Telemaster Sales UK

If it's of any use Rich I bought a Super 60 some years ago fitted with a Magnum 52 FS. It performed faultlessly until I flew across the disc of the sun last year and I lost orientation and wrecked the model beyond economical repair. The engine was unaffected by this adventure.



The way I see it, we are all practical men and we are not running a fleet of diesel trucks here. Ask yourself this, "How many flights will any given engine have in a year?" 100? 150? Even at 150 ten-minute flights that's 25 hours in the air. At the end of that time if it requires new rings and bearings, these are readily available if you know where to look.

I have quite a collection of four-stroke engines, mostly Lasers and OS but I also have three Thunder Tiger four-strokes, a 54 and two 91s. Now this is not directly relevant to the information you are looking for Rich but my experience with the Thunder Tigers is as follows: the 54 continues to fly my WOT 4 winter hack or Rosse d'Hiver in French, and I have had to replace the bearings on both of my 91s. This was not particularly expensive or difficult.



When I lived in England, lots of my clubmates flew ASP four-strokes without a qualm.

P.S. If I'd been a bit more conscientious about adding after-run oil to those engines, they may not have run their bearings so quickly.

GallopingGhostler

Got to agree with Telemaster and Greybeard1. One has to be careful with Internet forums, even flying field talk. There's cultish brand name loyalties and disinformation out there. There are also a lot of so called experts out there.

Best places for engine info out there I've found is in some of the smaller forums like Brotherhood of the Ring and Cox Engines Forum. First is a control line forum, second although mainly about Coxes discuss other engines, has a lot of collectors and engine lovers posting. To a lesser extent is Stuka Stunt Works and Stunt Hanger. (I say lesser because although there are a lot of good people in those CL forums, there are also a few trolls.)

By posting a question in these forums will usually bring out those who have had success with the engine in question, and the tricks in making them run their best, what to avoid, etc.

Good luck.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

It seems to me the one brand engine lovers fail with other brands because they THINK they know everything and know more than the engine manufacturer. They disregard or just plain don't read the instructions that come with the new engine and try to break in every engine of every brand the exact same way and then blame the brand for their pinhead mistakes. I have Enya, OS Max, Super Tigre, Magnum and Saito engines and they all run great because I break them in to the letter of the manufacturer's instructions. You spend that kind of money on the engine why not invest the time to read the manual?!

acdii

When an engine costs half of another engine of the same type and displacement, you had better hope it performs better. Comparing a Saito to a Magnum is apples to oranges. For the price, a Magnum is a darn good engine, its like a DLE compared to a DA, the DLE being good, the DA being great.

I have a few Magnums sitting new in boxes, only because I don't have an airframe for them. One of them I did install in a plane and ran it, and the engine ran great, very easy to start, one back flip when cold and it was purring. It was in a Chipmunk, but I screwed up the cowling and didn't give it enough airflow so wound up dead sticking it on its second flight on a windy day and dumped it a 1/2 mile away. The dead stick wasn't the engines fault, it was mine because I didn't have proper cooling. I had a 52 in a T-34 that I gave to a friend and he flew that plane a lot until he had a brown out and lost it, but the engine survived and is going in another plane. I never had a problem with it nor did he, and it ran better than my OS 52 in my LT-40.

The key to longevity is proper break in. The Magnum engines manuals have clear concise break in instructions which I followed to the letter, right down to the type of fuel. I used Wildcat 2&4 15% for them, and never had an issue with any engine.

Currently all my engines in planes are Saito, because I found great deals on them, and Magnum only has the .52 and .91 engines, and all my planes are either larger or smaller than either of them, too large for a .52 or a .91 or too small for a .91 and too big for a .52.

I am considering reducing my Ziroli P-61 plans down to 1/10th scale so I can use the Magnum .91 on it.

Greybeard1

This is about what I thought. I've had a range of engines, not just K&B, most were either the brands that guys at the field told me were going to be nothing but problems, but it didn't turn out that way. I have some second thoughts about Chinese built engines, but having bought a few and looked them over pretty well, I can't see any reason they shouldn't do well enough for my purposes. I'm not a performance freak, I want it to pull the plane, not to pull it straight up out of sight. If it will, that's okay, but not a requirement.

The local club, I've gone out there a few times, but 99% foam electric now. Give them a ten knot wind, and nothing will be in the air. Wind is a fact of life here, something that can handle it makes sense to me. Looking at larger models because I might be able to see them once they're in the air, eyes aren't what they used to be. Stingray may seem an odd choice, but it's big and not a speed demon. Big by the standard of someone that flew mostly 40 size planes, that is. Started to get back into it a few years ago, then ended up in the hospital and doing nothing for a couple of years so the doc wasn't too unhappy with me. If he's unhappy now, hope he's got a crying towel.

The planes aren't the same, the engines aren't the same, the radios are different, square one again. I have three Hi-Tek four channel radios, 72 mhz, but afaik, still usable. NIB, probably needing new nicads, which isn't much of a problem.

Rich.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Rich, I can understand why you like K&B I have a friend still flying some of their old engines. I have both Chinese and Italian built Super Tigre engines and I can't tell any difference between them. I have a second hand 4 cycle Magnum .91 waiting for me to build the airplane. I have found most any brand can be used reliably if you just follow the manufacturer's instruction. Some people just get into too big a hurry. I have been guilty of trying to use one brand/mix of fuel for everything with varying success but that is on me and not the engines. I don't fly 3D and I'm not looking to run like a speed demon. I'm more in a scale with scale like flight capabilities. It doesn't stop me from using a more powerful engine for a reserve but all in all except at take off I don't fly at 100%. If I can get it in the ar and back down safely and still reuse the airplane I'm happy! I guess I'm more of a leisurely flier than someone looking to tear a hole in the sky.

Greybeard1

(big grin) any landing where you can fly the plane again is a good one.

One of the planes I have in mind is the RCM Basic Bipe, with a Fox .36 plain bearing engine pulling it. Oddly enough, that same engine spent most of it's life in Basic Bipe, so it can go to retirement there too. Which, I believe, it was you that located new needles for, and I thank you again.

K&B is the workhorse, not the racehorse.

Rich.

jwrich

My Feedback: (17)

I am also fond of the old K&B engines. In '81-'85. while in Germany we all flew K&B 40s & 61's. They were dependable and the price was right. In the winter, we used lighter fluid to help get them started. I built a Cunningham Lazy Ace Biplane with a 72" wing span and powered it with a K&B 61. Later when glow fuel got up to $18.00 a gallon, I got a C&H electric Ing. and converted it to gasoline. It was messy but it flew the airplane. I still have that engine. K&B engines were just not the same when they went to the sportser series.

Fair Winds & Happy Flyin'
Rich

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

If I helped you find a needle that's great but my memory is not the best and I honestly don't recall. It's not something I would retain, the results are what is important not me having any part in it. I can't count the number of times I have been on the receiving end its just something we as modellers do. Those old plain bearing engines were good in their day and still well worth owning and using. I have a small collection I have either used or have plans t use. Some like a NIB old .15FP will go on a Ace Simple Series Staggerwing a new old stock kit I picked up a few years ago. I also have a NIB .10 FP which I hav earmarked to recreate a project I built in 1974, a Ken Willard Sunday Fighter, if I can find another engine I may build two one German and one British flavor. This year I found a project I had loss a few years back a Dornier-Zepplin D1 which will be powered by an old NIB Enya .46 4C II I purchased to put in it. It amazing what you find when you clean out the garage and reorganize everything. Threw out a lot of clutter I had saved and never used found a lot of Balsa I bought and never used but I have started nibbling away at the stack! .

Telemaster Sales UK

May I join this K&B Appreciation Society? These are not common engines in Europe but I picked up a K&B 65 Sportster for next to nothing years ago and installed it in an Acrowot, a five foot span aerobatic model. It flew it perfectly and it's up in a box in the loft just waiting for a suitable project.

Picture of said model below. I broke it when I inadvertently reversed the car over it! .

acdii

You aren't supposed to break a plane by driving over it! They are meant to be crashed, not rolled over! Geez, you Brits!

Greybeard1

Nope. Not the same. The six I have were marine when I bought them, looked on K&B's site, saw the differences were the head and prop driver. Got the replacement parts and now instead of 4012, they're 4011. Still have my old 8011, which is the older .40 but with the smaller front bearing. Probably should buy a new sleeve, piston and ring for it, absolutely no compression at all. Those are the same, shouldn't have any problem and their site lists the parts yet. I looked at their 100, but the muffler being the mount, doesn't sound too convenient.
Rich

Greybeard1

[QUOTE=Telemaster Sales UK;12290564

Picture of said model below. I broke it when I inadvertently reversed the car over it! .

[/QUOTE]

Surrender your drivers license immediately!

Rich.

GallopingGhostler

There's a general misunderstanding of the K&B Sportster amongst US RC fliers. They don't tolerate low oil fuels like modern ABC/ABN fuels. Run on legacy fuels for the old iron piston steel sleeve engines with sufficient Castor they do fine. Some refer to them as the poor man's 4 stroke as they spin larger props with ease. Many were destroyed on on low oil fuels and lean runs.

But, nothing prevents one from giving me an engine they are unhappy with and getting something they have better luck with. I look at it as a way to save money and have two happy campers.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Give him a pass he probably just retired to France and was tanked up on cheap French Red Wines or had those French women on his mind that he has been chasing!

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Goes back to my argument you have to take into consideration the manufacturer's recommendations and what is in the manual or you screw up the engine. I like your attitude on accepting donations I have the same outlook. I have several projects in the attic I received much the same way just waiting to be finished and flown when I can get to them. I am putting a donated Thunder Tiger .46 PRO on my Fokker DR.1 project (also donated) the former owner had no use for the engine but he gave it high marks. He wouldn't even take postage for it. I had to replace the carburetor, the NV was stripped out of the Carb body, but now I have a great engine for next to nothing. I'm the happiest camper of all!

acdii

I feel the same way. I have a nice Saito 91 donation that I am looking to find a frame for. Thinking of the SIG Ultimate Bipe, though the Tower Bipe may be a better choice as it is a tad smaller and lighter.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

I've had only one K&B engine, a Scream'n 48, a fantastic engine, did almost 100mph in a World P-51.
I've had many Super Tiger 90 engines both G's and K's, love em. Oh, and don't forget the S.T. 3000, great engine.
No difference between OS and Thunder Tiger engines, both great engines.
YS-91, Saito 180 love them too.

Greybeard1

K&B at one time also made a 3.5 and a 6.5 for competition. Only saw one of them, a 6.5 and it took forever to break in. Then it was a real screamer. Did better with a 9X8 than with a 10X6 in the speed department.

My inner child was after my credit card again, had to slap him away, spend enough for this month. He can wait until after the end of the month.

Rich.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

Forgot to mention racing my K&B 7.5 outboard on a tunnel boat, banging sponsons going down the straightaway, great fun.
I also had a K&B 11 outboard but there was no class for it at the time.

J330

My Feedback: (3)

Mecoa.com still puts out K&B, and others, but I find it very strange for them to resell trade in engines that someone else no longer wanted for a $15 discount but I guess if sales are slow.....
http://mecoa.biz/shopdisplayproducts_md.asp?id=10
Reading the K&B remakes available, I thought for $109 the Twister seems respectable for power to weight ratio. http://www.mecoa.com/kb/61/6170.htm Anyone ever give one of those a run?

Greybeard1

Click on the pricing and availability. Out of stock. Has been every time I checked for the last couple of years. A phone call might save a lot of waiting.

Rich.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

MECOA is listing the Scream'n 48 #4800 in stock for $149.00 +tax and shipping.
A friend had 2 of these puppies on a World P-82, unreal.

J330

My Feedback: (3)

Can it keep up with this $118 engine? http://www.novarossidirect.com/R50F_p_3257.html

the pope

Maybe he was eyeing off his french clubmates ( they do look pretty after a few reds ) ! Anyway we must cut him some slack as the Renault's have the gearstick where the throttle should be and the park break on the roof . Cheers