old timers look here must be 50+ years only
04-17-2018, 06:09 AM
#5876
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
Posts: 2,132
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A Fortuitous Occurence.
You know how it is when you're looking for something and you find something even more useful? Well, I keep a lot of spare parts in two sets of document drawers which were designed for office use. I've placed a building board on top.
I can't remember what I was looking for but I found the wing rib of a Super 60. The Super 60 dates from 1959 and has probably taught more British aeromodellers how to fly R/C than any other model until the arrival of foam wing kits and ARTFs. Here's a picture of a couple of mine.
The wing has three 1/4" balsa spars, two of which are on top of each other, the other is a supplementary spar about three quarters of the way back. The trailing edge is made up of 1/16" sheet with balsa webbing between the top and the bottom sheet, grain vertical. The top of the wing is sheeted back as far as the mainspars and there is 1/16" webbing between the spars, again, grain vertical. Thinking about Donnyman's suggestion of building a lighter wing for the Coupe Des Barons competition, I tentatively offered the wing rib up to the Baron plan and they are pretty well the same length!
The Baron has five spars plus two 1/8" turbulators in each wing-half, and it has thirteen wing ribs in each wing-half. The Super 60 has nine ribs in each wing-half and only three spars. Furthermore, Super 60 wings are not famous for clapping their hands, so I'm considering building a Baron wing but using Super 60 wing ribs spaced out to 6.5 cms (2.5") between the ribs. The ribs on the Baron plan are at 4.5cms (1.75") between centres. That way I'll save weight both on the spars and the ribs. The Baron's fuselage and centre section are narrower but that's nothing that cannot be accomodated with a simple mathematical calculation.
Two questions for you highly knowledgeable gentlemen.
Finally it's been a glorious day here and bare chested, I've dug over the potato patch by hand. Mind you at my age I had to do it in three installments!
PS. Yes buy it Flyer! Enyas are always a sound investment!
You know how it is when you're looking for something and you find something even more useful? Well, I keep a lot of spare parts in two sets of document drawers which were designed for office use. I've placed a building board on top.
I can't remember what I was looking for but I found the wing rib of a Super 60. The Super 60 dates from 1959 and has probably taught more British aeromodellers how to fly R/C than any other model until the arrival of foam wing kits and ARTFs. Here's a picture of a couple of mine.
The wing has three 1/4" balsa spars, two of which are on top of each other, the other is a supplementary spar about three quarters of the way back. The trailing edge is made up of 1/16" sheet with balsa webbing between the top and the bottom sheet, grain vertical. The top of the wing is sheeted back as far as the mainspars and there is 1/16" webbing between the spars, again, grain vertical. Thinking about Donnyman's suggestion of building a lighter wing for the Coupe Des Barons competition, I tentatively offered the wing rib up to the Baron plan and they are pretty well the same length!
The Baron has five spars plus two 1/8" turbulators in each wing-half, and it has thirteen wing ribs in each wing-half. The Super 60 has nine ribs in each wing-half and only three spars. Furthermore, Super 60 wings are not famous for clapping their hands, so I'm considering building a Baron wing but using Super 60 wing ribs spaced out to 6.5 cms (2.5") between the ribs. The ribs on the Baron plan are at 4.5cms (1.75") between centres. That way I'll save weight both on the spars and the ribs. The Baron's fuselage and centre section are narrower but that's nothing that cannot be accomodated with a simple mathematical calculation.
Two questions for you highly knowledgeable gentlemen.
- Should I use full-depth plywood dihedral braces?
- The Super 60's wing rib is considerably taller than the Baron's rib, about 1 cm or 0.4" taller. Should I make up a set slimmer Super 60 wing ribs or leave things as they are?
Finally it's been a glorious day here and bare chested, I've dug over the potato patch by hand. Mind you at my age I had to do it in three installments!
PS. Yes buy it Flyer! Enyas are always a sound investment!
04-17-2018, 07:42 AM
#5878
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
Posts: 2,132
Received 146 Likes
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I helped a lad with his Enya 19 on Sunday.
He'd bought the model secondhand. The gaps at the hinges were too wide but we sealed them with medical tape! The wingtips had been glued on upside down but whoever built it had made an excellent job of the covering. The model certainly flew well enough.
My I'm getting thin on top!
He'd bought the model secondhand. The gaps at the hinges were too wide but we sealed them with medical tape! The wingtips had been glued on upside down but whoever built it had made an excellent job of the covering. The model certainly flew well enough.
My I'm getting thin on top!
04-17-2018, 05:22 PM
#5879
Trust me guys I do feel your pain when I read about all the havoc and horror stories that white fluffy stuff is causing. Really wish I could send you all some of our 86 deg F weather.
04-18-2018, 05:39 AM
#5880
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upstate NY although I often wonder why...
Posts: 465
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Just don't believe folks when they tell you our change of four seasons is nice, refreshing and something to look forward to...
Here is our seasons:
1. Winter is coming
2. Winter is here
3. Winter is almost over
4. July 4th
Here is our seasons:
1. Winter is coming
2. Winter is here
3. Winter is almost over
4. July 4th
04-18-2018, 11:03 AM
#5883
Except MN and WI are getting it, not IL. I have to drive through WI to get to/from work since I work in WI. I am just tired of the cold and snow and ready for some warmer, but not too warm, weather so I can go fly.
04-20-2018, 05:08 AM
#5888
Well my buddy who swapped engines with me talked me into haul off two more items. He can't stand to throw an airplane away it offends is finer sensibilities. One is an finished Pilot Stephen's Akor sans cowling. If I can find the cowling I might finish it. The build quality is quite good. The second item is somewhat amusing to look at. Its a kit from a Czech company called Flying Styro Kit and its a 1/15 scale Styrofoam Me-109. prepainted with a tiny motor a big 3 blade prop and the smallest 3 cell NiCad pack I have ever seen. Also included was a 4 cell battery holder to use s a charger. Even the landing gear wheels are Styrofoam. From what I gather this company was crushed by Asian cheap labor and better foam. I'm not sure if I should pitch it or post in classified ads. Being made of Styrofoam it is a rare bird but a kin to the Yugo when you think about it. I am surprised at the level of detail, they did a nice job in that area.
04-21-2018, 09:43 AM
#5893
Thread Starter
Hi Guys!
I am in a slight recovery mode, been taking care of honeydo's and have made some progress. The roof over my shop is now all metal, no more composition shingles for that part of the house. It was where I had the most roofing problems, now all history.
Got most of the gas power tools tuned up and have started cutting grass again. for the most part the weather has been mild but we are scheduled for rain this evening. Temps are bouncing around between the 50 and low 80's with winds gusting all over the place.
Telemaster.........Have you finalized how you will assemble your wing yet?
Flyer ...................................... I am surprised the FP and LA engines are popular I have found them to be rather low on the longevity poll not to mention their reduce power. none the less I am happy controline is seeing a resurgence, my bet is the FAA rules is the reason.
When I made the decision to stay here (TEXAS) I didn't realize how it would keep me away from that cold fluffy stuff that falls from the sky and that suits me just fine. it gets hot as hell here sometimes but we don't have to shovel it out of our way
I am in a slight recovery mode, been taking care of honeydo's and have made some progress. The roof over my shop is now all metal, no more composition shingles for that part of the house. It was where I had the most roofing problems, now all history.
Got most of the gas power tools tuned up and have started cutting grass again. for the most part the weather has been mild but we are scheduled for rain this evening. Temps are bouncing around between the 50 and low 80's with winds gusting all over the place.
Telemaster.........Have you finalized how you will assemble your wing yet?
Flyer ...................................... I am surprised the FP and LA engines are popular I have found them to be rather low on the longevity poll not to mention their reduce power. none the less I am happy controline is seeing a resurgence, my bet is the FAA rules is the reason.
When I made the decision to stay here (TEXAS) I didn't realize how it would keep me away from that cold fluffy stuff that falls from the sky and that suits me just fine. it gets hot as hell here sometimes but we don't have to shovel it out of our way
04-21-2018, 07:16 PM
#5894
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
Posts: 2,132
Received 146 Likes
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123 Posts
Donny I have decided to build the Reserve Model using nine Super 60 ribs per wing-half and three balsa spars with leading edge sheeting, in other words a Super 60 wing with Baron tips and full-depth dihedral braces. Under the rules of the competition you are allowed a free hand in the construction of the wing provided that it conforms to the general shape of the Baron's wing plus or minus 10%. I'll keep the thicker Super 60 aerofoil as this will slow the model down in a dive which could be important in the first and forth rounds of the competition. I also intend to use the Super 60's dihedral angle which is a little less than that of the Baron; I notice that several blokes used less than stock dihedral on their entries. I suppose that this might make them a bit more manouevrable. The Super 60 was available with either a three-channel or an aileron wing. The models in Post 5875 both have aileron wings. I have attached a picture of one of the Super 60s with three-channel wing below. I intend to replace the plywood in the forward fuselage of the Reserve Model with 1/4" (6mm) balsa sheet. I'm not sure whether to use ply doublers in the forward fuselage of the Reserve Model. I'm aiming for light weight but I don't suppose they add much weight but they contribute greatly to the model's strength. I have an electric motor which I used to use in a Telemaster 40 which I was thinking of installing in the Reserve Model but some of the boys suggested that I should stick with a four-stroke too because they sound nicer! The trouble is that the maximum size four-stroke that is eligible for the competition is 7cc or 0.42cu.ins and while I have quite a collection of four-strokes they are all bigger than that. I might just have a look on eBay for another OS 40 Surpass or a Saito 40. I've never owned a Saito.
I flew the model with what you dubbed the "Battering Ram" wing, that is a wing without ailerons, for first time yesterday. It flew very well but required full right rudder trim. I'll try the effect of introducing a little more right side thrust, two washers under the engine mount. I flew the model without pilot, engine cowling, machine gun or dummy wing warping wires, all of which are compulsory in the competition and will have to be added over the next few days. Pictures to follow.
Other than that the weather has been gorgeous recently and I dug over last year's potato patch by hand. Then I used the rotovator on the rest of the "potagé." The engine speed on the rotovator is controlled by a plastic lever in a quadrant made of plastic. I was about three quarters of the way through the job when I reached over to adjust the engine speed, and succeeded in breaking off the knob by accidentally pushing it sideways instead of fore and aft! I thought, "I haven't been an aeromodeller for decades without knowing something about glues!" So I glued the knob back on with cyano. However, I succeeded in glueing the whole mechanism together and nearly glued two fingers together too! All the time the engine was running at about quarter speed so I had to finish the work at slow speed. Then I thought, "You didn't keep all of those recalcitrant old British motor cycles going in your youth without learning something about mechanics!" So I detached the quadrant from the handles and broke the glue joint by using a screw driver as a leaver!
I am thinking of rivetting a metal extension to the mechanism, maybe with a nice wooden or china knob on the end of it!
Happy Landings Gentlemen! Picture of three-channel Super 60 below.
PS. I have just received the official entry list for the Coupe Des Barons. Most entrants are using electric motors and of the rest only one is using a four-stroke, an OS 40 Surpass like mine.However, two guys have dropped out so get your entries in now and start building. I'll translate for you!
I flew the model with what you dubbed the "Battering Ram" wing, that is a wing without ailerons, for first time yesterday. It flew very well but required full right rudder trim. I'll try the effect of introducing a little more right side thrust, two washers under the engine mount. I flew the model without pilot, engine cowling, machine gun or dummy wing warping wires, all of which are compulsory in the competition and will have to be added over the next few days. Pictures to follow.
Other than that the weather has been gorgeous recently and I dug over last year's potato patch by hand. Then I used the rotovator on the rest of the "potagé." The engine speed on the rotovator is controlled by a plastic lever in a quadrant made of plastic. I was about three quarters of the way through the job when I reached over to adjust the engine speed, and succeeded in breaking off the knob by accidentally pushing it sideways instead of fore and aft! I thought, "I haven't been an aeromodeller for decades without knowing something about glues!" So I glued the knob back on with cyano. However, I succeeded in glueing the whole mechanism together and nearly glued two fingers together too! All the time the engine was running at about quarter speed so I had to finish the work at slow speed. Then I thought, "You didn't keep all of those recalcitrant old British motor cycles going in your youth without learning something about mechanics!" So I detached the quadrant from the handles and broke the glue joint by using a screw driver as a leaver!
I am thinking of rivetting a metal extension to the mechanism, maybe with a nice wooden or china knob on the end of it!
Happy Landings Gentlemen! Picture of three-channel Super 60 below.
PS. I have just received the official entry list for the Coupe Des Barons. Most entrants are using electric motors and of the rest only one is using a four-stroke, an OS 40 Surpass like mine.However, two guys have dropped out so get your entries in now and start building. I'll translate for you!
04-22-2018, 07:32 AM
#5896
Thread Starter
Telemaster
Much luck to you with the wing mods, you seem to have it all worked out. The super 60 seems like a old friend, it reminds me of several models that were popular here in the nineteen sixties and were good flyers for the reed type radios in use at the time and transitioned well to the newer (proportional) radios.
The battering ram wing may need wing tip to tip balancing or it maybe warped.
I think if I were to enter the la coupe De Barons It would be with a electric powered model because of the reliability of electrics.
You have a cheering section going for you here, go get em tiger!
Much luck to you with the wing mods, you seem to have it all worked out. The super 60 seems like a old friend, it reminds me of several models that were popular here in the nineteen sixties and were good flyers for the reed type radios in use at the time and transitioned well to the newer (proportional) radios.
The battering ram wing may need wing tip to tip balancing or it maybe warped.
I think if I were to enter the la coupe De Barons It would be with a electric powered model because of the reliability of electrics.
You have a cheering section going for you here, go get em tiger!
04-22-2018, 10:51 AM
#5897
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
Posts: 2,132
Received 146 Likes
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123 Posts
I know what you mean Donny but I've always enjoyed messing about with engines. Flew the Battering Ram Baron this afternoon it was ok but I haven't flown without ailerons in years, Junior 60 accepted!, and it is a little weird trying to rediscover old skills. Thanks for your support.
Karolh, the Super Sixty is covered in Vintage Red Solartex with trim in Solartex White and Solartex Black. Get some while you can!
Karolh, the Super Sixty is covered in Vintage Red Solartex with trim in Solartex White and Solartex Black. Get some while you can!
04-23-2018, 04:49 AM
#5899
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Measnes, La Creuse, France.
Posts: 2,132
Received 146 Likes
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123 Posts
Karolh, I've never used Monocote or Ultracote so can't comment! However, I have used the European equivalents Solarfilm and Oracover and found Solartex easier to use. Bear in mind however, that Solartex is a woven fabric and is heavy compared with plastic films: 85-98 grammes per square metre for Solartex as opposed to 50-68 gsm for Solarfilm. There are about 28 grammes to the ounce.
Solartex suits Vintage and Old Timer Models, and any scale aircraft which uses fabric-covered surfaces from pre WW1 aircraft to Piper Cubs.
The company has recently ceased production hence my advice to buy some while you can. https://solarfilm.co.uk/
Solartex suits Vintage and Old Timer Models, and any scale aircraft which uses fabric-covered surfaces from pre WW1 aircraft to Piper Cubs.
The company has recently ceased production hence my advice to buy some while you can. https://solarfilm.co.uk/