Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police
06-26-2014, 03:43 PM
#26
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Why not just pack up and move along? Address the issue with Parks and Rec. and the city counsel. All this does is portray our hobby in a poor light. Confronting the cops never works in any situation. Were the minority here. The only way to make progress here is to win the people over.
Mike
Mike
06-26-2014, 04:29 PM
#27
With the ever growing police state he is lucky the "costumes" did not taser him , subdue and handcuff him , or worse shoot him claiming he was threatening them with a deadly weapon(the quad). Good for him for calmly standing his ground and not being a "sheeple". The police are not "to serve and protect" anymore. At one time , yes they were, now most are out to throw their weight around ,overstep their boundaries, just to make a buck for their town, county, state.
Yes some folks are acting like idiots with the quads and FPV and not doing us any favors and they should be held accountable using laws already on the books. It's always the "feel good" politics to create a new law to combat an issue that can be controlled using existing rules and laws. Hope the AMA keeps up the fight and does not fold under any political pressure .
Yes some folks are acting like idiots with the quads and FPV and not doing us any favors and they should be held accountable using laws already on the books. It's always the "feel good" politics to create a new law to combat an issue that can be controlled using existing rules and laws. Hope the AMA keeps up the fight and does not fold under any political pressure .
06-26-2014, 11:42 PM
#29
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Good man.
We suffer from way too much "obedience".
Obedient people tend to be the biggest criminals ... "I was only following orders."
We suffer from way too much "obedience".
Obedient people tend to be the biggest criminals ... "I was only following orders."
Last edited by bogbeagle; 06-27-2014 at 12:25 AM.
06-27-2014, 03:38 AM
#30
I encountered this where I live. I was trying to fly a glow powered airplane at a very big park near me and was shut down in the same manner by two park police officers. I finally made my way to the state parks department and I was quite surprised to see that there is a clause on the books that says any rc aircraft flight or model rocketry by permit only in NY State parks. In my case I stopped right there. Try and get a permit from any government agency that does not want you there. I assume due to noise because someone probably complained.
Courtesy of Aero-News.net:
Quadcopter Flyer Threatened With Confiscation Of His Aircraft
Kensington Metro Park Police In Michigan Try To Thwart Flight
A quadcopter pilot who wanted to take some video of his friend riding a bicycle in Kensington Metropark west of Detroit, MI, found himself face to face with law enforcement officers ... and held his ground.
The quadcopter pilot was Jonathan Hair. He was getting set to fly his model aircraft when he was approached by two officers who told him it was not allowed. The officers said the park would be liable if someone were injured by the aircraft.
The problem (for the officers) was that neither of them or a supervisor who came later could cite any specific regulation or rule that prohibited the activity.
According to the blog*Photography Is Not A Crime, they tried ... telling Hair that his RC aircraft could be confiscated, asking for ID, asking where he had parked his car, they even asked if he had paid to get into the park ... but through the entire encounter, Hair remained calm and polite, and refused to be intimidated.
One officer even told Hair "you can't control that all the time" referring to the aircraft. "You can't tell me that you do."
At one point the supervisor told Hair that the leash laws written for dogs applied to remote-controlled aircraft.
Still, the bottom line was he was not allowed to fly the aircraft in the park. While that was not a clearly-established rule, the supervising officer assured Hair that it would be very soon.
Hair let the video camera run during the entire encounter, and posted it on YouTube. Judge for yourself.
"Drone" VS Metropark Police!: http://youtu.be/S_AWp4tQyNk
Quadcopter Flyer Threatened With Confiscation Of His Aircraft
Kensington Metro Park Police In Michigan Try To Thwart Flight
A quadcopter pilot who wanted to take some video of his friend riding a bicycle in Kensington Metropark west of Detroit, MI, found himself face to face with law enforcement officers ... and held his ground.
The quadcopter pilot was Jonathan Hair. He was getting set to fly his model aircraft when he was approached by two officers who told him it was not allowed. The officers said the park would be liable if someone were injured by the aircraft.
The problem (for the officers) was that neither of them or a supervisor who came later could cite any specific regulation or rule that prohibited the activity.
According to the blog*Photography Is Not A Crime, they tried ... telling Hair that his RC aircraft could be confiscated, asking for ID, asking where he had parked his car, they even asked if he had paid to get into the park ... but through the entire encounter, Hair remained calm and polite, and refused to be intimidated.
One officer even told Hair "you can't control that all the time" referring to the aircraft. "You can't tell me that you do."
At one point the supervisor told Hair that the leash laws written for dogs applied to remote-controlled aircraft.
Still, the bottom line was he was not allowed to fly the aircraft in the park. While that was not a clearly-established rule, the supervising officer assured Hair that it would be very soon.
Hair let the video camera run during the entire encounter, and posted it on YouTube. Judge for yourself.
"Drone" VS Metropark Police!: http://youtu.be/S_AWp4tQyNk
06-27-2014, 04:01 AM
#31
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No flying allowed at Kensington Metro Park. And yet at the south end of the lake the Mid West Float Fly is held every year. Guess that's the difference between the Michigan State parks and the Huron Clinton Metro Parks.
This is definitely a case of park rangers making up rules on the fly so to speak. They claim it is a public safety issue, so are the poisonous snakes in that park. Maybe they should ban walking and hiking there. Kids run in the parking lots, and get hit by cars, which of those two should they eliminate?
Where will it all end, personal responsibility and freedom are being taken away a little piece at a time, and quite a few of you "rebels" don't seem to mind one bit.
More drone news to come later today from Michigan, "Jobbie
Nooner" celebration to be filmed from above.
This is definitely a case of park rangers making up rules on the fly so to speak. They claim it is a public safety issue, so are the poisonous snakes in that park. Maybe they should ban walking and hiking there. Kids run in the parking lots, and get hit by cars, which of those two should they eliminate?
Where will it all end, personal responsibility and freedom are being taken away a little piece at a time, and quite a few of you "rebels" don't seem to mind one bit.
More drone news to come later today from Michigan, "Jobbie
Nooner" celebration to be filmed from above.
Last edited by smeckert; 06-27-2014 at 04:07 AM.
06-27-2014, 04:19 AM
#32
With the ever growing police state he is lucky the "costumes" did not taser him , subdue and handcuff him , or worse shoot him claiming he was threatening them with a deadly weapon(the quad). Good for him for calmly standing his ground and not being a "sheeple". The police are not "to serve and protect" anymore. At one time , yes they were, now most are out to throw their weight around ,overstep their boundaries, just to make a buck for their town, county, state.
Yes some folks are acting like idiots with the quads and FPV and not doing us any favors and they should be held accountable using laws already on the books. It's always the "feel good" politics to create a new law to combat an issue that can be controlled using existing rules and laws. Hope the AMA keeps up the fight and does not fold under any political pressure .
Yes some folks are acting like idiots with the quads and FPV and not doing us any favors and they should be held accountable using laws already on the books. It's always the "feel good" politics to create a new law to combat an issue that can be controlled using existing rules and laws. Hope the AMA keeps up the fight and does not fold under any political pressure .
06-27-2014, 04:37 AM
#34
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Your not a majority anywhere. YOU may think you are but trust me your not. What the quad community forgets is they are a VERY small bunch who by the actions of some are being judged by the majority as a problem, True or not those are the cold hard facts. Good luck but your on the losing end on this.
Mike.
Mike.
The AMA website lists 150,000 members.
There are 780,000 police in the USA.
When it comes to the private citizen with no vested interest in RC, I imagine the majority would side with the Police in not wanting quads buzzing around in public parks.
I'd say quad/multirotor pilots are outnumbered at least 100 to 1.
This video shows someone standing up to the police.. Was it a strategic move in the big picture? I doubt it.
What did he really achieve? He didn't get to fly his quad anyway and posting the vid is just one more catalyst towards restrictive legislation.
Last edited by Rob2160; 06-27-2014 at 04:43 AM.
06-27-2014, 04:43 AM
#35
The AMA website lists 150,000 members.
There are 780,000 police in the USA.
When it comes to the private citizen with no vested interest in RC, I imagine the majority would side with the Police in not wanting quads buzzing around in public parks.
I'd say quad pilots are outnumbered at least 100 to 1.
This video shows someone standing up to the police.. Was it a strategic move in the big picture? I doubt it.
What did he really achieve? He didn't get to fly his quad anyway and posting the vid is just one more catalyst towards restrictive legislation.
There are 780,000 police in the USA.
When it comes to the private citizen with no vested interest in RC, I imagine the majority would side with the Police in not wanting quads buzzing around in public parks.
I'd say quad pilots are outnumbered at least 100 to 1.
This video shows someone standing up to the police.. Was it a strategic move in the big picture? I doubt it.
What did he really achieve? He didn't get to fly his quad anyway and posting the vid is just one more catalyst towards restrictive legislation.
06-27-2014, 04:51 AM
#36
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The AMA website lists 150,000 members.
There are 780,000 police in the USA.
When it comes to the private citizen with no vested interest in RC, I imagine the majority would side with the Police in not wanting quads buzzing around in public parks.
I'd say quad/multirotor pilots are outnumbered at least 100 to 1.
This video shows someone standing up to the police.. Was it a strategic move in the big picture? I doubt it.
What did he really achieve? He didn't get to fly his quad anyway and posting the vid is just one more catalyst towards restrictive legislation.
There are 780,000 police in the USA.
When it comes to the private citizen with no vested interest in RC, I imagine the majority would side with the Police in not wanting quads buzzing around in public parks.
I'd say quad/multirotor pilots are outnumbered at least 100 to 1.
This video shows someone standing up to the police.. Was it a strategic move in the big picture? I doubt it.
What did he really achieve? He didn't get to fly his quad anyway and posting the vid is just one more catalyst towards restrictive legislation.
Mike
06-27-2014, 05:02 AM
#38
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Here's my point with the above comment that cops are responsible to stop dangerous behavior even if it's not illegal. I have a 5 year old that I take to playgrounds frequently. So let's say some teenagers show up with skateboards and are doing stunts on the playground equipment. And lets say, like most cities, that there is no law against that. But if a police officer is present and sees that there are children playing and the skateboarders are close enough to them that a botched stunt could cause a child to be injured, the policeman's duty is to tell the kids to stop. It's nothing against skateboarders or their rights to use public property, rather it's about the safety of everyone involved. If the cop perceived the drone pilot as posing a threat to the safety of others, right or wrong, it's his duty to speak up and stop the unsafe activity.
Everyone has a duty of care when using anything in a public place - whether it be a bike, roller blades, quad copter, pram, walking stick - anything. General rule of thumb would be - don't be a dick. It would be a different story if this guy was caught flying low over peoples heads, recording sun bathers or any other dickish things but he wasn't. If they had observed the guy - seen he wasn't being a dick and just gave him a polite warning to make sure he keeps an eye on the wind speeds and tries to stay away from others then there wouldn't be an issue.
06-27-2014, 05:07 AM
#39
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Way to go Liberials the Police state is on us. Way way too many laws and buricrates to enforce them the ever growing government is choking us all. Thank god I'll be dead before this all goes to helll in a hand basket.We need more people to stand up for whats right. We can't even elect our president the Media and the electoral collage does it for us. Way to go Quad guy
06-27-2014, 05:17 AM
#40
At least then, everyone knows where they stand.
I commend him for standing up to the cops. There's too many that think they can do what they want just because they have a badge. Australia is no different in that respect either.
But I do agree RC aircraft shouldn't be flown in public parks etc. That's what RC clubs and specific areas for flying RC are for.
06-27-2014, 05:26 AM
#41
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I'm with RCMIKET, you don't disobey police officers, if they ask you to stop, just stop and move on. Once you stand your ground against the police you're taking on a whole new ideal, and you usually come out as the loser.
06-27-2014, 05:45 AM
#44
The pilot in the video did not disobey police officers. He engaged them (attempted to engage them) in an open dialog to question why he was being targeted. He asked to see a written ordinance that they were referencing and they could not produce it. If you are going to just roll over and do whatever the police command without question then please trot over and join the flock. What this individual did was the correct way to stand up for your rights. He didn't act up and get himself arrested to prove a point ,he calmly and professionally tried to point out that they can't enforce laws that don't exist or simply make up laws as they go because they have a badge.
06-27-2014, 06:02 AM
#45
Senior Member
My $0.02
For those of you not familiar with the territory, this park is huge. I’ve been visiting for 30 years and still haven’t viewed all of it. This park is a gold mine for any outdoorsman. If you can think of an outdoor activity, chances are it’s available at this park. The land mass is equivalent to a square box, 7 miles long x 7 miles wide. There are 4,500 accessible acres, not including all of the bodies of water.
I don’t fly at this park. I never have. I’ve considered the potential damages to life and property while flying and it simply isn’t worth the risk to burden myself or my family. Personally, I don’t want aircraft flying over me or my children while enjoying the bike trails, walking in the parking lots, playing at the beaches, BBQ’s, sitting at the picnic tables, etc.
Currently, there isn’t a no fly rule for this park. It is not indicated at the entrances, within the park, on the park websites or in any literature I’ve have ever viewed. I don’t think a modeler should be told his equipment will be confiscated without breaching any laws.
Perhaps a simple rule such as: “No Flying Within Pedestrian or Vehicular Traffic Areas” can be tolerated by all parties involved. Maybe a substantially sized, dedicated flying area would be beneficial.
I believe this park is too large to exclude modelers.
Clear Skies to All
-PD
For those of you not familiar with the territory, this park is huge. I’ve been visiting for 30 years and still haven’t viewed all of it. This park is a gold mine for any outdoorsman. If you can think of an outdoor activity, chances are it’s available at this park. The land mass is equivalent to a square box, 7 miles long x 7 miles wide. There are 4,500 accessible acres, not including all of the bodies of water.
I don’t fly at this park. I never have. I’ve considered the potential damages to life and property while flying and it simply isn’t worth the risk to burden myself or my family. Personally, I don’t want aircraft flying over me or my children while enjoying the bike trails, walking in the parking lots, playing at the beaches, BBQ’s, sitting at the picnic tables, etc.
Currently, there isn’t a no fly rule for this park. It is not indicated at the entrances, within the park, on the park websites or in any literature I’ve have ever viewed. I don’t think a modeler should be told his equipment will be confiscated without breaching any laws.
Perhaps a simple rule such as: “No Flying Within Pedestrian or Vehicular Traffic Areas” can be tolerated by all parties involved. Maybe a substantially sized, dedicated flying area would be beneficial.
I believe this park is too large to exclude modelers.
Clear Skies to All
-PD
06-27-2014, 06:22 AM
#46
Senior Member
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Here's my point with the above comment that cops are responsible to stop dangerous behavior even if it's not illegal. I have a 5 year old that I take to playgrounds frequently. So let's say some teenagers show up with skateboards and are doing stunts on the playground equipment. And lets say, like most cities, that there is no law against that. But if a police officer is present and sees that there are children playing and the skateboarders are close enough to them that a botched stunt could cause a child to be injured, the policeman's duty is to tell the kids to stop. It's nothing against skateboarders or their rights to use public property, rather it's about the safety of everyone involved. If the cop perceived the drone pilot as posing a threat to the safety of others, right or wrong, it's his duty to speak up and stop the unsafe activity.
06-27-2014, 06:37 AM
#47
Ask your cousin how the Michigan recording law applies when the party specifically does not consent to having their voice recorded and requests the recording be stopped. At 0:36 in the video they asked him to stop recording. I am genuinely curious.
*Continuing to record their voice after this request would be an offence in Australia and most parts of the USA. He could have been arrested for this act alone. As Init said, you can record video, but not voice without consent or a warrant. I don't agree with it, but that is the law.
*EDIT: after more research it seems in the USA you can voice record a police officer without his consent.
*Continuing to record their voice after this request would be an offence in Australia and most parts of the USA. He could have been arrested for this act alone. As Init said, you can record video, but not voice without consent or a warrant. I don't agree with it, but that is the law.
*EDIT: after more research it seems in the USA you can voice record a police officer without his consent.
Thank You Rob for trying to bring a bit of sense to this thread . The bottom line here to me is , the place to fight a perceived legal injustice is NOT at the wrong end of the barrel of the law's gun , but to , if it means that much to someone , become involved with the legal process FIRST before unleashing the keyboard warriors to go to war . Far too many armchair quarterbacks will yell "FIGHT" from the sidelines but how many would put their OWN butt in front of the gun ? Give the system in place a chance , find of if there actually IS a restriction placed on your use of this public land and if so challenge it the right way by getting enough folks to vote with ya that your activity should be allowed . Maybe THEN , after all legal avenues have been exhausted , if ya STILL feel like ya got screwed , then go beat the war drums and see if any of the keyboard commandos show up . Anyway , it's good to see that there are at least a few level headed folks trying to inject logic into this machofest ...
06-27-2014, 07:19 AM
#48
I am glad he stood up calmly to them. If he would have been a jerk, it would be one more black eye for us. I am not sure how many of you know that AMA and the FAA are battling now about RC. The FAA was not supposed to be able to rule on RC, and just enacted a law that says they can. Then they even went on to say that contests are illegal because it is a commercial use of aircraft. If we are not careful, we are going to become outlaws when they make it illegal to fly them. Don't know about you, but I have over 100 planes and I am not going to quit flying them. They will last longer than I will live. We keep giving up rights. Its time to stop and stand up to the idiots that don't understand them. We need to educate them.
The thing with AMA that people keep arguing is simple. The guys that belong to AMA and fly thinking about safety enhance the hobby. The renegades who don't give a damn and fly where ever they want, buzz highways and interstates, and use the things for the wrong reasons kill the hobby. If you see someone doing something with RC planes that they shouldn't be doing, point it out to them, make them understand that the hobby is in jeopardy and they are being part of the cause
The thing with AMA that people keep arguing is simple. The guys that belong to AMA and fly thinking about safety enhance the hobby. The renegades who don't give a damn and fly where ever they want, buzz highways and interstates, and use the things for the wrong reasons kill the hobby. If you see someone doing something with RC planes that they shouldn't be doing, point it out to them, make them understand that the hobby is in jeopardy and they are being part of the cause
06-27-2014, 10:01 AM
#50
My Feedback: (24)
Yep, and just how far will they go as far as what is considered a drone?
While I think the video you can get with these things is pretty impressive, I think a few people are forgetting to use common sense, and not fly in a way that can hurt someone.
Always need to be mindful where the copter will go, or who it might hurt if you loose control. Don't care how good a pilot you think you are, or how advanced you equipment is, things happen. The increased exposure and reports of crashes and people getting hurt is guaranteed to force new regs and laws.
For all of us who enjoy this hobby, use some common sense!
While I think the video you can get with these things is pretty impressive, I think a few people are forgetting to use common sense, and not fly in a way that can hurt someone.
Always need to be mindful where the copter will go, or who it might hurt if you loose control. Don't care how good a pilot you think you are, or how advanced you equipment is, things happen. The increased exposure and reports of crashes and people getting hurt is guaranteed to force new regs and laws.
For all of us who enjoy this hobby, use some common sense!