larryak

My Feedback: (32)

Well said Mr. Crump!

flyinwalenda

My Feedback: (5)

I agree the blue turnigy lipos are good but the rest are sub-par. There are places to buy lipos here in the states now that are of good quality and pricing;some with long warranties. What really counts and back on topic is how the "company" acts or reacts with the customer. in the case of a faulty lipo or other item, One call/email to Tower and they would have another on the way. With HK you may as well frame it along with the hair you pulled out having to deal with their "customer no-service" and hang it on the wall. Even if you are lucky enough after jumping through all of their hoops to finally have them agree to replace it you will still be out the shipping to send it back. Good customer service is what defines a company and what will keep Tower, Horizon and others on top.
I don't believe it's in HK business model to provide good customer service no matter what they say. Low prices alone can only take you so far.

GerKonig

[QUOTEA good example of this is where I used a 45C Turnigy Nano-Tec 1800 3S in an application where the motor draw was 60 amps. This should have been well within the batteries capability with 21 amps to spare but the pack puffed and was so hot it could not be touched for 15 minutes.

So I used a 45C Hyperion 1600 3S in the same plane with no problems at all, it flew longer, was only slightly warm to the touch, and it had a smaller margin of reserve current than the Turnigy pack yet it deliverd the goods. This caused me to wonder if the Turnigy packs are really 45C or something less with a lable slapped on it. Hyperion batteries are made in China by the way but only Hyperion sells them.

So there are applications where quality counts then there is just puttering around the sky drawing 1/3 of the batteries stated current. In those cases cheap packs are fine, I use Gens Ace packs for general run of the mill stuff and they do the job and last a long time if you don't abuse them.

And as I recall, Tunder Power batteries are made in the United States so no denial there. And there are plenty of other high quality RC products made here in America. I am curious though why someone who lives here in the USA would be so defensive of forign companies. I would like to think that we all would like to see our money go to support American manufacturers and destributors whenever possible. [/QUOTE]

I agree that some applications are very demanding, like in electric duct fan jets, racing, and others. I have no experience in those fields. My lipos have an easy life:-) And live long...

In a couple of weeks I will be purchasing a couple of batteries. I use mostly 5000 units. I will buy a total of 4 batteries: 2 x 4 cells and 2 x 6 cells batteries. I use 4 cells for my 40 size model, the 6 cell for my 1/4 scale 90 size electric RV-4, and then I combine 2x4 for my 1/4 scale Sig Clipped wing cub, and finally combine 4+6 cells for a total of 10 cells in series for my Giant Sweet Stick....

Now, I could buy Thunderpower 45C batteries (which some believe are made in the US), or Zippy's 45C which gave me a great service in the years past, or the Nanotechnology ones 45-90 or 35-70. So how do the prices compare?

Thunderpower 6 cell 215.99 (EACH) 4 cells 104.99 (EACH) Total cost for the 4 $620.00

OR

HK Zippy 45C 6 cells $ 80.51 (EACH) and 4 cell $ 53.14 (EACH) Total cost for the 4 $ 267.30

OR

Hobby King Nanotech batteries 35-70 at 91.28 for the 6 cell, nad $ 59.89 for the 4 cell for a total cost of $302.34

Tough decision. Obviously, they can keep their Thunderpower and their inflated price. It is tough to pick between the Zippy (Used them for many years with good results) or try the Nano tech that can be charged faster.

I bet HK sells a lot of batteries, same as Nitroplanes, Hobby-Parts, and others. I have been using 5000 packs for many years, and Tower obviously never went after that segment of the market.

As far a supporting American companies, I am and always will be a supporter of Balsa USA, Sig, Horizon, Tower, and others, but in my 40 years + I never owned a radio that was not Futaba, and that was not Japanese (well I bet my Futaba receivers are from China now). My Nikons were Japanese, but now even Nikon has lenses made in many countries, China included.

Gerry

2walla

My Feedback: (10)

Try the sky lipos from hobbypartz. They are great. The nanotechs require a lot more cooling to keep them from puffing than lower c rated batteries. If you dont have goog cooling for the battery stay away from nanotechs.

topspin

Like I said Gerry the HK batteries seem to be OK under moderate current requirements but my experience has been that they don't hold up under high loading. I think the Thunder Power cells are manufactured in Korea and the batteries are assembled and tested here in the uS. What you pay for is the high quality materials and the testing that goes into them. You may have noticed that TP batteries are lighter than other brands of the same current rating. that is a result of superrior materials and quality workmanship in the assembly process. Anyway, they come with a warranty that actually works even though I have never had to use it. I also have Thunder Power batteries that I purchased at my LHS in 2005 and I'm still using them, of course only to fly a slow stick and a cub but they still hold 100% charge so I guess any decent Lipo will last a long time if you treat them right.

Back on topic.....

The point of the discussion is that there is no customer service after the sale from Hobby King, never has been. I went through the drill with them a couple of times and the whole process is designed to stiff arm the customer and string them along with all kinds of silly promises until the 45 day PayPal window expires then you are hung out to dry. That is the one thing that is holding them back and it has been their problem since it was an internet business. There are threads on other sites going back more than 6 years with people calling them crooks and thieves. You would have to look long and hard to find very many true complaints about Tower or Horizon and never have they just taken someones money and kept it without shipping a product or failed to provide warranty service While we're at it, you can call almost any good hobby dealer in the US and get tecchnical information and advice on products they carry. Try doing that with Hobby King and see what happens. I know they have a website where 50 people who get paid two cents per answer will feed you something that may or may not be accurate but is just rediculous. I want to hear it from the seller not the chearleading squad.

So like I said before, I am sure Hobby King has some Lipo batteries that are fine in applications where you are not pushing the envelope on power. The problem is when they fail and the unpleasant non-warranty process which was already so aptly described by Flyinwalenda.

GerKonig

Topspin, I am not a person that is a "loyal" customer for no good reason. As long as I am happy, I buy from a source, when disappointed, I move on. I am always looking for prices and alternative sources. I have kept loyal to 2 brands only in my life:-) Nikon and Futaba.

You mentioned a Nitroplanes battery, and I researched that. They have 30C 5,000 4S $79.95 and 6 cells $92.36. also 60C $77.90 and $161.85 respectively.

My first big Lipo was purchased from Hobby-Lobby, it was a Thunderpower, it lasted 3 years. My second one (following a suggestion of a club member) was a HK, and it lasted the same as the Hobby-Lobby one, but at a fraction of the price.

Then I bought a 1300 Thunderpower for a TMoth foamy because it was recommended by the reviewer. This battery while true, only was able to be charged fully for 2 years, lasted more than any other battery I had. I tossed it last year (would only take 350ma charge. But it was 7 years old! So, while my experience with them was good, the prices were always out of reason for me, and my application.

Since then, all were HK... Lucky? Maybe. Loyal customer? Never:-) Another thing, all this time I was only able to charge at 1C, because I had the first Astro Lipo charger. Great charger, but no balancing, and max 1C:-) Maybe charging 1C helped me "be lucky" with my lipos. I do not know, no way to prove this...

Gerry

GerKonig

Thank you for the suggestion, will keep an eye on them. I just checked, and many of the batteries they advertise they do not have stock right now. The prices are not bad 5000 60C $77.50 and 6 C $161.85 and 30C $79.95 and $92.36 respectively, but no all are in stock.

Gerry

MinnSpin

My Feedback: (40)

Kinda cool to have a thread hit the homepage RCU heartbeat section.
In follow-up to some of the "Buy American" responses - and relating to the big box companies such as Tower, Hobbico, etc - what do you suppose the percentage of products actually Made in America and then resold by these domestic houses might be? For that matter - what percentage of our hobby is made in the states?

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Not sure what the percentage plays out to be, however you can bet it is little to none. Very few guys will acknowledge it until you show them the proof. We still manufacture some here in the states yet it is not much anymore. We as a country have pretty much sold out.

topspin

That would be a great subject for a seperate discussion but I like the idea.

topspin

Nice post #56 Gerry. Since your post was completly off topic I am compelled to ask you. Do you get paid or compensated by Hobby King to go on various websites and promote their products?

GerKonig

It would be nice to be compensated by HK, Hobbico, Sig, Balsa USA, Nitroplanes, Horizon, people I buy glue from (various brands, do not recall names, epoxies some from tower), Rimfire, Nikon, Honda, Mercury, New Balance, US Air, United, American, Pepsi, and all the people that manufacture the products and services I use. But, no. Nothing. Zip zero nada. And I pay for what I buy:-)

And you seem fixated with one toy supplier in particular, HK, who pays you?:-) How much do you get for advertising the overpriced batteries?

I do not promote anybody's products, but the question posed on this thread is HK impact. And I do believe that on some of the items they sell they had a big impact. Because they work. In my PERSONAL experience, lipos, life batteries, controllers, cables and one charger. Plus I see people in my field using their products. That is my personal experience.

Gerry
I forgot: Hangar 9, Great Planes, Dell, Europacar, Eurailpass, Sullivan, Hitec, Budweiser, Gallo Spirits, and many others that do not pay me either... sorry you cannot seem to see the light, I added additional names in thes post, so you do not say I only name HK. In post 56 I actually have mentioned various companies, fact you seem to have overlooked.

topspin

Uncle Sam pays me for 28 years of abuse.

GerKonig

What do you know, he is also one of my customers:-) We definitely need one hobby, that's why I have 3.

Gerry

mikes68charger

My Feedback: (34)

I think it has an an impact on diffrent parts of our hobby, I would venture to say the biggest impact that HK has made has been in the EDF market.

I was able to build a 115mm 4.5in EDF with 15pounds of thrust with great esc for under $200 shipped, I think this has stepped on compishion a little as most non foamy edf are typicly built not expsted to fly in ARF form.

So when you compair my $200 vs the closes competors cost $500-650 just for the edf not even includeing there recomend $200 esc, its hard to tuch HK, not to include lipos, while most of us know not all of HK lipos are worth a dang, for most it lets us lower budget guys get more electric flight for our bucks. Yes a Thunder power "may" last 4 times longer, but with most new flyers crashing all the time, some lipos are lucky to make it throw a flying year with out damage anyway.

Lets face it, I got a parkzone corsair, I can go to my local hobby store and pay $35 for a little 2200 30c parkzone lipo, or get them from HK USA for $13 each and they work better!!

So I would say HK, tower, and Dreamworks have kept me out of a local hobby store for over a year now.

The only time I would got to a local hobby store and pay the higher prices was when I first started flying Helis and was crashing all the time, it is very nice to go somewere and get all the parts you need and be flying the next day.

But for 90% of the birds I fly now, The hobby store dose not have any parts I need or could use exsept smoke fluid.


But to be honest, For lipos that Im going to push hard its Glacer Lipos for me, the guy who sells them is a 20min drive from my house, and they have really handled any abuse I can throw at them,

exsample, Hanger 9 Jackel, with a Eflite 500kv 700heli motor on 3300 30c 12s! pulling 145amps with a HK YEP 120HV 12s ESC. I have put over 40 flights pulling these huge crazy amps, yes with my timer set at 2:40 sec but when my jet is doing 160mph + and kicking the crap out of my boys falcon 120 with VT80

mikes68charger

My Feedback: (34)

I agree with this, I have converted all my Gaint warbirds and 4 Turbine jets all to HK Life reciver packs, as for $9 each they work better and are cheaper than anything I could find state side. Yes I run 2 sep Life packs with there own swiches into 2 diffrent ports on my reciver for reduntancy, but I would do the same even if I was useing Higher $$ life packs.

I love Tower hobbies, but Horzon Hobbies has just came out with the first product I have thought of getting, The $999.00 60cc corsair, but the fact you can only get your retracts (robart) from them, and I wanted a 7 cyclinder motor they sell, but with not even a little discount or help with shipping, Im going to go with the TopFlite, not becouse its better but becouse in the end of the day its almost 1/2 the price and I only got so many $$$

Mitsu1

My Feedback: (13)

It seems those who complain about HK can actually track a lot of their problems to themselves for not being more savy shoppers. when I buy from HK I always read closely and consider things like whether the item is available from the USA warehouse or not. I always carefully select the proper shipping method, balancing cost with time of delivery.( I once ordered a spinner and a 2S battery pack from the International Warehouse in Hong Kong, paid $2.80 shipping through their "Swiss Post" option, and received the order in 7 days total. Can't complain about that!) I've never had anything lost, or delivered in over 11 days. The prices are untouchable by Tower and Hobbico. That spinner was a 4.5" Carbon Fiber with an Alloy backplate and was of the highest quality imaginable, and I only paid $30 for it! That would have been an $80 or more spinner most anywhere else in the world. I don't get what the complaint is about shipping costs? I bought a DLE 55 when they first came out and only paid $304 + $17 shipping, when they were being sold for $370 - $409 plus at least that same amount in shipping here. Just bought solid aluminum 2" CNC cut Futaba servo arms for $1.76 each, where everywhere else over here wants $10 each for aluminum servo arms. I stocked up on these! .... Seems like sour grapes from the complainers. I'm glad HK is here.

MinnSpin

My Feedback: (40)

Good Idea, a new posting is in the making.

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

you just cant make everyone happy

2walla

My Feedback: (10)

Face it 99% of the stuff in our hobby comes from overseas and the majority is coming from china. Hobbyking has all the advantage, the stuff is made in their backyard, they speak the language, and they understand how manufacturing works there. They do have some good quality stuff but you have to do some research on it. Read the reviews on their site and you will see many comments such as "this is the exact same thing tower/horizon sells for 20x the price" (Especially in the hardware odds and end stuff.) look at all of the old KMP planes hobby king sells for 1/4 the price he used to get for them. Who provided feedback, quality control, etc and improved them only to be cut out in the end? It will happen to horizon and tower eventually. Just a matter of time..

Rob2160

This should do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-mGEuxyo0

falcon_56

Competition is good for any industry.

With that in mind, it is also important to know that sales shape the industry. To keep a balance both the cheap, low quality, low customer service and the more expensive, better quality and customer support suppliers must stay in business improving by learning from each other. If you eliminate one of them, then the only victims are the hobby and its customers.

I for one would hate if the only choice to get my hobby supplies is an overseas mail order with a four week wait and the customer support for a non working product is the trash can.

We must keep all these guys in business if we want our hobby to continue to be affordable, but at the same time having the options to get diversity of products that work as expected with top notch quality and good service and customer support.

downunderdog

I think that HK has taken a lot of business away from the higher priced stores, but it has also made the hobby affordable enough that more people are doing it, so that probably eventually leads to more sales for everyone.

If it weren't for decently priced parts and batteries at HK, I probably would have dropped out of the hobby... but one of the coolest parts of RC Airplanes is that you can buy a bunch of components for cheap from places like HK and make a plane that flies well. Buying servos for $15 at a LHS I would not experiment around as much, but when you can get the HXT900 servos for under $3 each and an orange receiver for under $10, it is a lot easier.

I think that the pricing competition from places like HK has made the price of everything in the hobby go down to some extent, so you guys who would never buy from them can than those of us who do for keeping the pricing at all of the shops more in line than it would have been. Local shops in Australia were TERRIBLE about marking up prices to ridiculous levels (maybe it's due to the distributors?), but now some of them are selling HK parts at reasonable mark-ups from the HK direct prices.

zacharyR

My Feedback: (5)

hobby king is probably responsible for the reasonable price of lipo's right now you would have to be a fool to think that hobby king did not affect the US market on lipo's you can argue all day long that hobby king doesn't do anything to market but i they have alot of products and they move alot of products now with mulit page adds in the AMA mag , and USA warehouse someones buying somthing form them for sure.. and that person is not buying them from the oppset of hobby king so its fairly easy to answer the O.P

yep they have changed the market

topspin

Really? So who is responsible for the reductions in the cost of Lap Tops, Tablets, TV's, and all home entertaiment electronics? By the way, almost all of those things use Lithium batteries in them so I am convinced that the price would have dropped even if Hobby King never existed because the market price of anything is driven by supply and demand. Manufacturing costs of Lipos has been reduced considerably since I started buying them in 2000 and again Im pretty certain that large Japanese battery makers like Sanyo lead the way on that. Nope, can't agree that HK had anything to do with consumer prices.

The only market they have impacted is their own by losing customers with their horrible customer service.