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Thread: Turned off


  1. #1
    Live Wire's Avatar
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    Turned off

    How many people are leaving the hobby for just loosing interest or for some one that want things their way. Club problems that can not be cured and lack of interest from members. Am I the only one that see's this . Yes there is a change in the hobby , Is it the hobby or the people envolved.
    Larry K
    Sig Brotherhood # 1 Sig Kadet Brotherhood # 4 WACO Brotherhood #34 Cub Brotherhood 14

  2. #2
    flyinwalenda's Avatar
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    There will always be clubs with problems and usually they are caused by and perpetuated by the folks running the show whether it be the club officers and/or the resident clique. Quite often there is not much you can do about it other than press the flush handle and try and get new forward thinking blood in charge or just let Father Time deal with the folks. Until that happens just fly your planes and enjoy your time with the other like-minded members.
    Brian Ray

  3. #3
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    From my perspective as a club officer, or was, I would have to say it's the people. For the most part we are a great bunch of guys but often one comes along that don't want to play by the rules. Irregardless of how lenient those rules may be. One can see it on here quite a bit. Most of us ignore them and they are soon on their way, one way or another.
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
    Corsair Brotherhood #56\\ Waco Brotherhood #184

  4. #4
    Live Wire's Avatar
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    Interesting when the club or organization let some one run what is going on for years. Yes they have power and money but do they realize what they are doing. Yes to them they are helping but to others they are just trying to show how great they are and who they are.
    Larry K
    Sig Brotherhood # 1 Sig Kadet Brotherhood # 4 WACO Brotherhood #34 Cub Brotherhood 14

  5. #5
    countilaw's Avatar
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    The invention of the ARF is what has killed the hobby. Why, you may ask. Let's look back 30 or even 40 years ago. Most all that were in the club and the hobby were builders. They worked hard at building their planes. They were true airplane hobbyist. Today, the people you see at the field are flying foamy RTF. They are NOT hobbyist, but guys that just want to fly a model plane. They don't want to take the time to build a plane, experiment with different designs or try something new. (unless it comes in a box with little or no assembly time).

    These guys don't care about the club, or the field. They don't attend club meetings, because they don't care about whether the field get a new lease the next year, or not. The don't help cut the grass at the field, but they will complain if they can't fly because someone else didn't cut the grass. The don't help with any maintenance at the field either.

    WHY? The just want a place to fly their toy foamy. They don't care about the other members or the rules.

    If they show up at the field and there is an event going on, they complain because they can't fly. They don't say, "Hey, is there anything I can do to help?"

    If they show up while you are cutting the grass, they will either sit in their car and wait until you are done, or leave and come back later.
    (I have actually seen this happen more times than I care to admit.)

    They just pay their dues each year so they can have use of the field. So out of 50 members, you will have 10 that actually do anything to perpetuate the club.

    Frank
    Last edited by countilaw; 12-26-2013 at 09:40 PM. Reason: had to remove the word b_ tch and replace with complain
    AMA #5810
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  6. #6
    scale only 4 me's Avatar
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    Both my clubs are doing great in what are still tough times in this area,,
    if it wasn't for affordable ARFs we probably wouldn't have enough members to keep either club up and running, (2 fields each)

    Both are full of great guys that are there to have fun and get along great for the most part,, future looks good to me

    Happy New Year
    Last edited by scale only 4 me; 12-27-2013 at 10:10 AM.
    You're so smart,, you figured out how to read this!! Or maybe ya just got lucky??

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Wire View Post
    Interesting when the club or organization let some one run what is going on for years. Yes they have power and money but do they realize what they are doing. Yes to them they are helping but to others they are just trying to show how great they are and who they are.
    Yes, sometimes you have folks take on these positions in clubs who never had any leadership experience in their life while others become "power hungry" and it goes to their heads. They forget (or don't know)that in most club environments they are there to carry out the will of the club not their own will or that of their buddies. As far as someone not knowing what they are doing while in positions like this,well there is too much of that going on all over in private,public, and business!
    Brian Ray

  8. #8

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    In my 2 clubs here in N.Carolina, we are going strong with good membership numbers & willingness of persons to help get things done. A.R.F.s do have their place in this hobby as not everyone has the time, or more importantly, & harder to aquire, a place in their home to devote to modeling that would remain "undisturbed" while the modeling/building process was not taking place. I fly as a guest at one of "scale only for me"'s fields when I visit family in Ohio in Aug. & I must say, I havent found a better bunch of people to meet, chat with, & enjoy a day of flying with in all my travels. Happy New year to all !!!!! Bill
    Last edited by MILDBILL-RCU; 12-27-2013 at 07:13 AM.
    ULTRA-SPORT BROTHERHOOD #7. If enough power is good, & more is better, than \"WAY TOO MUCH\" is just about right!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by scale only 4 me View Post
    Both my clubs are doing great in what are still tough times in this area,,
    if it wasn't for affordable ARFs we probably wouldn't have enough members to keep either club up and running, (2 fields each)

    Both are full of great guys that are there to have fun and get along great for the most part,, future looks good to me

    Happy New Year
    This is certainly something to think about. I know of one club that would only have about two or three members if it were not for ARFs. They have around 70 members now because of ARFs. I fly ARFs and if I could not get ARFs it would be one less person in the hobby because I don't build. I mow and come to events, do maintenance, etc.

    Just this year alone at another club, I helped rebuild the mower (paid for most of the parts), painted the shelter, put a roof on the shelter at one of the clubs I belong to. I picked up the roofing, coordinated the help, and donated to the cost of materials, too. Dang no-account worthless ARF member

  10. #10
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    I'm not saying that all RTF pilots are non contributors. Just most! Like the prior posted said, if it weren't for RTF he wouldn't be in the hobby. That reenforces what I said about the 70s and 80s. Those were hard core airplane hobbyist. They really were devoted to the hobby, club and members.

    If a person claims that, " I don't have time to build" they are just making excuses. If they wanted to build they would find time for it.

    Frank
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  11. #11
    scale only 4 me's Avatar
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    What turns me off is the dividing and judging,, why not just be happy so many people are enjoying a our great hobby?
    You're so smart,, you figured out how to read this!! Or maybe ya just got lucky??

  12. #12
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    From my POV it's the manufacturers and distributors. The almighty dollar has led them to produce cheap crap for the untrained park/mall/schoolyard.backyard/FPV/ you name it pilot. The one who feels his fun is more impratant than safetey or our hobby. We seem those people all over this sight and can probably name a few. They are making it difficult for the reast of us to enjoy the comraderie of the club and the relaxation of flying. Our sites are dissapearing. Even our hobby is being threatened. Yes, I am getting very turned off. When we have to look over our shoulders all the time to see who is watching us it is nerve wracking to the point of not being fun anymore. All for the almighty dollar.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by countilaw View Post
    The invention of the ARF is what has killed the hobby. Why, you may ask. Let's look back 30 or even 40 years ago. Most all that were in the club and the hobby were builders. They worked hard at building their planes. They were true airplane hobbyist. Today, the people you see at the field are flying foamy RTF. They are NOT hobbyist, but guys that just want to fly a model plane. They don't want to take the time to build a plane, experiment with different designs or try something new. (unless it comes in a box with little or no assembly time).

    These guys don't care about the club, or the field. They don't attend club meetings, because they don't care about whether the field get a new lease the next year, or not. The don't help cut the grass at the field, but they will complain if they can't fly because someone else didn't cut the grass. The don't help with any maintenance at the field either.

    WHY? The just want a place to fly their toy foamy. They don't care about the other members or the rules.

    If they show up at the field and there is an event going on, they complain because they can't fly. They don't say, "Hey, is there anything I can do to help?"

    If they show up while you are cutting the grass, they will either sit in their car and wait until you are done, or leave and come back later.
    (I have actually seen this happen more times than I care to admit.)

    They just pay their dues each year so they can have use of the field. So out of 50 members, you will have 10 that actually do anything to perpetuate the club.

    Frank

    Amen! I belong to 2 clubs the oldest when I was president we had about 130 members aprox. 50% older modelers and 50% younger all were builders now we have about 20 members 95% older and 5% younger guess who the builders are? The other club is small 25 members max both builders and ARF fliers and all are active in our activities. What gives??????????????
    Mike Burg

  14. #14
    raptureboy's Avatar
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    No, No, No, it's all RCU's fault for providing a place for everybody to complain about everybody else.
    If what you believed to be true was false would you want to know the truth?

    "You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free".

  15. #15

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    Every club I have encountered or been a member of has been run by majority rule. If a club has changed direction it’s because the majority made a choice. Right wrong or indifferent as the demographics of the club changes the club will change to reflect the wishes of that majority. At present the one club I belong to I have been a member for a long time. The older members worked very hard to improve the field to what it is today and to accumulate a comfortable balance in the bank. The past five years has seen an influx of a lot of new members whose interest is predominantly foam/park flyers and arfs. They have become the new majority and are constantly working to change the club facilities to suit their needs. Where we worked our tail off raising money for the changes we wanted and continued to work extra hard to implement those changes I see this new majority instead dipping into these funds that took years to accumulate. For instance one of them makes a motion to buy and install a petromatt runway 30 ft wide by 200 ft long since their the majority it passes and we have this little piece of petromatt right in the middle of the field. Most of them can’t stay on the stuff taking off and a lucky to catch a piece of the thing on landing. They would have been much better off waiting a year and spending the time raising enough money to put a bigger petromatt runway in something everyone would use. I have altered my involvement with the club in the fact I do not agree with the direction the club has taken so I pay my dues and just fly. I no longer contribute. Many of the older members feel the same way and we all seem to get together and fly on off nights when no one else is going to be there.

    Dennis

  16. #16

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    We seem to have blamed everybody for the ills facing the clubs and the hobby in general. Since this particular thread pertained primarily to
    "building" lets play with that a bit. It is no secret that the small foamies have become very popular. Let's also consider that most club fields are not in the center of town or within walking distance of wherever it is folks live. Attracting young folks into this hobby requires parental involvement if only for the ability for the youngster to get to the field to fly. Without transportation, a young persons only choice is to head for a neighborhood baseball, soccer, football, or track facility to fly his little heli or foamy fixed wing. Parents today very likely both have jobs so with after school activities and the inevitable bunch of chores that every family has, weekend time becomes precious. Face it -- many parents today don't know which end of a screwdriver to hold because they never learned. Having never had to fix things, how on earth can we expect that person to mentor his child in aeronautics and building things. If it doesn't come in a box needing only some batteries, neither parent nor child is interested. We have Dads and Moms at our field at various events and while they may be interested in getting involved, the child has zero interest because it isn't a video game or a movie. The opposite also applies. Young folks may be interested but Dad simply doesn't want to be involved because they must be there for the duration of the activity. Our club participates in a Home & Recreation Show each March and a Civil Air Patrol event in the fall. We display various aircraft, have club and AMA brochures. pictures of events, etc., on display and visitors can try their hand at the simulator. If the child is interested, Dad and Mom aren't. If Dad and Mom think it's a great idea, the child has no interest. Unless we bring both factions into the mix, there will always be us "old duffers" many of whom build and fewer younger folks. Those younger folks who do drive, invariably are in love with helicopters or foamy fixed wing. They want nothing to do with engines, and don't have a clue about the dangers inherent with LiPo batteries and the very sharp electric props. As the old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

    Finally, how clubs are run will always and forever be an issue with some folks. Our club "owns" our facility and we work very hard to keep it looking nice, and a welcoming place for all. This is not the only thread where fingers are pointed at club officers, specific members, older members, special people, etc. Before one bashes any of these folks, take a good look in the mirror. There is a pretty good chance part of the problem (in some cases a good bit of the problem) lies in what is seen in the mirror. Many of the older clubs were formed by the now older folks who did whatever it took to make it happen. New blood is generally welcomed as the old timers can't continue to work like they used to. Unfortunately, those old timers tend to get stuck in their ways and have a tough time letting go. My suggestion is to relish the effort they put forth and what they believe in. As a new comer to a club, the old timers don't know you so it should not surprise you if they are a bit suspicious. Befriend them. No -- it doesn't always work. The companies I worked for over the years had many new policies and procedures under consideration and input was asked for. The response "this is the way we always did it" was almost certainly reason to get you reassigned or fired. The reason these policies and procedures change is becomes times change and what worked in the past is no longer efficient. Don't change things for the sake of change however. Work at making changes for the betterment of the club. Work with people -- not against them. Compromise is required when there are more than two or more people standing on the same turf. OK -- I'm done.

  17. #17

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    We have great guys in our club, no proplems there. My proplem is not finding the time to fly, only get four days a month off if lucky, today the weather was great but have to work from six thirty to 7pm tonight and back in the morning, its great to be working but leaves little time for anything else.

  18. #18

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    This past year, our club sorta died down to just a few members, due to alot of factors. Mostly do to state of the ecomony this past summer, and many who moved away. Also, its a town park, so we only get its use on Sundays (and the entire park too). Just wish we could get the field mowed alot better (the town wont budge on that issue). We are any easy goin club too, friendly, and open, and everyone can take a good ribbing. We love all kinds of aircraft, we dont care if its kit, plan,arf,or rtf, we are just happy to be flying anything.
    Im one of the club officers, been for some time now and still enjoy it. Am looking forward to another season, and hope the word will get out again for some more members, we could use em. I'll be flying a new gasser for something next season. Bought it all built up, thanks to RCU ! :-) (I hate to build too.)
    Happy New Year All

  19. #19
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    People can ***** about ARF's "ruining the hobby" all they want, but if it weren't for ARFs, a lot fewer people would be in the hobby. Fewer people mean higher prices so that few "real modelers" would be able to afford the limited selection of stuff that was still in production. ARFs provide an economy of scale (more folks flying) that keep this hobby affordable for all of us. There may not be as many "real modelers" at the field as some of us would like to see, but we ALL benefit from lower prices. I also fly turbines, so I know all about what happens to prices when only a relatively small number of people participate.
    Jet Central Superbee & Rabbit
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  20. #20

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    Sometimes I fly home built ..........

    Sometimes I fly ARFs ...............

    Never , ever , do I gauge the fun I'm having by what the other guy is flying !

  21. #21
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    Here is the way I see it.
    I am 35 years old I have been flying model airplanes since I was 5 years old. Growing up my dad owned a hobby shop until I was about 14 so we always had model airplanes,cars,truck, speed boats, sail boats, rockets,trains you name it around the house. I will never forget when my dad and I tried to first learn to fly we went to a club with about 100 members, as a kid I remember them being mostly "old" guys. But the thing I remember the most and to this day my dad and I still talk about it is how much( I will keep my language clean) of a total bunch of ----------- the "good" pilots were. Just so full of themselves and didn't even want to talk to you because they could fly a stupid model airplane. You would ask them a question and they would turn their nose up to you and maybe one of their lackies would answer you if they gave them permission to talk to you. Sounds crazy but I know a bunch of you have ran into these people and if you were or are one of "those pilots" shame on you. Quite simply you parents should have used the belt more. Don't get me wrong I love this hobby, I owe my life today to this hobby. I met a guy in 1998 who wanted to learn to fly and I have been blessed to be pretty good on the sticks, he saw that and approached me wanting to learn to fly and I was HAPPY to teach anyone because I remember the abuse my dad and I took back in the day. Mind you we were treated this way at the other 2 local clubs in the area. So I taught this guy to fly and ended up striking up a relationship. 1 year later I started working for this guy selling full scale airplanes. Another year goes buy and this guy retired and I started my own business. Now thanks to model aviation I directly and in-directly employee over 200 people, put food on families tables and I am truly "LIVING THE DREAM" all thanks to model aviation and God of course. So thankfully after all the bad experiences we had early in the hobby we never gave up. To this day I am very happy to help anyone who asks, to me sharing knowledge is one of the funniest parts of the hobby. So please if you ever see someone at your club acting like a big shot or you think you are a big shot because you can fly a model airplane please remember it's just a stupid model airplane they have no eternal meaning and even the best pilots in the world can't make a living on just flying models. I will say most of those people that treated us that way are dead now and the new breed of pilots are better at helping new pilots out. But sometimes I still see some guys acting what I call " old school" and in a very professional way I will remind them it's just a stupid model airplane.

  22. #22

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    30 or 40 years ago perhaps people knew what it was to mind their own business. Without the ARF & toy foamy market the hobby wouldn't be financially sustainable and the Very Few New, Young flyers that are joining the hobby today wouldn't be here. The real issue facing this hobby is that the next generations of young kids and middle aged fathers are made to feel unwelcome. I've seen this, I've experienced it myself; if young folks don't come into his hobby to replace the older folks, the hobby ceases to exist. GRUMPY OLD MEN are in fact the problem, the AMA continues to pose he question "why isn't the hobby growing"? Old guys, it's time to pass the torch, my grandfather brought me to this hobby, I'm getting my 5 year old into it, I just bought the Horizon trainer with SAFE technology, brilliant training platform for small kids, and an ARF. I admire those craftsmen that can build those great works aviation art, this was my grandfather, loved to build didn't have the eyesight to fly; not all of us possess the talent or time to build, we're busy working and raising kids which is exponentially more expensive than it was 30 or 40 yrs ago. Happy New Year
    Last edited by Bolshoi; 12-27-2013 at 07:47 PM.

  23. #23

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    Frank, you sound just like a friend of mine, also named Frank, from a club up in the northeast section of the country. I agree with you and the other Frank whole heartedly.


    Ed Cregger, NM2K
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  24. #24
    countilaw's Avatar
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    "Grumpy old men are the problem" ???? If it weren't for the Grumpy old men, most of you younger guys would be trying to fly in parks and parking lots. It's those Grumpy old men that built the flying fields that you enjoy today. It's the Grumpy old men that still get out and cut the grass, edge the run way and do the general maintenance of the field. Grumpy old men have paid their dues so the young "Ain't got time to build" guys can have a field to fly from.

    Things are more expensive than they were 30 or 40 years ago. REALLY? When I started flying model airplanes I was 8, I bought all my modelling stuff from money I saved from doing odd jobs like cutting grass. I raised two children and went to college and still had time to build my planes and planes for my kids.

    Excuses, Excuses, Excuses. Today approximately 40 % of the population is unemployed and living off government benefits. The millenium child has had everything given to him. The millenium child grew up with video games and instant gradification. Having to build a model airplane is not instant gradification, thus the "I DON'T HAVE TIME TO BUILD excuse.

    I am not against the guy that doesn't want to build a plane, I just dislike the guy that takes advantage of the loyal club member, that blames everything on the Grumpy old man.

  25. #25

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    I fly arfs. I have built many planes from the old box o sticks just try building a house of balsa kit. Our club has a great family spirit old guys young kids boys and girls three club owned and member owned trainers with chords that are arfs to introduce kids parents familys to the hobby. we have old timers young timers all of it, don't think you aren't a modeler if you don't scratch build. their are some fantastic arfs out their, personnaly I think anti arf should keep his opinion to his self. I think countilaw must be a politician the way he changed his tune when he got bashed for bashing arfs. hey go start your builders only club have fun with that. be a bunch old grumps talking bout the good old days.


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