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Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police

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Quad Pilot Stands Up To Police

Old 06-29-2014, 06:57 PM
  #126  
BobH
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we had a guy at our field back in 1981 who was killed by a single plane in the air. He was struck in the side and died on the operating table.. was sad.. there was a trial etc. The widow settled out of court the day of the trail.
in the universe of accidents.. rc ones still produce very few serious ones.. I lived and worked in that universe for over 30 years..
Old 06-29-2014, 08:13 PM
  #127  
bogbeagle
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Presumably, the court hearing was a civil affair, to determine whether damages were applicable?
Old 06-29-2014, 08:36 PM
  #128  
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Yes, everyone involved with the plane.. engine, radio.. plane.. ama.. everyone.
Old 06-29-2014, 08:50 PM
  #129  
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As with anything that is new, the laws are not in place for the public that will control the operation of these DRONES. They are not operated the way a Radio Controlled Aircraft is and presents more chance of interaction with the general public. Every interaction that hits the news or public media (ie: Youtube) makes the probability that the laws will be put in place that will prevent the damage that the public believes may occur. The public is not interested in what the operator wants to do and they do not know how these Drones operate. All they know and want to know is how that Drone is going to effect their ability to carry on their life.
The most fatal mistake that these Drone operators are doing is showing that they are right without question in their ability to operate their Drone any way they want.
Soon we will see the laws that will take the rights of these people away in the interest of public safety and then the confrontations will be somewhat different.
AMA will not be there for these people because most of the Drone operators are not interested in an organization that seems to control their operation. The question the members of AMA have is, how is that going to effect the way we operate our planes. In effect we all may lose!

Last edited by rich6170; 06-29-2014 at 08:52 PM.
Old 06-29-2014, 09:18 PM
  #130  
bogbeagle
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Originally Posted by BobH
Yes, everyone involved with the plane.. engine, radio.. plane.. ama.. everyone.

OK, then there was no crime committed?
Old 06-29-2014, 09:52 PM
  #131  
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I decided to check my own local park regs where I sometimes fly a foamy and found this rule:

Sec. 133.16. Certain activities prohibited.
Paragraph J
(J)
To participate or engage in any activity on any public park area when that activity will create a danger to the public or may be considered a public nuisance.

This rule could be applied to just about anything including but not limited to walking backwards through the park. Because a. You can't see where you are going which could be dangerous to the public and b. it would be a nuisance by annoying those who had to watch.
Old 06-30-2014, 12:13 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by bjr_93tz
Yes, they need to think they have a lawful reason. Was it George from "Seinfeld" that once told Jerry "It's not a lie if you believe it to be true" ergo it's a lawful reason if you believe it to be lawful.

However ignorance of the law is no excuse for the general public but can be for an officer??
Yes this is true, One example is the Good Faith Doctrine that protects Police who make mistakes but were acting in good faith.

The U.S. Supreme Court has said that "Because many situations which confront officers in the course of executing their duties are more or less ambiguous, room must be allowed for some mistakes on their part. But the mistakes must be those of reasonable men, acting on facts leading sensibly to their conclusions of probability.

In addition to saving evidence from exclusion, the good faith doctrine can also be applied to shield law enforcement officers and their agencies from civil liability. If the law has not been clearly established in prohibiting certain actions, police are entitled to "qualified immunity" from suit, and need not be forced to stand trial.


Australia has similar protection for the Police.

Last edited by Rob2160; 06-30-2014 at 12:22 AM.
Old 06-30-2014, 12:34 AM
  #133  
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But, "the police are the public and the public are the police" ... 7th Peelian' principle.

So, any doctrine of "good faith" should apply equally to any other man.

If it doesn't, then you have two sets of rules ... one for you and one for "them". That is the path to oppression.
Old 06-30-2014, 02:21 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by bogbeagle
But, "the police are the public and the public are the police" ... 7th Peelian' principle.

So, any doctrine of "good faith" should apply equally to any other man.

If it doesn't, then you have two sets of rules ... one for you and one for "them". That is the path to oppression.
I agree there are two sets of rules but sometimes this is a good thing.

In many dangerous situations the Public are free to run away, however a Police Officer cannot as they have a duty of care and could be charged with neglect of duty.

Should this law apply equally to the public also?

Last edited by Rob2160; 06-30-2014 at 02:31 AM.
Old 06-30-2014, 03:31 AM
  #135  
bogbeagle
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Not sure that you are correct about this.

Several recent cases involving police who have refused to offer aid to people, because to do so would endanger their own lives.

Perfectly reasonable for them to do so, imo.

Police are not responsible for public safety. Their duty is to enforce the POLICE - Y of the Crown and their allegiance is to the monarchy.

If police were obliged to protect the public, then you would be able to sue them if, for instance, you were beaten in the street. The fact that you cannot do this, suggests to me that there is no contractual obligation for them to protect your person or property.
Old 06-30-2014, 03:40 PM
  #136  
eddieC
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As with anything that is new, the laws are not in place for the public that will control the operation of these DRONES.
Please read the thread. This was a quadcopter, not a Drone.
Old 06-30-2014, 09:20 PM
  #137  
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How many nitwits are going to not see the big picture. Flying is not a right it is a privilege You don't have a right to drive you have a privilege. You may be within your rights to fly anywhere. Get it through your head that showing bad behavior reflects on all flyers. These quads airplanes and drones, which is what a quad with a camera becomes, can be used to create havoc with the wrong person. Don't you think that the government knows the potential. We have to work with authorities to demonstrate common sense and good behavior. Defy authority and you make all of us look bad. Keep up the defiance attitude and you might be looking for a place to unload your toys because they are illegal to fly. Understand the potential situation you are placing yourself and fellow flyers in. We don't need a few nitwits destroying the hobby for the rest of us. Most flyers use common sense and practice safe flying situations. Don't screw it up for the rest of us. If you have not seen the overall big picture by now we are all in a lot of trouble.
Old 06-30-2014, 10:53 PM
  #138  
bogbeagle
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A privilege granted by whom?

And, from where does that "whom" gets its authority to place limits upon my behaviour?

You made these assertions; I expect that you can justify them.
Old 07-01-2014, 02:49 AM
  #139  
scale only 4 me
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Originally Posted by bogbeagle
A privilege granted by whom?

And, from where does that "whom" gets its authority to place limits upon my behaviour?

You made these assertions; I expect that you can justify them.
Society,
If you want to live without restrictions go out into the wilderness, otherwise follow some rules and common courtesies
Old 07-01-2014, 02:56 AM
  #140  
bogbeagle
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
Society,
If you want to live without restrictions go out into the wilderness, otherwise follow some rules and common courtesies




Define "society".
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Old 07-01-2014, 03:52 AM
  #141  
Rob2160
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
If you want to live without restrictions go out into the wilderness.
Or Russia, No restrictions on flying RC in parks there, I asked the pilot in this video on another forum and he said people fly Phantoms around the Kremlin and nobody stops them.

http://vimeo.com/98953451 Try that around the White House, Big Ben or the Sydney Opera House.

Last edited by Rob2160; 07-01-2014 at 04:17 AM.
Old 07-01-2014, 04:16 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by bogbeagle
A privilege granted by whom?

And, from where does that "whom" gets its authority to place limits upon my behaviour?

You made these assertions; I expect that you can justify them.
Your are free to do as you want just be prepared to deal with the consequences. In the case of irresponsible quad operation this effects the hobby as a whole now your possibly effecting my hobby and are endangering my right to enjoy what I do. I do not understand what's so hard to understand here. Flying RC is not a right and we can be regulated to death and even banned if were not careful. I really don't expect you to understand that though.



Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 07-01-2014 at 04:23 AM.
Old 07-01-2014, 05:39 AM
  #143  
cloudancer03
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Really what is the point .you have one stupid comment about the national debt.u have a video demonstrating what can happen when flying near people.just pick up move on.i certainly don't want to be in the same area .and call anything remote control a drone if it goes beyond line of site.i know in this case it didnt.but the flood of these vehicles flying will Nellie around certain air spaces and private or in this case public properties will really take front and center .I hope our hobby will not be dragged into this .
Old 07-01-2014, 05:44 AM
  #144  
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What is "public property" ?
Old 07-01-2014, 09:42 AM
  #145  
RCKen
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Ok guys, I've had to step in and remove a few posts because a few members got a bit out of hand. I understand that sometimes guys get worked up in a discussion like this when discussing an issue that gets heats and they start stamping their feet and puffing their chest trying to be the biggest kid on the playground, but that's not going to solve anything in the discussion here and I've removed those posts from the discussion. Let's just discuss the matter at hand without resorting to trying to prove has the highest testosterone level and instead let's just discuss the matter in a calm and civil manner.

Thanks

Ken
Old 07-01-2014, 10:23 AM
  #146  
flycatch
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Originally Posted by RCKen
Ok guys, I've had to step in and remove a few posts because a few members got a bit out of hand. I understand that sometimes guys get worked up in a discussion like this when discussing an issue that gets heats and they start stamping their feet and puffing their chest trying to be the biggest kid on the playground, but that's not going to solve anything in the discussion here and I've removed those posts from the discussion. Let's just discuss the matter at hand without resorting to trying to prove has the highest testosterone level and instead let's just discuss the matter in a calm and civil manner.

Thanks

Ken
Our hobby is full of bullies however they are in the minority. They appear on the most part to be both verbal and physical. I have been subjected to this behavior myself however this time the bully was the one asked to leave the field. This is also one of the biggest problems a club has and usually why they fail.
Old 07-01-2014, 10:45 AM
  #147  
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Many years ago (15 or so) my flying buddy and I were in a community park near his home, flying Sig Wonder models with .25FP engines. We were off to the far edge of the park, well away from anyone else. A park ranger drove up and parked behind us, then sat there with his engine running for about twenty minutes. Finally, he got out and walked over - and told us he'd been sitting there trying to find a regulation that prohibitted us from flying there. He was unsuccessful, and told us to have fun and stay safe. All in all, a pleasant experience.
Old 07-01-2014, 11:12 AM
  #148  
ravill
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I must applaud those that stand up for their rights.

There have always been rules and regulations in successful societies, they are a necessity.

The police, however, are the proverbial bath water with the baby.

Yes, reasonable people will come to reasonable conclusions.

Unfortunately, there are MANY unreasonable people.

I hate the police as much as the next guy, shoot maybe more. I truely believe they are bullies and chose their profession because they can be bullies.

They have a gun and a bunch of their bully friends at their beck and call who can't wait to come help beat you up.

Give them wide berth, and stay away from them.

Be a responsible citizen for yourself. Teach this to all those around you.

And never be afraid to exercise your rights.

Remember you don't have to consent to search and seizure. Unfortunately, a cop is not REQUIRED to tell you he is searching. You have to tell him that you don't consent to being searched.

And you can always respectfully decline to answer as you are exercising your 5th amendment right.

When the people are afraid of their government, that's called tyranny.

When the government is afraid of the people, that's called freedom.

Have fun, fly safe and use your brain.

Can the way you are flying be more dangerous than can reasonably be expected?
Old 07-01-2014, 11:24 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Stikum
Many years ago (15 or so) my flying buddy and I were in a community park near his home, flying Sig Wonder models with .25FP engines. We were off to the far edge of the park, well away from anyone else. A park ranger drove up and parked behind us, then sat there with his engine running for about twenty minutes. Finally, he got out and walked over - and told us he'd been sitting there trying to find a regulation that prohibitted us from flying there. He was unsuccessful, and told us to have fun and stay safe. All in all, a pleasant experience.
There you go. At least the ranger in your experience didn't try and make-up rules to fit the situation or bully you like the ranger/cop did in the video threatening the pilot citing regulations that don't exist or telling him they can do whatever they want "because we can" (or they think they can).

Last edited by flyinwalenda; 07-01-2014 at 04:37 PM.
Old 07-01-2014, 04:32 PM
  #150  
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What a joke... I wonder if they know people from all ove the world are laughing at them... Lol

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