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Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police

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Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police

Old 06-29-2014, 04:30 AM
  #101  
flyinwalenda
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Originally Posted by airzona
Although I do agree with this guy and his rights, does the AMA cover us flying anything not at a specific AMA flying field? Who is responsible for any damages to person or property if this thing hits something or someone? I personally don't wanna be responsible for damages or medical bills because I hit something or someone because I was too lazy to drive to my club. That said, i would fly a small electric with in reason at a empty park, not a busy one with lots of traffic.
if common sense was common, it would just be called sense.
Thanks for agreeing with the guy standing up for his rights....that's what this is really about.
As mentioned the AMA will cover you at a park (backyard, parking lot, etc..)in the event of an accident but it will be secondary to your personal liability insurance(homeowners, etc) provided you were operating the craft in a safe manner per AMA guidelines .
If you don't have liability insurance or are an AMA member and are flying ,driving,floating,anything radio controlled you will be on the hook for all damages, lawsuits, etc...that occur if you cause an accident.
Old 06-29-2014, 04:46 AM
  #102  
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I had a mishap at one point.. tip stalled a plane and paid the consequences. No written permission to be flying where I was and there is a deductible on most insurance policies. This one cost me 520 bucks. My homeowners has a 500 deductible so if you are flying somewhere that is not AMA sanctioned or your own property, make sure you have permission in writing because when lawsuits and insurance claims start to happen people very quickly forget your name or telling you on the phone that you have their blessings to fly.

Originally Posted by flyinwalenda
Thanks for agreeing with the guy standing up for his rights....that's what this is really about.
As mentioned the AMA will cover you at a park (backyard, parking lot, etc..)in the event of an accident but it will be secondary to your personal liability insurance(homeowners, etc) provided you were operating the craft in a safe manner per AMA guidelines .
If you don't have liability insurance or are an AMA member and are flying ,driving,floating,anything radio controlled you will be on the hook for all damages, lawsuits, etc...that occur if you cause an accident.
Old 06-29-2014, 04:46 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by bjr_93tz
And that's the crux right there, the police were being prejudiced. There was no law being broken and no real danger to the public, only the sight of the quad being set up.

In Australia if the police ask you to pack up and move on and you don't, you have broken a law (failing to obey a lawful instruction) irrespective of whether they have a lawful reason to ask you to move on or not so it'd be like trying to argue a bad call with the Referee over here.....
Not exactly correct, they do have to have a lawful reason. Cops have to suspect that you may be going to disrupt the peace, behave in a way that may be dangerous to public safety or likely to cause injury or damage to property.

They can't just do whatever they want. And that's the problem because most of them do. Power tripping.
Old 06-29-2014, 05:36 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by ludfleet
Good example of another liberal thinking he can do what he wants where and when he wants....
Yeah! Darn Liberals always thinking they can do whatever they want! I mean, that's just totally crazy, like carrying a loaded AR-15 into a Chick fil-A restaurant around families with their kids :-(

Let's not make this political, both fringes are killing any chance of real debate...

Jack
Old 06-29-2014, 05:40 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by jfetter
Yeah! Darn Liberals always thinking they can do whatever they want! I mean, that's just totally crazy, like carrying a loaded AR-15 into a Chick fil-A restaurant around families with their kids :-(

Let's not make this political, both fringes are killing any chance of real debate...

Jack

+1
Mike
Old 06-29-2014, 06:32 AM
  #106  
flyinwalenda
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Originally Posted by jfetter
Yeah! Darn Liberals always thinking they can do whatever they want! I mean, that's just totally crazy, like carrying a loaded AR-15 into a Chick fil-A restaurant around families with their kids :-(

Let's not make this political, both fringes are killing any chance of real debate...

Jack

Too late ! It's already political . The liberal msm is taking care of that.
Ironic you mentioned guns as that is exactly how the msm is twisting the RC quad facts. Fear mongering. They sensationalized the gun issue by comparing a civilian semi-auto rifle to a military full-auto assault weapon and calling the civilian model an "assault weapon" and hoodwinking the entertainment TV watching public into believing that all weapons are bad and we need new laws to protect you. Now they show someone with a shotgun or handgun and they(msm and the public) call it an "assault weapon"
Now they are doing it with RC quad copters by referring to them as military "drones" ! Again, fear mongering. If they are not stopped they will convince the sheeple that ALL RC AIRCRAFT are dangerous and we need some new political "feel good legislation " in place to protect the public
This needs to be combated at the ground level just like this guy did in the video.
Oh, and I will proudly take my quad to a Chic-Fil-A and safely fly it in the parking lot !

Last edited by flyinwalenda; 06-29-2014 at 06:36 AM.
Old 06-29-2014, 08:55 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda
Oh, and I will proudly take my quad to a Chic-Fil-A and safely fly it in the parking lot !
Not if I owned the place you wouldn't.
Old 06-29-2014, 09:03 AM
  #108  
loopdeeloop
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Actually, all rc aircraft ARE dangerous. This is why preaching safety is so important for folks getting into this hobby and for those who feel whatever they do in this sport should be of no concern to anyone else. Anyone who has never been struck by a prop is about to. Anyone who has never crashed an aircraft is about to. Anyone that has never seen a LiPo fire needs to "read". Anyone that has never seen an engine chuck a prop on a starting stand has not been paying attention to the sounds around them. Anyone who has ever seen an aircraft in flight spit a prop off probably may not see that happen soon. I saw it happen just a couple weeks ago. The prop with spinner attached landed in a vacant area of the pits. I found it when mowing and we spent a long while looking for it after the incident -- and yes, the area in which we were looking as far from the actual landing spot. Accidental starting of electric airplanes resulted in my club changing its rules on arming them and working on them. I have remnants of an electric prop embedded in the case seam of my Futaba 7C transmitter that happened to be sitting on a table where a small foamy was being worked on by a relatively new member. The accidental start caused the model to hit my transmitter. Another piece of the prop missed my back by inches and penetrated the safety fence landing at the feet of six spectators who happened to be friends of mine, including my wife and daughter. The only injury, fortunately, was the foamy pilots pride. It's obvious in this thread that some folks simply have the feeling that just because it's not illegal, it's ok. Yeah, I know, the typical response is "that incident will never happen to me!" Then when it does, the response is "I never dreamed this could happen!"
Old 06-29-2014, 09:29 AM
  #109  
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Please leave politics, guns, tea party and terrorism out of this thread. It's about a quad pilot and the park police stating fictitious policy.

There's Fox News for all that other stuff.
Old 06-29-2014, 09:55 AM
  #110  
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deleted ... it isn't worth it.

Last edited by skylark-flier; 06-29-2014 at 10:12 AM.
Old 06-29-2014, 11:27 AM
  #111  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by afioretti
I had a mishap at one point.. tip stalled a plane and paid the consequences. No written permission to be flying where I was and there is a deductible on most insurance policies. This one cost me 520 bucks. My homeowners has a 500 deductible so if you are flying somewhere that is not AMA sanctioned or your own property, make sure you have permission in writing because when lawsuits and insurance claims start to happen people very quickly forget your name or telling you on the phone that you have their blessings to fly.
How did you get charged a deductible? Liability coverage (3rd party claims) don't normally come with deductibles, but first party coverages do (comp, collision etc).
Old 06-29-2014, 11:39 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by eddieC
Metropark Rules & Policies:

http://www.metroparks.com/Multimedia...egulations.pdf

Nothing even remotely (pun intended) related to RC of any kind. Now move along, citizen!
Rule numver 1 - do not disturb the birds, or anything else.
Rule number 5 - no off road motorized vehicles.

Before you guys insist that "public" means you can do anything you want you better get real acquainted with the laws. GET PERMISSION BEFORE YOU FLY.
Old 06-29-2014, 11:42 AM
  #113  
BobH
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FYI, RC flying is NOT considered very dangerous by the people who keep track of these sort of things. I worked for the CPSC for years and RC flying was way down the list on dangerous activities. Biking on the other hand was near the top.. As was skate boarding etc.
Just some real information, not speculation.
Old 06-29-2014, 11:48 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill
Rule numver 1 - do not disturb the birds, or anything else.
Rule number 5 - no off road motorized vehicles.

Before you guys insist that "public" means you can do anything you want you better get real acquainted with the laws. GET PERMISSION BEFORE YOU FLY.
This is actually a very good point and made me read the regulations again..

No person shall kill, trap, hunt,
pursue or in any manner disturb or cause to be disturbed any
wild bird or animal within the boundaries of any park, without
written permission of the Authority.

and

Entry into lands of the
Authority and enjoyment of parks and park facilities is a privilege
which is extended to members of the public only during
their continued compliance with these rules and regulations.

Last edited by Rob2160; 06-29-2014 at 12:12 PM.
Old 06-29-2014, 01:09 PM
  #115  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by BobH
FYI, RC flying is NOT considered very dangerous by the people who keep track of these sort of things. I worked for the CPSC for years and RC flying was way down the list on dangerous activities. Biking on the other hand was near the top.. As was skate boarding etc.
Just some real information, not speculation.
Because it is not at the top of a list doesn't mean an activity isn't dangerous. When you worked for SPSC were quads/fpv etc routinely flying yet? Although not exclusively quad related, you don't typically see large scale RC planes able to operate the way heli/multi rotor craft can.
Old 06-29-2014, 01:57 PM
  #116  
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I had 3rd degree burns many years back from working with high power rocket engines. Hind site is always 20/20 and we all figure it aint gonna happen to me. How many have had radio failures in flight? It is an eye opener. When you start to ask the question of what you will do WHEN this happens to me or where will I be WHEN this happens as opposed to asking what will I do IF it happens to me, it begins to change ones paradigm of thinking very quickly...

Originally Posted by loopdeeloop
Not if I owned the place you wouldn't.
Old 06-29-2014, 01:57 PM
  #117  
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Metro Park regulation 22

22. OTHER ACTIVITIES

Other activities not provided for specifically in these rules may
be subject to posted regulations by the Authority or included
in established general, firearms, and watercraft ordinances,
adopted by the local townships.


Interesting what you find when reading various Michigan Town Ordinances.

A few random samples….

Sec. 30-50. Model crafts.
No person shall operate powered, line attached model crafts or remote controlled crafts of any kind, including airplanes, boats and automobiles, on or over land or water owned, managed, controlled or operated by the township, except in areas set aside for such specific activities.
Sec. 86-61. Games and unusual activities.
No person shall take part in or abet the playing of any games involving thrown or otherwise propelled objects such as balls, arrows, javelins or model airplanes, except in areas specifically set apart for such forms of recreation.

It shall be unlawful for any person to start, fly, or use any fuel- or battery-powered model aircraft, boat, or other similarly powered model vehicle within a County park except in areas designated for such use by the Kent County Parks Department.

Last edited by Rob2160; 06-29-2014 at 02:00 PM.
Old 06-29-2014, 01:58 PM
  #118  
loopdeeloop
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Originally Posted by BobH
FYI, RC flying is NOT considered very dangerous by the people who keep track of these sort of things. I worked for the CPSC for years and RC flying was way down the list on dangerous activities. Biking on the other hand was near the top.. As was skate boarding etc.
Just some real information, not speculation.
Let's see -- biking accidents usually involve the rider and generally doesn't involve any other folks. Skateboarding accidents are due to stupidity like trying to ride a handrail and landing in a heap on the concrete below. Neither of these activities involves others and as long as it doesn't -- nobody cares what you do to yourself. Its the innocent bystanders that we are concerned about and what this thread is about. My comment about all rc aircraft being dangerous stands and is not speculation. Every instruction manual for every airplane I ever built, and every electric, nitro, and gas motor has ample warnings about the dangers of improper operation and potential damage to you and others. How dangerous they are depends on the level of capability and responsibility of the pilot. Any activity conducted responsibly is generally safe.
Old 06-29-2014, 03:01 PM
  #119  
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22. OTHER ACTIVITIES
Other activities not provided for specifically in these rules may
be subject to posted regulations by the Authority or included
in established general, firearms, and watercraft ordinances,
adopted by the local townships.


Interesting what you find when reading various Michigan Town Ordinances.
Really stretching there, Rob. An ordinance 100+ miles away (Kent county, Grand Rapids) has no bearing on Detroit metro parks.
Old 06-29-2014, 03:04 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by loopdeeloop
Let's see -- biking accidents usually involve the rider and generally doesn't involve any other folks. Skateboarding accidents are due to stupidity like trying to ride a handrail and landing in a heap on the concrete below. Neither of these activities involves others and as long as it doesn't -- nobody cares what you do to yourself. Its the innocent bystanders that we are concerned about and what this thread is about. My comment about all rc aircraft being dangerous stands and is not speculation. Every instruction manual for every airplane I ever built, and every electric, nitro, and gas motor has ample warnings about the dangers of improper operation and potential damage to you and others. How dangerous they are depends on the level of capability and responsibility of the pilot. Any activity conducted responsibly is generally safe.
Please list some RC accidents where injuries to others besides the pilot/operator occurred. I am sure they are few and far between,
Old 06-29-2014, 03:10 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by bjr_93tz
And that's the crux right there, the police were being prejudiced. There was no law being broken and no real danger to the public, only the sight of the quad being set up.

In Australia if the police ask you to pack up and move on and you don't, you have broken a law (failing to obey a lawful instruction) irrespective of whether they have a lawful reason to ask you to move on or not so it'd be like trying to argue a bad call with the Referee over here.....
Originally Posted by drac1
Not exactly correct, they do have to have a lawful reason. Cops have to suspect that you may be going to disrupt the peace, behave in a way that may be dangerous to public safety or likely to cause injury or damage to property.

They can't just do whatever they want. And that's the problem because most of them do. Power tripping.
Yes, they need to think they have a lawful reason. Was it George from "Seinfeld" that once told Jerry "It's not a lie if you believe it to be true" ergo it's a lawful reason if you believe it to be lawful.

However ignorance of the law is no excuse for the general public but can be for an officer??

I've never had any run-ins with the police other than the usual RBT and licence check and found them mostly to be professional and polite. The bunch from another town I lived in that were protecting the drug dealers that lived next door were a whole different kettle of fish.
Old 06-29-2014, 03:16 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by eddieC
Really stretching there, Rob. An ordinance 100+ miles away (Kent county, Grand Rapids) has no bearing on Detroit metro parks.
I agree the Kent County ordinance does not have a bearing on Kensington Park, which is why I said they were random samples.

There are several Metro parks and each will be subject to different town ordinances so I posted this as general information to help others understand the importance of checking your local ordinances.

I'd say there are Quad/multirotor pilots flying every day in public parks unaware they are actually breaching local town ordinances.

Watch a few youtube vids and you will agree that is true.

Remember, they got Capone on Tax evasion, so banning quads in metro parks due to them "disturbing the birds" is not really a big stretch and those rules do exist in Kensington park as listed in post #112 & 114.

Last edited by Rob2160; 06-29-2014 at 04:00 PM.
Old 06-29-2014, 03:20 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by eddieC
Really stretching there, Rob. An ordinance 100+ miles away (Kent county, Grand Rapids) has no bearing on Detroit metro parks.

Your really stretching by thinking they don't have the same rules aren't you? Most parks have a "catch all" rule in effect. With all the lawsuits now days I don't blame them.

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 06-29-2014 at 06:26 PM.
Old 06-29-2014, 05:08 PM
  #124  
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Every activity can be dangerous but some are much more dangerous. Maybe you can look up "hazardous activities" to get perspective of what's what. Serous injury or death get most attention, of course.
Old 06-29-2014, 05:45 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda
Please list some RC accidents where injuries to others besides the pilot/operator occurred. I am sure they are few and far between,
Here ya go!
Seems to me I just explained a near miss in one of my last posts. But since you need more, it took about two minutes to find these. You can find more on your own.
This one involved the pilot but again, could have involved others.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/ny...park.html?_r=0
Then there is this one:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/2771464/
Or this one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...del-plane.html
This one:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1954991
Involving AMA members:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=212198
Then there is this one which happened at Van Air in Brighton, Colorado which just
happens to be where my sister lived at the time. No injury here but it came very close
to downing the full scale airplane.
http://jalopnik.com/5617310/video-cr...ver-air-rights
Then how about the young lady in a Florida park who was struck by a helicopter, As I remember she lost a finger and had severe head lacerations. Couldn’t find that article but it happened a couple of years ago.

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