Troybuiltmodels just lost another customer
03-02-2014, 10:56 AM
#26
Retail Math
If the retailer were to ship out another servo, the shipping cost would probably be at least $2.50. If they paid return shipping then add another $2.50.
NOT ALL SUPPLIERS accept returns in this business and often ones that do will only accept returns for some items and not for others. Worse, some suppliers will claim that the failure was due to mishandling on the part of the retail customer and refuse credit EVEN AFTER THE DEALER PAID TO SHIP THE ITEM BACK TO THE SUPPLIER. The dealer is out even more money.
Therefore If he bought the servo direct from China or from an uncooperative supplier then he probably can't return it so he is out $10.50 plus $5.00 for shipping.
Question: How many additional servos would he have to sell to break even? I'm thinking just over 6 servos, and that covers just the product, not the fixed expenses involved with keeping the doors open. So he sells the next 6 to 10 servos at no profit hoping none of those are bad. Imagine if they were $50 servos!
It's easy to see that it's not just a few bucks to ship out another servo. The problem is much more complex from the retail side of things.
The retailer is stuck between remaining relevant in a cheapest possible product environment and providing a positive customer experience.
If the retailer were to ship out another servo, the shipping cost would probably be at least $2.50. If they paid return shipping then add another $2.50.
NOT ALL SUPPLIERS accept returns in this business and often ones that do will only accept returns for some items and not for others. Worse, some suppliers will claim that the failure was due to mishandling on the part of the retail customer and refuse credit EVEN AFTER THE DEALER PAID TO SHIP THE ITEM BACK TO THE SUPPLIER. The dealer is out even more money.
Therefore If he bought the servo direct from China or from an uncooperative supplier then he probably can't return it so he is out $10.50 plus $5.00 for shipping.
Question: How many additional servos would he have to sell to break even? I'm thinking just over 6 servos, and that covers just the product, not the fixed expenses involved with keeping the doors open. So he sells the next 6 to 10 servos at no profit hoping none of those are bad. Imagine if they were $50 servos!
It's easy to see that it's not just a few bucks to ship out another servo. The problem is much more complex from the retail side of things.
The retailer is stuck between remaining relevant in a cheapest possible product environment and providing a positive customer experience.
03-02-2014, 10:58 AM
#27
As a former hobby shop owner I can say that most people don't realize that it costs money to provide customer service. The constant quest for the absolute lowest price has reduced profits to the point of being destructive to the concept of customer service.
Although there are some people that will happily pay a bit more for products to insure adequate profits and customer support, the reality is their numbers are too few. Most people are cheapskates!
We have ourselves to blame for poor products AND poor service, don't blame the retailer. I guarantee if TBM made 40% on that servo they would be happy to replace it.
This is one of the reasons for MAP pricing, (minimum advertised pricing) in this and other consumer product markets. It provides a guaranteed profit margin to the retailer so that hopefully he will provide a level of customer support for those products.
When it comes to servos I buy Hitec exclusively. They support their product, but the servos do cost a few dollars more. You get what you pay for.
Although there are some people that will happily pay a bit more for products to insure adequate profits and customer support, the reality is their numbers are too few. Most people are cheapskates!
We have ourselves to blame for poor products AND poor service, don't blame the retailer. I guarantee if TBM made 40% on that servo they would be happy to replace it.
This is one of the reasons for MAP pricing, (minimum advertised pricing) in this and other consumer product markets. It provides a guaranteed profit margin to the retailer so that hopefully he will provide a level of customer support for those products.
When it comes to servos I buy Hitec exclusively. They support their product, but the servos do cost a few dollars more. You get what you pay for.
Most of my suppliers would stand behind their products, but every now and then it was a dog fight to get some of them to do what was right. The vendors that I fought with would wind up losing my business if I could find product anywhere else and I would tell my customers that vendor so and so won't warranty so buy it and understand they won't. Also, I will get it for you and not stand behind it if you definitely want it.
03-02-2014, 11:19 AM
#29
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If I may. If TBM's business model is to say "you should expect that". Well my expectations are when buying a product even for 1.00 is for that product to work, PERIOD. It does not matter if the product was bought at a LHS or online. The retailer adverstised a product and the buyer expects for it to work. It is just good business. When you receive a non working product, it should be replaced free of charge from whomever you bought it from if it was new when purchased.
I don't care one iota about their profit margin, when it domes to defective merchandise. This is why I do not buy from most mail order comapnies. I will buy from tower and try my best to support the brick and mortar hobby houses. I even ask my LHS to order for me at times. I find this to be a better way to get "customer service". But TBM will not ever receive a dime from me.
Regards
Glenn Williams
I don't care one iota about their profit margin, when it domes to defective merchandise. This is why I do not buy from most mail order comapnies. I will buy from tower and try my best to support the brick and mortar hobby houses. I even ask my LHS to order for me at times. I find this to be a better way to get "customer service". But TBM will not ever receive a dime from me.
Regards
Glenn Williams
03-02-2014, 01:59 PM
#31
Retail Math
If the retailer were to ship out another servo, the shipping cost would probably be at least $2.50. If they paid return shipping then add another $2.50.
NOT ALL SUPPLIERS accept returns in this business and often ones that do will only accept returns for some items and not for others. Worse, some suppliers will claim that the failure was due to mishandling on the part of the retail customer and refuse credit EVEN AFTER THE DEALER PAID TO SHIP THE ITEM BACK TO THE SUPPLIER. The dealer is out even more money.
Therefore If he bought the servo direct from China or from an uncooperative supplier then he probably can't return it so he is out $10.50 plus $5.00 for shipping.
Question: How many additional servos would he have to sell to break even? I'm thinking just over 6 servos, and that covers just the product, not the fixed expenses involved with keeping the doors open. So he sells the next 6 to 10 servos at no profit hoping none of those are bad. Imagine if they were $50 servos!
It's easy to see that it's not just a few bucks to ship out another servo. The problem is much more complex from the retail side of things.
The retailer is stuck between remaining relevant in a cheapest possible product environment and providing a positive customer experience.
If the retailer were to ship out another servo, the shipping cost would probably be at least $2.50. If they paid return shipping then add another $2.50.
NOT ALL SUPPLIERS accept returns in this business and often ones that do will only accept returns for some items and not for others. Worse, some suppliers will claim that the failure was due to mishandling on the part of the retail customer and refuse credit EVEN AFTER THE DEALER PAID TO SHIP THE ITEM BACK TO THE SUPPLIER. The dealer is out even more money.
Therefore If he bought the servo direct from China or from an uncooperative supplier then he probably can't return it so he is out $10.50 plus $5.00 for shipping.
Question: How many additional servos would he have to sell to break even? I'm thinking just over 6 servos, and that covers just the product, not the fixed expenses involved with keeping the doors open. So he sells the next 6 to 10 servos at no profit hoping none of those are bad. Imagine if they were $50 servos!
It's easy to see that it's not just a few bucks to ship out another servo. The problem is much more complex from the retail side of things.
The retailer is stuck between remaining relevant in a cheapest possible product environment and providing a positive customer experience.
03-02-2014, 02:25 PM
#32
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That problem is not only with Troy Bilt but with Grayson Hobbies to. Purchased an electric setup for a 60 size airplane Paid $200 for motor,ESC, and 2 6cell Grayson Gold Lipo batteries. Here is the sticky part after some time past, assembled the plane put the motor ESC and battery in and the motor had a slow turn to it . Had some friends that are electric flyer's check it and said the motor had a bad spot.Sent it back to Grayson the VERDICT was YOU HAD IT FOR 60 DAY'S NO WARRANTY.Any one want to buy 100AMP ESC and 2 six cell battery's.They also don't know what happened to the motor.
03-02-2014, 03:14 PM
#33
I do not buy much from TBM because while their prices are comparable, their shipping is relatively outrageous for smaller items. Most other places have special rates for smaller items. If am buying online, I stick with Horizon. If there is a problem with something, Horizon typically takes care of it w/o question, and ... they are quick about it. But, typically, I stick with the two LHSes, unless they can't get something I need. And, ... I have to travel ~150 miles round trip to get to either of them. If we don't buy from them today, they will be gone tomorrow.
03-02-2014, 03:47 PM
#34
Bottom line is this:
If buying products at the lowest possible price is most important to you, then you should EXPECT to encounter these problems from time to time.
When you do encounter problems then it IS indeed YOUR problem as it is clear some online dealers will not support the products they sell regardless of the reason for refusing to do so.
Minimizing problems is as simple as restricting your purchases to name brand products from known reputable dealers.
Buy it cheap and you may be buying it twice!
If buying products at the lowest possible price is most important to you, then you should EXPECT to encounter these problems from time to time.
When you do encounter problems then it IS indeed YOUR problem as it is clear some online dealers will not support the products they sell regardless of the reason for refusing to do so.
Minimizing problems is as simple as restricting your purchases to name brand products from known reputable dealers.
Buy it cheap and you may be buying it twice!
03-02-2014, 04:14 PM
#36
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Bottom line is this:
If buying products at the lowest possible price is most important to you, then you should EXPECT to encounter these problems from time to time.
When you do encounter problems then it IS indeed YOUR problem as it is clear some online dealers will not support the products they sell regardless of the reason for refusing to do so.
Minimizing problems is as simple as restricting your purchases to name brand products from known reputable dealers.
Buy it cheap and you may be buying it twice!
If buying products at the lowest possible price is most important to you, then you should EXPECT to encounter these problems from time to time.
When you do encounter problems then it IS indeed YOUR problem as it is clear some online dealers will not support the products they sell regardless of the reason for refusing to do so.
Minimizing problems is as simple as restricting your purchases to name brand products from known reputable dealers.
Buy it cheap and you may be buying it twice!
TBM is making the CHOICE, intentionally, to provide sub-par service.
Period.
03-02-2014, 07:14 PM
#40
Bottom line is this:
If buying products at the lowest possible price is most important to you, then you should EXPECT to encounter these problems from time to time.
When you do encounter problems then it IS indeed YOUR problem as it is clear some online dealers will not support the products they sell regardless of the reason for refusing to do so.
Minimizing problems is as simple as restricting your purchases to name brand products from known reputable dealers.
Buy it cheap and you may be buying it twice!
If buying products at the lowest possible price is most important to you, then you should EXPECT to encounter these problems from time to time.
When you do encounter problems then it IS indeed YOUR problem as it is clear some online dealers will not support the products they sell regardless of the reason for refusing to do so.
Minimizing problems is as simple as restricting your purchases to name brand products from known reputable dealers.
Buy it cheap and you may be buying it twice!
I'm not strapped for cash in anyway, but that doesn't mean I don't look for a deal. I've spent many years running nothing but JR,DA and other high end equipment. Nowadays there is a huge amount of off brand products that are worth trying and I've been lucky to find a few gems (valley view engines, eme engines, XQ servos etc). I still own and buy the high end stuff, but I'm not stuffing a $1000 engine into a arf that I have no attachement to. I don't put a $13 servo into my Comp arf corsair, it goes into my TF FW190
03-02-2014, 11:03 PM
#42
Personally I buy from Tower all the time. Like the guy above I got a broken canopy (broke during shipping I suppose) I called and they sent a new one no questions asked. Was told to not bother sending the old one back. Now that's customer service. Good luck.
03-03-2014, 03:20 AM
#44
Tower is pretty good if you use the super saver and one thing is for sure, you can bat about 100% with their service without a question asked. The only thing is Tower does not have some of the items we use so we do have to look elsewhere. I buy a good bit from Tower and have never been dissatisfied with their customer service.
03-03-2014, 06:07 AM
#45
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Same here with Tower. I happen to like Ugly Stiks, on a couple of occasions when I got a plane the little tab that locks the wing to the fuselage was broken. All it takes is the bubble wrap to be too tight and this happens when they pack it in the factory. Tower has sent me new wing sets with no problem. They tell me just to keep the damaged ones. Now to me that's great customer service! They are also the only major retailer that supports our annual air show with product donations every year! We also have a dynamite lady that has a hobby shop and she knows her stuff. It's a little bit of a drive but well worth it.
03-03-2014, 07:16 AM
#46
Tower is pretty good if you use the super saver and one thing is for sure, you can bat about 100% with their service without a question asked. The only thing is Tower does not have some of the items we use so we do have to look elsewhere. I buy a good bit from Tower and have never been dissatisfied with their customer service.
03-03-2014, 08:22 AM
#47
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In no way am I defending TBM, I've had my own issues with htem, but, how long ago did you email them and how can you be sure they even got it? I think it's a little premature to start a dump on TBM thread when you haven't even picked up the phone and called them. Sounds like a little effort on your part could get the ball rolling. Just my $.02.
03-03-2014, 04:52 PM
#50
As a former hobby shop owner I can say that most people don't realize that it costs money to provide customer service. The constant quest for the absolute lowest price has reduced profits to the point of being destructive to the concept of customer service.
Although there are some people that will happily pay a bit more for products to insure adequate profits and customer support, the reality is their numbers are too few. Most people are cheapskates!
We have ourselves to blame for poor products AND poor service, don't blame the retailer. I guarantee if TBM made 40% on that servo they would be happy to replace it.
This is one of the reasons for MAP pricing, (minimum advertised pricing) in this and other consumer product markets. It provides a guaranteed profit margin to the retailer so that hopefully he will provide a level of customer support for those products.
When it comes to servos I buy Hitec exclusively. They support their product, but the servos do cost a few dollars more. You get what you pay for.
Although there are some people that will happily pay a bit more for products to insure adequate profits and customer support, the reality is their numbers are too few. Most people are cheapskates!
We have ourselves to blame for poor products AND poor service, don't blame the retailer. I guarantee if TBM made 40% on that servo they would be happy to replace it.
This is one of the reasons for MAP pricing, (minimum advertised pricing) in this and other consumer product markets. It provides a guaranteed profit margin to the retailer so that hopefully he will provide a level of customer support for those products.
When it comes to servos I buy Hitec exclusively. They support their product, but the servos do cost a few dollars more. You get what you pay for.