Super tiger 3000
06-01-2014, 08:38 AM
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Super tiger 3000
Hi guys. I just purchased a Super Tiger 3000 for a 1/4 scale, I have two problems first super tiger is telling me to run 15% oil are they talking about 4 stroke fuel, I have only seen 10% for this type motor. The second problem is that they are talking about a cold plug with an idle bar, I didn't know they made a cold plug. The motor seems to be running a little warm,I have set everything as I was told to do anybody have an answer, Thanks to all.
06-05-2014, 03:06 PM
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I think most two stroke glow fuels readily available these days have 16-18% oil in them. That is too much for the big Super Tigres and will cause them to run hot. Even 15% is more than I would recommend except, possibly, for the break-in period. I always ran 12% oil in all my ST2500-3000 motors with nary a problem. I don't recall ever needing anything special in regards to the glow plug. I think I generally ran a Fox idle bar plug if memory serves.
06-08-2014, 05:11 AM
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Hi guys. Well I tried all of the things you said about fuel, I have the motor running good on the ground idels nice and peeks up good now I am having trouble with over heating . I fly once around the field and it will slow down and shut off. one time it was smoking it was so hot. Now I am not sure what is causing this to happen? any ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
06-08-2014, 01:31 PM
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Is the engine cowled and, if so, do you have adequate airflow both in and out? Also, did you reduce the oil content of your fuel? I promise you that the ST like fuel with no more than 12% oil and too much oil WILL cause it to run hot. Sounds counter intuitive I know but it is true none the less.
PS - Last, but not least, have you tried a good quality glow plug? It's amazing just how many engine problems I've seen solved by simply putting in a brand new high quality plug.
PS - Last, but not least, have you tried a good quality glow plug? It's amazing just how many engine problems I've seen solved by simply putting in a brand new high quality plug.
06-10-2014, 09:45 PM
#9
Please explain how too much oil makes ANY type of machinery run hotter than running less oil.
I would rather "buy into" the notion that the engine has too much compression to be running ANY nitro.
In general, you want to use the least amount of compression and nitro that will do the job.. no matter what it is you are running..
I would rather "buy into" the notion that the engine has too much compression to be running ANY nitro.
In general, you want to use the least amount of compression and nitro that will do the job.. no matter what it is you are running..
Last edited by combatpigg; 06-10-2014 at 09:50 PM.
06-11-2014, 06:54 AM
#10
My Feedback: (21)
The problem with running more than recommended oil in the big ST engines is the compression ratio. Oil doesn't burn (unless you lean the heck out of the engine) so the excessive oil effectively raises the compression ratio since it is incompressible. Or as ST puts it "The use of over 12% oil is highly prejudicial to engine performance" Always get a kick out of reading that part! So don't use over 12% low nitro fuel. I make special 5% nitro and 12% oil for my big STs. The 4500 runs great on 10% oil no nitro fuel. The 2500, 3000, 3250 engines like a little more oil and some nitro, they actually run worse on standard 18% oil and 15% nitro fuel. I guess since the engine is pre detonating (knocking) because of the higher compression ratio it might over heat, maybe? Have started running some of my big ST engines again since I switched to gas ten years ago. I am amazed with the ease of use and performance of these engines compared to gassers. Cost of fuel used to be a problem but with gas and oil running around 6 to 7 dollars a gallon the alcohol fuel is not so out of range anymore. For up to 80 inch war birds the 2500 range of ST engines are quite cost and performance effective, A 3000 should have about the same performance of a 40 to 50 cc gasser. My 4500 flies a 27lb plane like one of my 4.2 Sachs engines.
Larry
Larry
06-11-2014, 04:40 PM
#12
My Feedback: (28)
I ran one for years on omega 15% nitro 2 stroke and only used OS type F plugs. No problems...plenty of power. Most of the time with a 3000 if you have trouble the fuel nipple on the carburetor pointing the wrong direction. It needs to point at exactly the rear mount hole n the mount tab on the engine.
06-12-2014, 07:06 AM
#13
I've got a few smaller Tigres, and a big G2300. All Tigres under the 2500 need 18% oil minimum. The 3000 and up need 8-12% oil normally. More oil won't make them run hot but moreso be burbly in the midrange. The Italian made engines are designed for 0-5% nitro, use no more than that if yours is Italian. The Chinese made engines are similar, most run better on less nitro. The ST carbs are not setup like typical 2-needle carbs. If you try to set them up like other 2N carbs, you will have problems. My process for setting them is this: peak the main needle using the pinch test. Go to WOT starting rich and lean down until a quick pinch near the carb doesn't raise or lower the RPM. Next set the idle needle for a stable low idle rpm of 2,500-2,900rpm. It should hold a steady speed for at least 20 seconds without slowing down or quitting. Now throttle it up to WOT from idle quickly. If it is not quick and smooth, it's likely rich and burbly. Adjust the spraybar angle to adjust the transition, not the needles. I suggest changing the angle just a few degrees at a time until the transition evens out. Note: after a spraybar adjustment, the main needle will need to be readjusted to maintain the peak setting. Changing the the spraybar angle leans the midrange. Once the engine is idling nice and low and transitioning properly, go back to WOT and set it richer with a pinch to gain 500-700rpm with a full tank of fuel. This is all said with the assumption that the cowling is set up for proper cooling if a cowl is used. Exit area = 2X inlet area.
My SuperTigre S90K would quit and not run reliably at all until A) I got a couple 2-3 gallons through it. B) I had to set the main needle with a pinch so it picked up a good amount of rpm; 500-800rpm rich of peak. The typical 200-300rpm (2-3 clicks) was too lean! C) Set the spraybar so it pointed towards the hole in the mount lug towards the back of the engine. D) Use a HOT Long Reach glow plug without idle bar. Once I got that 2-3 gallons through it, I had to move the spraybar back to straight in and now it throttles like a dream even with a Jettstream tuned muffler and a small prop.
I use 5% nitro in all of my Tigres, McCoy MC59 glow plugs, APC props, and only castor oil in the fuel. All of my Tigres call for 18% oil minimum, I use 20% just because. I don't like running my engines on the ragged edge of crazy so I use good oil and a bit fat and they seem to like it.
Hope this is helpful to someone, it works fantastic for me.
End of ridiculously long post.
My SuperTigre S90K would quit and not run reliably at all until A) I got a couple 2-3 gallons through it. B) I had to set the main needle with a pinch so it picked up a good amount of rpm; 500-800rpm rich of peak. The typical 200-300rpm (2-3 clicks) was too lean! C) Set the spraybar so it pointed towards the hole in the mount lug towards the back of the engine. D) Use a HOT Long Reach glow plug without idle bar. Once I got that 2-3 gallons through it, I had to move the spraybar back to straight in and now it throttles like a dream even with a Jettstream tuned muffler and a small prop.
I use 5% nitro in all of my Tigres, McCoy MC59 glow plugs, APC props, and only castor oil in the fuel. All of my Tigres call for 18% oil minimum, I use 20% just because. I don't like running my engines on the ragged edge of crazy so I use good oil and a bit fat and they seem to like it.
Hope this is helpful to someone, it works fantastic for me.
End of ridiculously long post.
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 06-12-2014 at 07:12 AM.
06-13-2014, 01:23 AM
#15
06-14-2014, 03:34 AM
#17
There was a single head gasket, yes. The head spacing/squish clearance would be rather tight without it in place though - less than .010" IIRC. I prefer to have .012-.015" to be safe. Even if the tuning window was more than 3 clicks, I'd still run a little nitro anyway because the engine will not make the same power without nitro as it does with nitro even if the head is shimmed just right and the perfect glow plug is used. If I had the means, I'd make my own shims and custom shim the head and/or liner for optimum compression ratios, port timing, and squish clearances for all of my engines. I'd also tailor each engine with the glow plug it runs optimally with, but I don't have the money to buy all of the stuff I'd need to do that. I don't have the time or money to mess with it. My Tigres run fine on 5% and peak out 500-800rpm higher with a tuned muffler on that fuel. The tuning window is 6-7 clicks with that setup and that's fine with me.
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 06-14-2014 at 03:36 AM.
06-14-2014, 12:33 PM
#18
Thanks 1QwkSprt.
With my sources of cheap, LHS fuel no longer close by, I bought a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $3 per gallon and a couple cases of SIG castor and Klotz.
I used to have a VP racing fuel dealer close by to buy 5 gallon cans of nitro from, but last time I checked they were gone.
So, I am learning to make due with less nitro. I refuse to pay the price for pre-mixed gallons delivered to my door now.
I've noticed that it doesn't take very much nitro to add quite a bit of power and an easier to tune idle.
0% nitro engines are designed with really tight head clearances and volumes, making them easy to flood and hydraulic lock. You are playing it smart with the minimum clearances you called out.
I'd like to get one of the larger ST engines someday. I did own the ST .90 briefly but sold it because it seemed to have too much vibration.
With my sources of cheap, LHS fuel no longer close by, I bought a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $3 per gallon and a couple cases of SIG castor and Klotz.
I used to have a VP racing fuel dealer close by to buy 5 gallon cans of nitro from, but last time I checked they were gone.
So, I am learning to make due with less nitro. I refuse to pay the price for pre-mixed gallons delivered to my door now.
I've noticed that it doesn't take very much nitro to add quite a bit of power and an easier to tune idle.
0% nitro engines are designed with really tight head clearances and volumes, making them easy to flood and hydraulic lock. You are playing it smart with the minimum clearances you called out.
I'd like to get one of the larger ST engines someday. I did own the ST .90 briefly but sold it because it seemed to have too much vibration.
06-14-2014, 12:58 PM
#19
Thanks 1QwkSprt.
With my sources of cheap, LHS fuel no longer close by, I bought a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $3 per gallon and a couple cases of SIG castor and Klotz.
I used to have a VP racing fuel dealer close by to buy 5 gallon cans of nitro from, but last time I checked they were gone.
So, I am learning to make due with less nitro. I refuse to pay the price for pre-mixed gallons delivered to my door now.
I've noticed that it doesn't take very much nitro to add quite a bit of power and an easier to tune idle.
0% nitro engines are designed with really tight head clearances and volumes, making them easy to flood and hydraulic lock. You are playing it smart with the minimum clearances you called out.
I'd like to get one of the larger ST engines someday. I did own the ST .90 briefly but sold it because it seemed to have too much vibration.
With my sources of cheap, LHS fuel no longer close by, I bought a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $3 per gallon and a couple cases of SIG castor and Klotz.
I used to have a VP racing fuel dealer close by to buy 5 gallon cans of nitro from, but last time I checked they were gone.
So, I am learning to make due with less nitro. I refuse to pay the price for pre-mixed gallons delivered to my door now.
I've noticed that it doesn't take very much nitro to add quite a bit of power and an easier to tune idle.
0% nitro engines are designed with really tight head clearances and volumes, making them easy to flood and hydraulic lock. You are playing it smart with the minimum clearances you called out.
I'd like to get one of the larger ST engines someday. I did own the ST .90 briefly but sold it because it seemed to have too much vibration.
As you can see in my Sig, I run mostly European engines that run great on low nitro fuel. My Jett gets 15% nitro and my car engines get 20-30% nitro depending on my mood. The Super Tigres I have are all Italian made so are designed for low nitro. The big ones do vibrate a bit; a well balanced prop (blades and hub) is paramount. I run my .90 at 14k on the tuned muffler on an airboat and even using a well balanced prop it still has vibration issues. A bubble free tank is a must. I have an S29 on a full pipe I run at 17k and a G51 I'm modding to spin a 10x6 APC at 16,000 on a 1/4 wave Jett pipe. My G2300 is Chinese and is getting traded for something else. Probably another Enya. I love my Enyas. I'm an engine nerd and have far more engines than models to put them in. I like to just run engines on the bench from time to time. I built a custom test stand for my somewhat rare Fox 1.20 twin cylinder glow engine. It's got about the same power as a strong .91, maybe a 1.0ci. I'll put hat on a big slow floaty biplane or warbird.
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 06-14-2014 at 01:01 PM.
06-14-2014, 03:33 PM
#20
My "theory" about the ST .90 is that it is an over bored .60..? Chances are good that the piston is a bit too heavy. If so, I would test that theory with a prop that is out of balance and mount the heavy side opposite the piston. The out of balance prop idea involves a certain amount of luck, depending on how much the imbalance is but it doesn't take too much effort to experiment.
If my suspicion rings true, then there's always extra material inside the piston that can be removed.
Playing this game can be like the moustache trim that Larry or Curly gave to Moe....but I've had good luck so far with time spent on out of balance issues.
If my suspicion rings true, then there's always extra material inside the piston that can be removed.
Playing this game can be like the moustache trim that Larry or Curly gave to Moe....but I've had good luck so far with time spent on out of balance issues.
06-14-2014, 03:57 PM
#21
Most of the .90/.91s on the market today are in .61 sized crankcases. The kicker is some of the .90s are lighter than the .60s because the steel liner is thinner. Even though the aluminum piston is bigger, it still ends up a bit lighter. This isn't true for all .90s, but many. As a rule of thumb, the larger the displacement the more it's likely to vibrate, especially if it's a single cylinder. The size of the crankcase has little to do with it I think.
06-14-2014, 05:16 PM
#22
The engine itself is lighter because of the thinner liner, but I'll bet the larger .90 size piston is heavier than the original .60 sized unit. Fractions of a gram add up with rpm.
The original .60 sized ST crank was most likely designed to counterbalance a .60 sized piston and if the company used the same crank for the .75 and the .90 then there you go.
This was a topic that Clarence Lee brought up in one of his columns, but I don't recall if he used the ST .60 .75 .90 as examples or a different brand.
The original .60 sized ST crank was most likely designed to counterbalance a .60 sized piston and if the company used the same crank for the .75 and the .90 then there you go.
This was a topic that Clarence Lee brought up in one of his columns, but I don't recall if he used the ST .60 .75 .90 as examples or a different brand.
06-14-2014, 05:27 PM
#23
I wish I has an ST S60 to compare to. Likely you are correct, I do not doubt that. But I do wonder if they used a different crankshaft for the .90. Given how innovative Juares Garafoli was, I suspect he used the same crank for the .60, .75, and .90 but made it extra beefy. Either that or he used a beefier crank for the .75 and a beefier one yet for the .90. Literature about these engines isn't very common. I'll do a little digging to find out. I wouldn't mind seeing my .90 smooth out a bit.
06-14-2014, 08:09 PM
#24
I just took a look at the RCU engine comparison / rating guide and to my surprise all 3 engines [.60 .75 & .90] have their own unique stroke. It looks like ST wanted to keep the bore and stroke proportional. I still think that if the 3 different versions share the same .60 sized case, there is only so much room for a counter weight.
These engines are low enough in price to keep me from getting sweaty palms while doing a DIY balance job.
Removing material from inside the piston is a pretty safe operation, the key is to duct tape it for protection and to use a fine tooth carbide cutter.
These engines are low enough in price to keep me from getting sweaty palms while doing a DIY balance job.
Removing material from inside the piston is a pretty safe operation, the key is to duct tape it for protection and to use a fine tooth carbide cutter.
06-15-2014, 04:17 AM
#25
I have an S90K engine which isn't made anymore. It shares the same liner and cylinder head as the Italian G90 but that's it. The pistons, rods, cranks, and crankcases are different. I won't do any cutting on this one unless I can find a spare. I see spares on eBay from time to time but only when I'm broke and have no hobby funds... LoL.