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Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police

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Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police

Old 06-28-2014, 05:24 AM
  #76  
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What about UPS using quads for delivering packages ? Do they have common sense?
Old 06-28-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ludfleet
Good example of another liberal thinking he can do what he wants where and when he wants. There are several parks in my area (No RC flying allowed). That's the law, that's the way it is, you don't make an ass of your self. Liberals have the idea that we are losing are rights when they can't do whatever they want. What this boso was lacking is a good kick in the ass to change his mindset. People like him are destroying our hobby. Yes, flying the small quad copter in a park is a public safety issue, use your head it's common sense. the quad copter is a lot more dangerous than you are acknowledging. Several people have been killed or seriously injured by heli's and as far as the Quad have not heard, but the potential is there for one of those as well. Safety is the most important consideration and can't be looked lightly.
PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why everyone is so concerned with MY safety and the safety of those that may be harmed by MY actions?

THAT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY NOT YOURS!!!!!!! IF I CAUSE HARM, I AM LIABLE, NOT YOU!!! THERE ARE LAWS AND LAWYERS AND JUDGES THAT PASS JUDGEMENT ON TO THOSE THAT CAUSE HARM. IT IS THEIR JOB, NOT YOURS!!! KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT OF MY BUSINESS AND MIND YOUR OWN!!!!!

Now, is that really that hard to comprehend? : )

Astro
Old 06-28-2014, 05:38 AM
  #78  
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That's the problem with Americans. Passive like sheep and to many freaking layers !
Old 06-28-2014, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog
PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why everyone is so concerned with MY safety and the safety of those that may be harmed by MY actions?

THAT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY NOT YOURS!!!!!!! IF I CAUSE HARM, I AM LIABLE, NOT YOU!!! THERE ARE LAWS AND LAWYERS AND JUDGES THAT PASS JUDGEMENT ON TO THOSE THAT CAUSE HARM. IT IS THEIR JOB, NOT YOURS!!! KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT OF MY BUSINESS AND MIND YOUR OWN!!!!!

Now, is that really that hard to comprehend? : )

Astro
Of course people will be concerned about the actions of someone that puts the safety of others at risk. Just because you can be prosecuted and held accountable for your actions, that doesn't help the person that gets injured by your actions if it all goes wrong. Prevention is better than cure.

If the cops want to enforce the ban on RC flying in that park, maybe they should actually have a law to enforce.

By the way. You made it everyone's business as soon as you posted here.
Old 06-28-2014, 07:58 AM
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What seems to be missing in all of this is "common sense" on the part of the Quad operator. Even though there apparently was no restriction on flying RC aircraft in that park (although we don't know that for certain), common sense dictates parks can be busy places with varying numbers of people milling about. Any object (regardless of weight) falling from the sky can seriously injure a person. Anyone who has been in this hobby for more than an hour soon realizes (or should realize) the inherent danger in operating such a craft in a populated area. Only the "I don't care crowd" seem to feel it is the confrontation that is key to this encounter with law enforcement. Was the PD correct in the reasoning for the encounter? Probably not if that decision was based on what they though was a documented park use rule. If it was based solely on discretion with an eye toward public safety, then yes they were justified in the confrontation. Case in point! One year ago I was called by a friend who asked if it was legal to fly RC aircraft at the Water Park in their area. I responded that it is probably not illegal but certainly unwise and that I would investigate. Sure enough -- upon arrival I found two adults flying 40 size nitro planes from the parking lot at the water park. They were flying over houses on the other side of the street, there were kids riding bikes in the lot, and there were people in the water park. Not only that but they are within a mile of the local airport and on the glide path. After a lecture about AMA guidelines (and they had no idea who or what the AMA was), their obvious unconcern over safety, they grumbled and left. I later got a phone call from one gent who in no uncertain terms told me the FBO at the airport told him it was not "illegal" to fly where they were and that the police said there was no law regarding flying in city parks (note the city parks). It is reasonable to assume the FBO had no idea what the FAA/AMA guidelines were regarding RC aircraft. I'm betting that had an officer been on site there would have been a similar confrontation. How you feel about laws, ordinances and public officials is why we vote. Don't like how things are? Work to change it! And as have been shown, there are quad copter incidents that do bring bad light on this hobby. My personal feeling is RC aircraft of any type do not belong in public parks. But I respect the "privilege" of flying in parks provided AMA guidelines are followed. If a community prohibits park use for this activity then so be it. Living in the tundra, snowmobiling in the 60's and 70's used to fun until some folks began to disrespect private property and communities began restricting use of these machines -- all because a few cannot or refuse to act responsibly. So now there is a system of public trails. As for RC aircraft activities there is the AMA and many clubs that have safe places to fly and educate and instruct on safe operation. If you don't have a club in your area, form one. But I suspect "I want the government to give me a place" is the general feeling for those that feel they can fly anything, anywhere, anytime, and ignore the safety issue and the cops should have no say.
Old 06-28-2014, 08:37 AM
  #81  
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Interesting discussion, but it seems obvious that some either just don't get it, or don't care and just want to bang on the war drum. I have a bunch on big stuff that I only fly at the club field. That said, I also enjoy flying small stuff around the park/school field, but if there are people there I don't fly. If I'm there first, and someone shows up and wants to use the field, I stop. I simply refuse to fly over other

It's called being responsible.
Old 06-28-2014, 08:51 AM
  #82  
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Well said loopdeeloop, I tried to get my point across however I'm not much for writing. It's amazing how irresponsible some people have become. Thanks for your post
Old 06-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Who said it was a dangerous environment, people walking, kids, dogs? It seemed quiet.

I agree with using common sense. Mr. Hair seemed to be responsible, did he not? The police were making up laws/ordinances that didn't exist. They were the ones who should have left the scene and come back after educating themselves.
Old 06-28-2014, 11:52 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by astrohog
PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why everyone is so concerned with MY safety and the safety of those that may be harmed by MY actions?

THAT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY NOT YOURS!!!!!!! IF I CAUSE HARM, I AM LIABLE, NOT YOU!!! THERE ARE LAWS AND LAWYERS AND JUDGES THAT PASS JUDGEMENT ON TO THOSE THAT CAUSE HARM. IT IS THEIR JOB, NOT YOURS!!! KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT OF MY BUSINESS AND MIND YOUR OWN!!!!!

Now, is that really that hard to comprehend? : )

Astro
I would have that that in typing the first question you asked, it would have been glaringly obvious and evident of what the answer would be.

It's stunning to see someone basically say don't worry about me and what I do, because if my actions cause injury/damage/harm/death, the courts can always sort it out afterwards. Is that your premise?

There is no absolute right to do whatever we want, whenever we want. Flying an RC item in an unsafe manner can cause injury and damage to property. I've seen the argument made (typically by FPV/Quad folks) that we all have risks everyday, so that in turn means they can fly where they want and when they want. I don't see the logic in that, basically one is putting their wants and needs over the safety of others. This of course can mean any RC flying object, but quads etc have certainly been in the news more than ever. The stories typically don't shed the best light on the hobby/means of flying. Why is that? Why don't we see more stories about planes and helis? I'll take a stab at that. It's because the quads etc are all usually caught doing something they shouldn't be doing, so of course that is going to get more attention. What is doing what they shouldn't be doing? How about flying over a public beach, or over the heads of runners, or spectators at an event, or better yet outside the window of woman's apartment who was changing. How about flying (and later crashing) through highrises in NYC?

This isn't really about quads versus planes versus helis or belonging to a club or AMA...it's about common sense. And while it might not technically be "illegal" to fly in certain places, in certain ways (at this point), that doesn't mean that it's something that should be done.

The "don't worry about me, mind your own business" attitude, combined with the continued instances of UAV/Quads being caught doing things they should be ( one only has to see the explosion of videos on all RC sites and elsewhere to see this behavior), will only play into the hands of the overreaching bureaucrats who are busy deciding the possible future of this hobby. To say nothing of what towns and cities are going to do with this. It will take a few instances (sort of like the one here where someone "stood up" to a cop), for local politicians to jump on the "ban" wagon.
Old 06-28-2014, 12:11 PM
  #85  
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Someone just mentioned "What about UPS using quads for deliveries -- do they have common sense? First, UPS, Amazon and others are not delivering by Quad at this time and they have lots of hoops to jump through before they will be allowed to do so. Next, they will not have someone following a Quad to deliver the package as that makes no economic sense whatsoever. It will be done as a "drone" using GPS guidance. Yes -- there is a difference and that is another public misconception that all RC aircraft are drones. So anytime an uneducated public sees an RC airplane wherever it is, they will likely think they are being monitored. Blame the news media for attempting to report news -- only to screw up the facts.
Old 06-28-2014, 01:38 PM
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I think Eddie could have picked up and fought the battle later at a common council meeting or some forum publicly.fortnuatey the conversation remained calm and civil.my issue with these toys is that in a public space there is a potential for injury of innocent bystanders trying to exercise their right to enjoy the park.regardless of whether or not it's a quad copter or a help or park flyer with others in the same space remotely or not a potential for personal injury exists.confrontations like this will eventually make city leaders change or a mend public policy.cbs did a piece on drones or what they infer as drones.while corrected Morey Schaffer showing his ignorance still chose to refer to quads as drones.i am afraid you are going to see more backlash than acceptance.personally I wouldn't like any aircraft flying or hovering around me if I was enjoying a picnic or family outing .every space has its limits .to say pilots of drones quads or whatever are a majority is stupid. Don't make this incident more than it should be.there will plenty of debates .some will compromise and others will prohibit them.best to educate and show these are relatively safe.a prop rotating at thousands of ram s is a potential injury.think about public Safety first and your self second.
Old 06-28-2014, 02:28 PM
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Thank you.i could have said use common sense and know where you are .well said.
Old 06-28-2014, 02:37 PM
  #88  
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Not posting this to make any point but an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFvEiOP6Zm4 Reminds me of the Shea Stadium accident. I was only a teenager then but it was big news at our club.

Last edited by Rob2160; 06-28-2014 at 03:05 PM.
Old 06-28-2014, 02:46 PM
  #89  
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http://youtu.be/KR39DErszRE Now granted, it was hit out of the sky by the people throwing things at it, but why was it there in the first place, and why so low?

Regrettably these are the videos that get posted and picked up and the media eats it up.
Old 06-28-2014, 02:48 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by eddieC
Who said it was a dangerous environment, people walking, kids, dogs? It seemed quiet.

I agree with using common sense. Mr. Hair seemed to be responsible, did he not? The police were making up laws/ordinances that didn't exist. They were the ones who should have left the scene and come back after educating themselves.
And that's the crux right there, the police were being prejudiced. There was no law being broken and no real danger to the public, only the sight of the quad being set up.

In Australia if the police ask you to pack up and move on and you don't, you have broken a law (failing to obey a lawful instruction) irrespective of whether they have a lawful reason to ask you to move on or not so it'd be like trying to argue a bad call with the Referee over here.....
Old 06-28-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
http://youtu.be/KR39DErszRE Now granted, it was hit out of the sky by the people throwing things at it, but why was it there in the first place, and why so low?

Regrettably these are the videos that get posted and picked up and the media eats it up.
Yeah thats crazy.
Old 06-28-2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Why not just pack up and move along? Address the issue with Parks and Rec. and the city counsel. All this does is portray our hobby in a poor light. Confronting the cops never works in any situation. Were the minority here. The only way to make progress here is to win the people over.
Mike
Because the "pack up and move along" mentality is why we are $17 trillion in debt, have an out of control government, and are watching our liberty being eroded by a party that doesn't like TEA.

Last edited by Desertlakesflying; 06-28-2014 at 06:34 PM.
Old 06-28-2014, 06:32 PM
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duplicate sorry
Old 06-28-2014, 09:40 PM
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I am sure those officers have more important things they need to be worried about in Detroit!!! OMG
Old 06-29-2014, 03:44 AM
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This specific park is about 45 miles from Detroit. It has it's own police force as do all state metro parks. Detroit cops probably wouldn't even bother with this guy, their risk vs reward. Metro park cops are the fun police (sometimes), just like the cops on the water.
Old 06-29-2014, 03:56 AM
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Although I do agree with this guy and his rights, does the AMA cover us flying anything not at a specific AMA flying field? Who is responsible for any damages to person or property if this thing hits something or someone? I personally don't wanna be responsible for damages or medical bills because I hit something or someone because I was too lazy to drive to my club. That said, i would fly a small electric with in reason at a empty park, not a busy one with lots of traffic.
if common sense was common, it would just be called sense.
Old 06-29-2014, 04:12 AM
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It covers you if you have permission from the land owner, corporation, whoever. With parks you are talking about state, town or county agencies so people might not know what the legalities are until you have a mishap and need to file a claim. Here (NYS) you technically have to have a permit to fly RC in a state park. So if there are no complaints people fly. If there is a mishap and no permit, I think you might be in unsafe waters. This is basically why a lot of people will say keep it safe and fly at an AMA sanctioned field. Unless you are flying on your own property, you are subject to the landowners rules and governances. You can call AMA and ask them this yourself. I think they will tell you the same thing. Actually contact your homeowners as they are the ones that will cover any mishap. AMA is secondary to whatever insurance you carry on your home.

Originally Posted by airzona
Although I do agree with this guy and his rights, does the AMA cover us flying anything not at a specific AMA flying field? Who is responsible for any damages to person or property if this thing hits something or someone? I personally don't wanna be responsible for damages or medical bills because I hit something or someone because I was too lazy to drive to my club. That said, i would fly a small electric with in reason at a empty park, not a busy one with lots of traffic.
if common sense was common, it would just be called sense.

Last edited by CRX Turbines; 06-29-2014 at 04:15 AM.
Old 06-29-2014, 04:16 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by airzona
Although I do agree with this guy and his rights, does the AMA cover us flying anything not at a specific AMA flying field? Who is responsible for any damages to person or property if this thing hits something or someone? I personally don't wanna be responsible for damages or medical bills because I hit something or someone because I was too lazy to drive to my club. That said, i would fly a small electric with in reason at a empty park, not a busy one with lots of traffic.
if common sense was common, it would just be called sense.
Your AMA coverage does extend to you outside of field operations, subject to some limitations. Love the comment about common sense being common...
Old 06-29-2014, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
Why even bring up the AMA all the time, it's not required to operate models,

I flew for years legally at a city park flying field, on slopes, in the desert, never had or needed AMA until I start going to AMA events,
Many of us here are members and the AMA is deeply involved in working with the feds on regulations that will and do affect our hobby. I don't fly quads or drones or fly in parks( which by the way is against city ordinances here in El Paso) what I am concerned about is the blanket effect the irresponsible "drone" owner may have on our hobby.

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 06-29-2014 at 04:38 AM.
Old 06-29-2014, 04:26 AM
  #100  
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Another dumb a** thread. Why is this a win? Why give the cop a hard time? just ask him the questions and leave. find a better suited place or join a club and grow up. Wow since when is asking a police officer a question standing up to him? people forget police officers are not the win you want, your "stand up" should be with the media, FAA and irresponsible people, not some police officer who is just responding to a 911 call some person at the park called in on the dreaded "drone"

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