Bolshoi

My Feedback: (2)

I wish that we're true but it just ISN'T. And if you live within an HOA you can hardly breath in your own yard. I live in an upscale neighborhood across the road from an executive airport, a lot of private jets, aerobatic planes etc. planes are taking off and landing all day and night; they're building 1000 new homes right under the flight path. Therefore on approach these aircraft fly near 400 ft and they're loud. Personally I love the sound of aircraft, it was one of the reasons I chose the location. Home owners have no say over what happens at any height over their homes. If you want to test your theory try flying anything RC below 400 ft over your house- cheers

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

I live close to a hospital and I have helicopters flying at less than 100ft over my house all the time. Unfortunately they changed the flight path a couple year after I moved in.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

porcia, if we apologize for something that we clearly don't believe has happened, isn't that admitting guilt even though it didn't happen? And none of the other neighbors in the park have complained about it for 20 years? And when you ask one of them if the planes bother them, most of them answer something to the tune of "what planes?" And just how in the hell is he even going to know we are sitting in the park in a truck? We're not going there with horns blaring and with big signs on the truck saying we are conducting an "anecdotal investigation" of something we don't believe is happening. Now, if we really wanted to be sneaky we would go sit on the property immediately adjoining the park to the east which the owner of our field also owns and is only a matter of about 50 feet beyond his house. Attempting to reason with someone who insists on being unreasonable gets you nowhere. And you are absolutely wrong about the owner bailing on us if the town comes down on him.

If we find that we are indeed flying over his house, albeit 200 feet or more above him, we will be men enough to rethink our position, and I assure you I will post it right here.

DISCUS54

My Feedback: (211)

Sorry to hear about that w0mbat, I have full scale helicopters flying low over my property as well. I can understand filing a complaint if your established before the flight pattern. In JollyPopper's case this guy moved into a noisy environment and expects it to change. When purchasing property the seller has to disclose any existing adverse conditions that may affect your "pleasure to enjoy" your property (i.e. noise from a race car track two miles away, ect.) Likewise the landowner purchases property and pays taxes so that he is legally within his right to "enjoy" his property as long as he is complying with local ordinances, ect. It is quite possible that the trailer park advises renters as part of the rental agreement that there are adverse conditions in the area. The daughter who signed the agreement may have some some sort of recourse to stop or modify the local flying group maybe not...the visiting father has little to no legal leverage and may even have the authorities come down on him if he becomes disorderly or a threat to the public. The authorities have weighed in and the flying continues, so apparently there is no threat to the trailer park.

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

Once again, where did you get that? It is certainly not the case in Colorado where sellers have to disclose issues with the product, the house. They have to disclose water leaks, whether repaired or not, water damage around the sink, if they had a roofiing company come out and inspect and saw significant damage to gutters, windows, and shingles, etc....But nowhere in the state disclosure form do sellers have to disclose that a loudmouth drunk lives next door with nonstop barking dogs, Mr. wannabe mechanice rev's his hotrods in the wee hours of the morning, or that there is a group of dorks who fly loud toy airplanes less than a mile away! The Buyer's discovery of such items would legally allow the buyer to cancel the contract and receive any earnest monies deposited. It these items were not discovered until after closing, the new homeowners (buyers) would have to sue in the civil courts. Piece of cake!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

An apology can be a very powerful tool to use in dispute resolution. Sometimes, it's the only thing people want to hear. It acknowledges their concern, and shows that you have "heard" them. The key is your delivery. It might be to late at this point, I don't know, we're only hearing your side of the story, and it's changed a little bit the more we hear. It sounds like he might have a legitimate complaint. There is nothing "albeit" either in 200 feet, your planes shouldn't be over someones house, end of story. From a complaint out of the blue, to 1000 feet, to seldom fly overs, to now 200 feet....I sense a pattern.

I"m sorry we flew over your house. We assure you it was an accident and won't happen again.

I'm sorry you feel as though we did something wrong. We've looked into the issue further and don't see that our planes are going over your house. Please fly at our field and you can see this first hand.

I'm sorry about this situation, I feel like we got off on the wrong foot. It looks like our landing approach does go over some homes, we'll change that to make sure it doesn't happen again.

You can make an apology without "admitting" you've done something wrong. Also as an FYI, you've already made comments in this thread confirming flying over his house (see seldom if ever). Memorialized, and completely discoverable. As for the land owner, I hope I am wrong, but I've seen many situations (some including family...blood relatives) that when push comes to shove, will flip. In this case if he derives income from this property, and the city/town/state start coming down on him, and his business is adversely affected, he'll be faced with some tough decisions. The other possibility is that nothing has been done wrong, and he'll never be brought into it, and the guy complaining will just go away.
'

CRX Turbines

This guy is not going to go away.. toolmaker has a schmo like this across from him. His story is funny if he chooses to tell it but it worked out quite well in his favor. Thing is you are not breaking the law and the cops are required to respond when they are called. I would get bright T shirts made up for all your flyers that say something blatantly obvious to this person. There is just nothing he can do. Just be absolutley careful that no one flies too close to his house or god forbid puts one in on his property.


Andy

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

So your solution to the problem is to taunt the guy?

Your assertion that he can "do nothing" has already been shown incorrect, he got local and federal authorities involved. He might not have received the response he wanted initially, but do you think taunting the guy is going to make him go away?

j41captn

My Feedback: (5)

JP, it sounds like you have a real problem on your hands and it sounds like this guy is not going to stop. Just reading your complaints and your actions it sounds like you have patience and you are doing the rational thing. Noting your flight paths and adjusting them to stay away from his trailer park is a good start. Recording and noting his actions helps with information to the authorities in case things get really out of hand. Other posts have good ideas about offering peace gifts or even getting him involved with flying rc again. This might work but keep your guard up. Also the authorities might also think this guy is a pain in the a... and they may feel for you but unfortunately or (fortunately) they have to answer all complaints. The things that you should be worrying about are your take-offs and landings and not disgruntled people. Flying rc airplanes is suppose to be a fun and a safe hobby and don't let anyone stop that, so keep doing what you're doing and good luck.

CRX Turbines

No I am kidding there porcia.. my point is that they are not breaking any rules... lets see where this goes. We had a lot of this here where I live as well. Went no where.. all smoke .. no bite whatsover. If you are on private land... good luck... I have never seen anyone win on this except where someone put a plane in on someone else's property. I used to fly with a guy that got approached by a nearby school because of potential concerns with kids. We stayed on his land at all times. the complaints mounted... police came.. the police left and last I heard he is still flying.

dingo9882

This is a double edged sword. You are on private property so he can whine as much as he wants. But, what is going to happen is this. I have seen it here in nanny State CT, the town will pass a town ordinance against RC of any kind. Or they will pass a sound ordinance like they have done up here in certain towns. At that point you cannot do a single thing. I fly I private property and sound is always your enemy. It is strictly enforced for reasons that you have stated jolly popper. It just takes one person and you are on thin water. I almost feel like if you didn't fly for a little while that he will calm down somewhat. I do not see that happening though because he just is against you guys being there as a whole. Good luck!! Tread carefully in the mean time because you are in his cross hairs. A complaint is also on the books.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

We are about five miles out of town, out of the city limits. The county sheriff is the law enforcement agency that answers complaints out there. There is no noise ordinance according to the deputies, and I don't see the county passing one, primarily because of the unmuffled equipment that runs non-stop around here and because the folks just simply are not that concerned about it. Jim's business, which is on the same property that we use, is hauling in and repairing over the road trucks, and the sound of his huge tow trucks as well as the sound of those big diesel engines running during his repair of them, is many times louder than our loudest engines. As far as residences are concerned, there a few houses on the north end of the field and the trailer court--that's it.

CRX Turbines

All of this remains to be seen. Each locale is unique. It also depends on the individuals involved. There was mention of a doctor. That speaks loudly that there is probably nothing going on. The one thing that ought to concern everyone is that that the FAA showed up. If the exchange went down the way it was presented then that says that the FAA is becoming involved in matters that otherwise went unoticed and/or maybe this loud mouth neighbor knows some people up top. The fact that the cops keep coming out and leaving says the guy acorss the way is probably annoying the law enforcement people.

Sport_Pilot

To say they own the NAS is meaningless. The National Airspace System simply is the whole collection of air control. There is no air control just over your property.

Sport_Pilot

All full scale aircraft must stay at least 500 feet from your property, or at least the inhabited structure, except helicopters which must follow helicopter routs when below that, unless landing such as at a hospital. Model airplanes are not full scale aircraft, but the owner does have ar rights and for model airplanes there is no 400 foot limit.

Here is a brief summary of air rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rig...and_air_rights

ma_mulcahy

This guy is simply a bitter old man whose life has not exactly gone the way he planned. He is trying to establish a sense of control in his life over the one thing he thinks he can influence. My vote is that you try to befriend him and at least get him out to hang with you. If you can show him you are just a bunch of friendly guys wanting to have fun and show him he is welcome at the field, he might just see the sound of the engines as an opportunity to share a coke with the guys. I think you have the opportunity to bring a ray of sunshine to his life.

Sport_Pilot

He may be a bitter old man but he is also right. BTW the AMA guidelines on flying sites says that the overfly area should not be over people or buildings. So if you crash into his trailer the AMA will not pay for the damages and your club could lose its charter.

DISCUS54

My Feedback: (211)

Disclosure laws vary State to State so Colorado may be different than others. If both property owners are in compliance with all ordinances than the renter's best recourse is through the trailer park's owner. The park owner is operating a commercial business and has an obligation to advise of a plethora of adverse conditions to renters (some disclosures are Federally mandated)....lead paint, smelly air from the pulp mill, and yes noisy low flying airplanes next door. The renter doesn't own the property, can leave, and probably collect some damages through the courts for moving if the owner hasn't followed proper protocol. Having said all that, the father is a guest not a renter in this matter. He doesn't have much legal room to effect anything...and instead of asking nicely he belligerently made demands. His best option, at this point, may be to lobby the local government to change the ordinances pertaining to flying model airplanes in proximity to occupied structures. It is interesting that he is the first person to have an "issue" with a situation that has been going on for 12 years. Perhaps there is much more to the story than we know about.

init4fun

There is so much "locker room Lawyer" crap being slung around this thread that I feel sad to see the Op's point being lost in all this . These flyers have done nothing wrong except for having the misfortune of running into a jerk like their new not so friendly neighbor .

Now , with that outta the way , I'd like to address this little gem that I quoted . I live about 36 miles away from Plymouth Rock . Yes , THAT Plymouth Rock , which is about as New England as your gonna get and yes we DO have 4 awesome seasons of which only one is cold ! And bitter ? Bitter is just the state of mind of those who haven't yet come to terms with the fact that winter is SUPPOSED to be COLD ! How else can ya run snowmobiles , snowboards , and skis without SNOW ? A world with no change of seasons to enjoy the best of each would be a far more bitter world than one where the occasional deep freeze keeps the bugs and bad drivers in check , that's for sure .

I count not having to mow the lawn all winter , , , among the benefits of having winter .

DISCUS54

My Feedback: (211)

Touched a nerve I see...sorry for that. Just a personal opinion...like yours.

init4fun

My post wasn't meant to sound like a complaint , more of a celebration of the winter's cold as a welcome respite from the summer's heat .

Can you believe we have already had TWO ninety degree days this September ? We truly do get all of the season's extremes , and I kinda enjoy that

dingo9882

Jolly you make a good point about the noise. The problem is that he really does not have the ability to stop trucks and other things from going onto the property. So in his mind that is probably OK by him. To him though, if he can make enough noise about your noise and his lack of safety due to the power lines, he can make a whole lot of noise. I know that these trucks can make a ton of noise, but to these people that is OK by them. We had a complaint at our club that stopped us from flying during the week to only on Sundays!! Did I mention that across from the persons house during the flying seasons is a river! With very LOud BOAT, and a train track behind her, with very loud trains. This guy went from sound....all the way to safety. And like many have said including you, the FAA is now involved.

electric fly

My Feedback: (97)

i live on a lake and fly my float planes all the time, no one says a thing except for, that's cool!

abelard

Now THAT's an eternal truth. Everybody thinks he's a lawyer -- and people who act on their free advice can be depended on not to do it TWICE...;-)

dingo9882

Jolly, what have the police said so far? Have they given you any advise to this point? You said that they told you to keep doing what you were doing. Give us an update to whats going on.