only one. In my club there are three fire extinguishers, two at the Pitts and one at the flight line. Just recently there was a fire caused by a Lipo batt, our reactive safety officer now wants all electric pilots to have a fire extinguisher in their cars.
No such rule x gassers or glow. We don't allow turbines.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
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Lots of good responses and I really appreciate them. Let me just state, I really enjoy the hobby and flying. I'm not a " hey look at me" type of flyer. I like to make a low pass now and then with my warbirds, even like some low 3d type stuff with my aerobats. BUT, I never ever do this stuff with other planes in the air ( our club is small and inactive enough), and I always just nod my head and say sure no problem whenever there is any concern or whenever there is any person looking for some help.

With all that said, all this stuff is coming from one person, the president of the club. No one else in the club who is any type of active flyer ever has any issues , just the president. When I first was joining the club, I heard horror stories of this guy, things about how he has run people off, giving the club a bad rap. Heck, I was even told about a time he threatened to get his gun out once during an altercation, so that kind of tells you the type of person we are dealing with here. On the flip side of the coin, I've actually made a effort to befriend this gentlemen by going to flea markets, calling when I was going to the field so we could fly together. Last year my wife and I even dropped a gift off for him at Christmas (He is an older gentleman and a widower that lives alone). I know him well enough that if I were to bring up any points of contention concerning this situation it would only cause animosity and make the situation worse.

The part that is really sad is that the club is desperate for new members. Unfortunately the way people can be treated, the excessive rules and the overriding "old boys club" mentality is going to not only drive members away, but eventually lead no doubt to the clubs demise.

When all is said and done, I've got enough spare extinguishers around the house and shop I can just throw one in my truck box to quiet the squeaky wheel.
I don't like threats and dislike threats of bigger bore firepower even less. I had a previous club member do similar to me and I told him that if I saw the gun, charges would be filed and they would stick since there were witnesses to both the threat and the action. He left town shortly after that, but I did hear his girl went to jail for killing someone a couple of years later. I guess it ran in the family.


Like I said earlier, good luck. As I suggested earlier, you might try putting him on a buddy box flying one of your gassers, it might help grease that squeaky wheel.
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