R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

I don't know where to post this, but. . . . I visited my LHS today and found out that he is being shut out from ordering from Horizon Hobbies. It seems that he hadn't ordered their minimum of $2500 yet this month (today is the 24th of the month) and they won't allow him to order anything more. Which means that anything I want that comes from Horizon as a distributor will not be available from my LHS. I can see that Horizon with their new owners would like to shut out the LHS and get the additional revenue from us modelers who would then buy direct from them. Sadly, this will severely restrict our smaller LHS businesses, resulting in their going out of business. What a shame. I recommend that you all write to Horizon and tell them what you think about this. We have lamented the demise of our local shops. Maybe it's time we begin to speak up. Lee

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

The really sad thing is, even if the LHS does manage to make their minimum order each month, the LHS is still competing with Horizon! Especially as Horizon has a powerful web presence, and a large advertising / marketing budget. It's like a "lose - lose" situation for the LHS. Horizon is what I call a predatory distributor. And the only thing that will stop them is a full-on boycott, which will never happen.

All I can say is that I never deal directly with Horizon. For small stuff I go to my LHS, and for Saito stuff I use rcjapan.com. Otherwise it's still Tower Hobbies, or LHS's with a web presence.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I'm always amazed at the people that want to boycott a company, as if that ever happens, and not sure how that would help anything. Horizon is about the biggest player out there, they didn't get that way from being "predatory". Nobody is forcing a hobby shop to carry their stuff. Up until recently they had a sterling reputation for product and service, now that's slightly different given the purchase of the company and some changes in how they operate. Ya gotta wonder about a shop that can't clear 2500 in HH product stuff given their price point on stuff.

Checklst

Its not Horizon killing the little hobby shop............. it's internet shopping and unbelievable great shipping companies.

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

Porcia- of course they're predatory. Business is a predatory thing, by its very nature! But the matter is made worse by the fact that the LHS is competing with its supplier / distributor. And if you actually read my post, then you will see that I'm not advocating a boycott. I'm saying that it would never happen. Horizon has good product, they know it, and not a thing can be done to change the way business is done.

I'm always amazed at people who can read but don't (or won't) comprehend...

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

Porcia- of course they're predatory. Business is a predatory thing, by its very nature! But the matter is made worse by the fact that the LHS is competing with its supplier / distributor. And if you actually read my post, then you will see that I'm not advocating a boycott. I'm saying that it would never happen. Horizon has good product, they know it, and not a thing can be done to change the way business is done.

I'm always amazed at people who can read but don't (or won't) comprehend...

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

All distributors have minimum order requirements,, it prevents you and me from says we're a hobby shop and making small orders to get the wholesale rates for our buddies,,, thus protecting the network of dealers.

Sad for that shop that they don't have the local monetary support, but it's not the distributor's fault, sounds to be it's the beginning of the end for that shop.

fliers1

http://www.gpmd.com/howto.html

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

First issue is many times the minimum applies to proprietary brands. In other words, he may be required to order $2500 per month of Horizon branded product. Other brands may not count.

The next problem for a shop is that he probably deals with 10 or more distributors, each with their own minimum order requirements. Unless business is robust and the product lines popular in his area it will be difficult to meet every distributors minimums. I agree that internet shopping is likely having a profound affect on this hobby shop and the owner has decided that Horizon can no longer provide the mix of products his customers demand. In other words it might be a Futaba, OS, Great Planes part of the country instead of a JR, Evolution, Hobby Zone part.

This also happens when a game changing technology hits the marketplace. Remember when 2.4 ghz first appeared with Spektrum? Futaba was almost 2 years behind. Around here we were solidly Futaba, you couldn't give a JR radio away! Then Spektrum hit with 2.4 and within a year the entire thing flipped, all of a sudden no one wanted a Futaba radio. Now several years later it's still Spektrum and JR. It doesn't take too many radio sales to make a real difference in distributor minimums.

The distributors try to force dealers to stock ONLY their products at the expense of other distributors. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

The power of the purse dictates who will stay in business and the LHS has always charged retail. Being a purchasing agent in my career I'm fully aware of how the system works. Believe me or not but you the modeler have been fleeced by the LHS.

chuckk2

Loose a discount for not having enough $$ order is common. Total cut off is uncommon.

Hossfly

R/C Lee, Horizon is simply one of the batch. Notice "fliers1" post, and the web address. The story is there when you come up with "GREAT PLANES"

Once upon a time, (mid 1970s) there were some college kids that opened a hobby business in mid-west Illinois. It was called Tower Hobby soon to be Tower Hobbies as a distributor. There were some additions, I don't recall exactly who was all invested. I do recall that a super big-time HOBBY group, "B-Paul Hobby" in Philadelphia, PA. was a giant in the hobby distribution world. When the IL folks were near starvation, "B-Paul" stepped in to build Tower up.

At the time, the "70's" I owned a retail Hobby Shop, in Mt. Prospect, IL. As an airline pilot then, I maintained as many lay-overs in "Phili" as I could. B-Paul had better
and more stuff than the local Chicago Area two groups had. ( Midwest Model Supply - MODELs _ and another that I cannot recall right now which was more into toys
and stuff for the toy-stores) B-Paul shipped very fast. I used B-Paul considerably, along with Tower and Horizon for different items. Still do!

Soon TOWER had another item called "Horrizon". Ever think about how two businesses can get more stuff, plus Taxes can be deferred, etc., etc., Back then my
Aero-Sports Hobby Shop, Sub Chapter S Corporation, was almost a license to steal. .! I Sent my 3 kids through good colleges on my 3 Sub-Chapter S Corporations. Ain't that way anymore!!!

Great Planes owns Tower, Horizon and several other over-seas companies including Super Tigre and Thunder-Tigre plus others. Ever wonder why a Super Tigre ain't around anymore?

The real world is a whole different world from just 6 years ago, and will very soon be something that most of us ain't gonna' be fond of. If you are into gold and silver, get all you can find. If you like green-backs horde all you can get.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Ain't that the truth. Take some of your own advice and go back and read my post...where again did I say you advocated a boycott? This might be hard to believe, but not every post is going to be a response to one of yours.

Even more so with a comment like "business is a predatory thing, by it's very nature". Not much sense trying to discuss that nugget of wisdom.

Tony Iannucelli

My Feedback: (193)

Tower is 100 percent employee owned.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

".....Great Planes owns Tower,..." Since when? Or do you mean PWNed?

ira d

Hobbico is I believe the parent company and they own Great Planes and Tower, I have heard before that Hobbico owns Super Tiger but I don't think they own Thunder Tiger.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

More than likely correct....I meant to quote as follows;

"..Great Planes owns Tower, Horizon........."

Just wasn't aware Great Planes now owned Horizon......

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

Well then whose post were you responding to, smart guy? Considering that mine was the 2nd in the thread, and used the word "boycott"... And yours was the third? Hmmm?

ira d

I can find no official word that Great Planes owns horizon although I know Horizon changed ownership last year. I don't think the big distributors have so much run the LHS out
of business as it's just that times have changed, Before the internet if you went to the hobby shop for something and they didn't have it you had to wait until they could get it
or drive around to other shops or drive back to a shop to pick up the item when it came in.

Also I think many shops could not carry the inventory they really needed to carry so when internet shopping came along it made things a lot better for the shopper. There are
two hobby shops in my area that are doing well both are about thirty miles from me but they are well stocked and you can usually find what you need first trip and of course
they can get things fast at no additional charge. But for some things I have to order online because it is not available anywhere local but then again no one store can have
everything but the stores that went under just did not have the inventory and also high prices. There was a store that opened in my area that lasted only one year and that
was their problem, I went in one time and asked the price of glow fuel it was $28.00 but yet you could purchase fuel all day long for less than $20.00 and sometimes even
less at other area stores.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Hmmmm......as much as I'd like to tell you the world revolves around your posts, it doesn't. You're not the first to call for a boycott against a company, ill conceived, simplistic, and shortsighted a suggestion as it is, and won't be the last.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You won't find any word that Great Planes owns Horizon, because they don't (they are privately owned). It's just easier for some folks to throw comments out like that without any basis in truth, sort of like saying every business is predatory because that's the nature of business.

Happy Friday!

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

I find it very hard to believe the OP's post stating that Horizon is out to squash the little guy. I have several LHS in my area. Some do a lot of volume and some only buy a little form Horizon. Ive seen the smaller shop owners pick up the phone many times to call Horizon after finding out that Horizon sold them an item, which Horizon now has on sale below the retailers MAP price. Horizon was always quick to make the financial adjustment to the LHS account, so the LHS could pass the savings on to the retail customer, on the spot.

Ive dealt with horizon for years directly as well as through LHS's. As a master distributor, Horizon relies on LHS's for business. They are not out to squash the little guy. Sure they earn larger gross profits when selling direct to the public but they still need and support the retail LHS's.

There is more about his account that we are not aware of. Payment history #1, total gross purchases to justify having an account and meeting certain requirements. ect.. ect...

BTW, to the above posts. GP doesn't own Horizon. Hobbico owns GP and many other brand names.
http://www.hobbico.com/brands.html

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

I think some people assume that Horizon and Tower Hobbies/Hobbico are the same company because both are headquartered in the same small town, Champaign, IL. I must admit that it does seem odd that one small town should have the two largest hobby distributors.

I'll bet the local club has a NICE field!

hsukaria

I bet that the two biggest distributors, Horizon and Tower, would not share the same field/club. Too much competition and egos will get in the way. Besides, there will always be some "secret" new models in development that the developer would not want the competition to see.
I like Tower Hobbies a lot. I dealt with Horizon in the past. I love Saito engines and Seagull planes. Seagull is gone to Sig now and I buy my Saitos used. So, not much purchasing from them nowadays. I built 2 Hangar 9 ARF's. They were nice, but extra pricey, IMO. The 2 Hangar 9 ARF's were high quality, but each had some design flaw(s) that I did not encounter with other brands.

hsukaria

RCU is double-posting for some reason.