Bad day at the field today.
#1
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My Feedback: (17)
Bad day at the field today.
Today was one of those days we all experience sooner or later if we fly long enough. A destroyed airplane, not because of pilot error but because of manufacturer defect.
I spent the last week assembling a Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle 580 53". Today I took it to the field for it's maiden flight, nice day for flying, beautiful blue sky, not a cloud in sight. Cranked the engine, got it tuned. Took off, gained about 150', about half throttle, started to get it trimmed. All of a sudden it started to roll, first one way, then the other. It was all over the place. I managed to get it closer to me and all of a sudden it went into a death roll, straight to the ground. It looked as if one of the ailerons had pulled out at the hinge line.
Post crash inspection confirmed my experience. One aileron had pulled comletely out the other had pulled 2 of the three ca hinges out. (All control surfaces but the rudder were pre hinged at the factory) Close inspection revealed that the ca hinges had very little glue holding them in, also the fabric on some of the ca hinges had seperated from the plactic. They were not Great Planes ca hinges.
Needless to say, I'm aggrevated and dissapointed in Great Planes quality control.
I spent the last week assembling a Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle 580 53". Today I took it to the field for it's maiden flight, nice day for flying, beautiful blue sky, not a cloud in sight. Cranked the engine, got it tuned. Took off, gained about 150', about half throttle, started to get it trimmed. All of a sudden it started to roll, first one way, then the other. It was all over the place. I managed to get it closer to me and all of a sudden it went into a death roll, straight to the ground. It looked as if one of the ailerons had pulled out at the hinge line.
Post crash inspection confirmed my experience. One aileron had pulled comletely out the other had pulled 2 of the three ca hinges out. (All control surfaces but the rudder were pre hinged at the factory) Close inspection revealed that the ca hinges had very little glue holding them in, also the fabric on some of the ca hinges had seperated from the plactic. They were not Great Planes ca hinges.
Needless to say, I'm aggrevated and dissapointed in Great Planes quality control.
#2
Sorry to hear you lost your plane. ARFs seem to have a reputation of poor hinge attachment and of weak firewalls. Worth doing a very thorough inspection prior to flight with healthy tugs on all the control surfaces. Having a buddy check out the plane is also a good idea as a builder or buyer can get too close to things and overlook problems.
By the way, some ARFs come with the control surfaces attached but not glued. I bought a Superstar a few years ago that came that way and the instructions were rather vague on getting them glued.
By the way, some ARFs come with the control surfaces attached but not glued. I bought a Superstar a few years ago that came that way and the instructions were rather vague on getting them glued.
#3
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
Sorry to hear you lost your plane. ARFs seem to have a reputation of poor hinge attachment and of weak firewalls. Worth doing a very thorough inspection prior to flight with healthy tugs on all the control surfaces. Having a buddy check out the plane is also a good idea as a builder or buyer can get too close to things and overlook problems.
By the way, some ARFs come with the control surfaces attached but not glued. I bought a Superstar a few years ago that came that way and the instructions were rather vague on getting them glued.
By the way, some ARFs come with the control surfaces attached but not glued. I bought a Superstar a few years ago that came that way and the instructions were rather vague on getting them glued.
I'll be calling Hobbico Monday. Hopefully they will replace the plane as I fully believe this failure was due to a manufacturing flaw in workmanship. If not, well, I'll have to reconsider any future purchases of Great Planes products.
We were having our quarterly club meeting today and there were at least a dozen witnesses, all but one person saw the failure in flight.
#4
My Feedback: (2)
Sorry you lost you plane. Hobbico is pretty good about warranty issues like this. I expect they will send you a new plane. At least it is not your fault. I hate it when I crash because I did something really stupid myself.
BTW, I like to do a pull test on my control surfaces as part of my pre-flight check.
BTW, I like to do a pull test on my control surfaces as part of my pre-flight check.
Last edited by JPMacG; 01-18-2014 at 04:53 PM.
#5
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
Sorry you lost you plane. Hobbico is pretty good about warranty issues like this. I expect they will send you a new plane. At least it is not your fault. I hate it when I crash because I did something really stupid myself.
BTW, I like to do a pull test on my control surfaces as part of my pre-flight check.
BTW, I like to do a pull test on my control surfaces as part of my pre-flight check.
#6
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I had those fuss covered plastic hinge strip off back about 8 years ago........can't believe GP still markets them........now a pre glued(factory)hinge does put a little reasonability on their shoulders........Radio South is the only CA hinge for me!! I only had to learn that lesion once......mine was the rudder so I did not loose the plane.
#8
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I have been using the Sonic Tronics Nifty hinges for quite some time now, and have had zero problems with them. They have a slot down the middle to allow CA glue to get down deep into the hinge pocket.
#9
Senior Member
Most of the ARFs I've recently put together have hinges that must be CA'd.
That aside, I usually CA the hinges anyway with very thin CA when they were glued at the factory.
Some of the ARF's have also had (in my opinion) less glue than they should at various other places.
(Firewall, general structure, LG mounts.)
That aside, I usually CA the hinges anyway with very thin CA when they were glued at the factory.
Some of the ARF's have also had (in my opinion) less glue than they should at various other places.
(Firewall, general structure, LG mounts.)
#10
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
I've looked the airplane over in a brightly lit workshop and it looks as if the fibers came off of the plastic part of the hinge. I've taken pictures of the hinges. Now that I'm not worried about hurting the plane I pulled on one of the elevators and it came off the same way, the fibers on the hinge stayed in the wood but the plastic came right out, and it didn't take much pulling. When you're assembling the plane and you do the pull test you want to be carefull not to crush the flying surface or control surface so pulling really hard is not that easy.
One of the guys who were there said that it may have been the temp., (upper 20's at the time), but in my workshop the temp. is 70 deg. The elevator still came off.
I don't think I would call it a flaw in workmanship but actualy defective hinges. I don't think adding more ca during the assembly would have mattered.
One of the guys who were there said that it may have been the temp., (upper 20's at the time), but in my workshop the temp. is 70 deg. The elevator still came off.
I don't think I would call it a flaw in workmanship but actualy defective hinges. I don't think adding more ca during the assembly would have mattered.
#12
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
Most of the ARFs I've recently put together have hinges that must be CA'd.
That aside, I usually CA the hinges anyway with very thin CA when they were glued at the factory.
Some of the ARF's have also had (in my opinion) less glue than they should at various other places.
(Firewall, general structure, LG mounts.)
That aside, I usually CA the hinges anyway with very thin CA when they were glued at the factory.
Some of the ARF's have also had (in my opinion) less glue than they should at various other places.
(Firewall, general structure, LG mounts.)
#13
My Feedback: (2)
I think the purpose of the fuzzy stuff on CA hinges is to enable the CA to wick down into the hinge slot. I don't think the fuzzy stuff is supposed to provide mechanical strength. So I don't think it is important that the fuzz has de-laminated from the backing material. I might be wrong.
#15
Thread Starter
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I just got off the phone with Hobbico. They wanted photos, which I sent by email, they may also want me to ship the remains to them for personal inspection. They will not cover the additional $180 in damages to the engine and servos.
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
#16
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
I just got off the phone with Hobbico. They wanted photos, which I sent by email, they may also want me to ship the remains to them for personal inspection. They will not cover the additional $180 in damages to the engine and servos.
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
Start asking for lawyer help and that could cost you more that a new model, engine and radio.
#17
Senior Member
I just got off the phone with Hobbico. They wanted photos, which I sent by email, they may also want me to ship the remains to them for personal inspection. They will not cover the additional $180 in damages to the engine and servos.
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
#19
My Feedback: (3)
Hi KP;
I am also sorry for your loss.
Keyman above has the best solution, and I use it for all of my aircraft, ARFs and scratch builds. I have seen too many hinge failures in the past including my own; PIN DA HINGES, I like toothpicks best; after the build & covering, drill 1 or 2 holes [1/16"] on both sides of all hinges {underside of wing/stab, do not drill thro topsides, then CA glue toothpick 'dowels' into the holes and deep enuff to go thro the hinges, trim to length with a razor saw,and if you want then touch up with paint. You will never have a hinge failure again.
I also agree with 'if they replace da plane, be satisfied wid dat', don't over-do it!!
Remember always: 'Krudd happens!!'
Just my 2 cents worth, happy hinge-pinning in future, and best regards from Glendale, Arizona.
Joe Nagy.
I am also sorry for your loss.
Keyman above has the best solution, and I use it for all of my aircraft, ARFs and scratch builds. I have seen too many hinge failures in the past including my own; PIN DA HINGES, I like toothpicks best; after the build & covering, drill 1 or 2 holes [1/16"] on both sides of all hinges {underside of wing/stab, do not drill thro topsides, then CA glue toothpick 'dowels' into the holes and deep enuff to go thro the hinges, trim to length with a razor saw,and if you want then touch up with paint. You will never have a hinge failure again.
I also agree with 'if they replace da plane, be satisfied wid dat', don't over-do it!!
Remember always: 'Krudd happens!!'
Just my 2 cents worth, happy hinge-pinning in future, and best regards from Glendale, Arizona.
Joe Nagy.
#20
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Do you need to send the whole aircraft, or could you just send in the wing trailing edges with ailerons, the horizontal and vertical stab with the elevators and rudder?
This would save you a lot of shipping cost.
Greg
This would save you a lot of shipping cost.
Greg
#21
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
I just got off the phone with Hobbico. They wanted photos, which I sent by email, they may also want me to ship the remains to them for personal inspection. They will not cover the additional $180 in damages to the engine and servos.
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
Just thinking ahead, worst case scenario. If they do not decide in my favor, I would consider filing a small claim lawsuit. I'm thinking that I should not return the complete airframe.
Any lawyer's out there want to weigh in?
I would be happy to get just the plane replaced. We all know that anytime we put a plane in the air we take a risk that all will not go well.
As for pinning the hinges, you bet I will. Either that or my first choice would be to replace all of them with Robart hinge points, I've had really good luck with them in the past and you just can't beat them for ease of instalation and smooth movement.
#22
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
There is one major reason I have been a costomer of Tower Hobbies since 1991. Below is the email I recieved from Hobbico today.
Keith,
We are sorry for the difficulties you have experienced with your model. We are willing to replace the Airplane, 2-S3010 servos, Head and rocker/valve cover for your OS 81FS and spinner.
Currently the engine head is backordered, that being said, we can either send you the engine parts, or if you send us your engine we will replace the parts at no charge for you.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Sincerely,
*********
Air Support
I have two things to say - Thank You Hobbico.
And - Screw Hobby King.
Keith,
We are sorry for the difficulties you have experienced with your model. We are willing to replace the Airplane, 2-S3010 servos, Head and rocker/valve cover for your OS 81FS and spinner.
Currently the engine head is backordered, that being said, we can either send you the engine parts, or if you send us your engine we will replace the parts at no charge for you.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Sincerely,
*********
Air Support
I have two things to say - Thank You Hobbico.
And - Screw Hobby King.
#23
There is one major reason I have been a costomer of Tower Hobbies since 1991. Below is the email I recieved from Hobbico today.
Keith,
We are sorry for the difficulties you have experienced with your model. We are willing to replace the Airplane, 2-S3010 servos, Head and rocker/valve cover for your OS 81FS and spinner.
Currently the engine head is backordered, that being said, we can either send you the engine parts, or if you send us your engine we will replace the parts at no charge for you.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Sincerely,
*********
Air Support
I have two things to say - Thank You Hobbico.
And - Screw Hobby King.
Keith,
We are sorry for the difficulties you have experienced with your model. We are willing to replace the Airplane, 2-S3010 servos, Head and rocker/valve cover for your OS 81FS and spinner.
Currently the engine head is backordered, that being said, we can either send you the engine parts, or if you send us your engine we will replace the parts at no charge for you.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Sincerely,
*********
Air Support
I have two things to say - Thank You Hobbico.
And - Screw Hobby King.
#25
Sorry for your crash. I think you are very lucky that Tower is replacing not just the plane but also the servos and engine parts. Kudos to Tower, and congrats to you. I have always had the best of service from Tower, complete resolution of any probs. I sometimes pin those hinges, but always add more thin CA. Never had any fail. Jon