Quique and Dave Ribbe accidents at Joe Nall
06-02-2015, 01:52 PM
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Quique and Dave Ribbe accidents at Joe Nall
Mr. Ribbe is making an effort to resolve the situation. Out of respect for his attempt to work towards a resolution I am closing the thread
We have started replacing the first mustang that went down. About a week worth of work so far.
We have started replacing the first mustang that went down. About a week worth of work so far.
Last edited by Condor060; 06-03-2015 at 07:45 AM.
06-02-2015, 04:08 PM
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Mr. Quique and Mr. Ribbe were showing off their new Flex Innovations aircraft while hovering on the electric flight line without spotters. They caused the crash of two of our FMS show aircraft on two separate occasions two hours apart.
They have ignored our continued request to discuss options to replace the downed aircraft to the point where we finally filed formal complaints with the AMA.
If you were on the electric flight line and witnessed either of these events you are encouraged to post your thoughts.
Just because you are an RC celebrity it doesn't give you the right to claim the flight line as your own and it certainly doesn't safeguard you from being liable for irresponsible actions.
Below is a formal copy of the complaint filed with the AMA. My question is, if they are willing to treat fellow show team members like this on the flight line, why would anyone expect them to act different if they purchased a new Flex Innovations aircraft from them?
I guess its buyer beware.
Mrs. Ilona Maine
Safety and Member Benefits Director
Academy of Model Aeronautics
From: Fred Culbertson
CEO Condor Aerial
Monroe, NC
Gavin Woodruff
Rincon, GA
Dear Mrs. Maine,
My name is Fred Culbertson. I have been an AMA member for 35 years (on and off) and this is the first time in all my years I felt the need to contact the AMA about a safety or negligence issue regarding another AMA member. I currently own a company (www.CondorAerial.com) which provides drones to federal law enforcement so as you might conclude I have a lot of years invested in the RC community.
Additionally I am a sponsored pilot for Hitec and Dymond USA. During the Joe Nall events over the years my show team provides a daily warbird formation flights on the electric line. It is usually in the afternoon when we are all finished working on vendor row. It is sometimes 4 aircraft and at times up to 8. These aircraft are FMS 1700mm Mustangs/P-47s/Corsairs covered in flite metal with unique on board sound systems to replicate the engine and machine gun sounds of that era. They are all custom aircraft with many hours invested.
My complaint involves two current AMA members (Mr. Quique Somenzini and Mr. David Ribbe) Both individuals have acquired many accolades to their credit including multiple world champion recognition and currently own a company called Flex Innovations. (www.Flexinnovations.com) They have combined their efforts to market a new electric aircraft made for professional 3D events. You can review their individual accomplishments here.http://www.flexinnovations.com/index.php/about-us
On Thursday afternoon (May 14th around 5pm) the Dymond USA/Diamond Hobby/FMS team pilots and I brought 5 mustangs to the electric flight line to do our formation flight. We waited about 20 minutes until we could get the field for the flight. Once in the air we made 3 low passes in formation. Our next pass would be to land.
As you may (or may not know) the Joe Nall electric flight line is strictly pattern only. 3D flights are prohibited and every pilot is required to have a spotter during flight. I have flown on this flight line for many years and rules for this event are very clear.
As the formation team was on the downwind leg of the flight Mr. David Ribbe (without any verbal take off warning to the other pilots) put his new Flex Innovations plane in the air and began to hover and complete other 3D maneuvers over the runway in front of his pilot station. I didn’t know who it was so I asked the team to make a high pass over the hovering plane so we could get him to move the aircraft so we could land.
After many calls out for landing from me and others the hovering plane continued to do harriers and other low maneuvers. As I was watching Mr. Ribbes plane (as well as the team flight) I was walking closer to get Mr. Ribbes attention. Between the confusion of watching his plane coming closer to the team, yelling out we are trying to land, noting the position of Mr. Ribbes plane in conjunction with the formation, and the flight of 5 identical mustangs switching positions I lost my show mustang in the chaos. It was a total loss.
I have 3 years and well over 300 flights on this aircraft performing at numerous RC events.
I walked over to Mr. Ribbe at his pilot station (where he stood alone without a spotter) and in a pretty angry voice told him to move his plane so the team could land. My guys were out of battery so they had to take their chances landing under Mr. Ribbe. Even as I am pointing out to him the formation trying to land (which is now rolling under Mr. Ribbes plane) he doesn’t see the problem.
When I confronted Mr. Ribbe about his flight during our passes he said he never heard anyone yelling for a landing and if he saw one of our planes landing he would have moved. I pointed out that when I came up to him on the flight line they were landing underneath him and he never moved. I asked him why he was hovering on the electric flight line in the first place and he said it was accepted this year. When I asked him why he didn’t have a spotter he said we just have to agree to disagree.
In my opinion there is no way Mr. Ribbe was able to walk to the flight line without seeing the formation flight or the people watching the show. Furthermore, to launch a hovering aircraft in the middle of the runway during our flight is unreasonable at best. The fact that he had no spotter and was unable to hear us yelling landing is not an excuse and poor judgment. He was just looking to cash in on the crowd we attracted to the flight line at a cost of everyone’s safety risk.
After my discussion with Mr. Ribbe I thought it would be better if this was addressed outside the event so I didn’t approach him again. Chris Champion and I were flying for Hitec at the time and Diamond Hobbies and FMS had their own pilots with aircraft in this formation. They all have come to the same conclusion.
Two hours later on the very same flight line my team takes off for another formation flight. After two passes Mr. Quique launches another Flex Innovations aircraft and begins hovering over the runway. Again, without a spotter or calling for a takeoff. The team was yelling to move the hovering aircraft but their request were again ignored. This time it resulted in a collision of Mr. Woodruffs P-51 Mustang and Mr. Quique’s Flex Innovations aircraft and another total destruction of one of our FMS show planes. Mr. Quique landed his plane with minor damage.
The general consensus is that Mr. Ribbe and Mr, Quique can do what they want because they are RC celebrities. If they wanted to show off their new aircraft I am sure ANY flight line at Joe Nall would accommodate them. That goes without saying. The fact that they feel they can jump on the electric line for a Flex Innovation stage to hover aircraft during our formation flight and not use a spotter with total disregard for his fellow pilots on the flight line is just irresponsible and negligent at best.
My disappointment is directed at the attitude of Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique about the situation as well as their arrogance in refusing to yield to the flight team during our formation flight as well as their total disregard for the aircraft we lost. We never received so much as an apology.
I sent Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique two emails asking them to discuss the incident over the last two weeks and they refuse to even acknowledge our request.
My cost on the plane, FMS 1700mm Mustang $439, speed controller, $150, battery, $125, sound system and speakers $245 totals $959. This does not include the 70 + hours installing flite metal. I am not sure as to Mr. Woodruffs total loss but you can at least count on the replacement of another FMS warbird for $439. I don’t know about his speed controller and battery.
I will be more than happy to provide you with pictures of the plane and equipment. The battery shorted out burning the sound card and speed controller. I had to put a larger speed controller in the plane because we advanced the blade pitch and the stock speed controller that came with the plane can’t handle the extra amp draw on the motor.
I spoke with Mr. Mike Gregory who is the CD for the Joe Nall event. He confirmed the fact that 3D flying on the electric line is in direct violation of the rules set forth by the event and flying without spotters is prohibited. He also asked that I give him a written statement as to the situation which I provided. Mr. Gregory was most apologetic and called a meeting with the directors of Joe Nall about the two accidents. He also knew of the two accidents involving Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique prior to my phone call as other pilots were complaining as well. He said next year he plans on having more air bosses on the line with very strict rules of how the electric flight line will be run and the behavior of Mr. Quique and Mr. Ribbe is unacceptable.
Since Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are ignoring our request for discussion it is more apparent they feel above the situation and are above reproach. I notified them both we were going to file a complaint with AMA which obviously is of no concern to them as they continue to ignore our repeated request to discuss the situation. This type of self-serving behavior from experienced national champions at the largest RC event on the east coast in front of a host of spectators is inexcusable and negligent and unfortunately sets the standard for other AMA members.
Fred Culbertson
Gavin Woodruff
CC Mr. Mike Gregory
Joe Nall CD
We have started replacing the first mustang that went down. About a week worth of work so far.
They have ignored our continued request to discuss options to replace the downed aircraft to the point where we finally filed formal complaints with the AMA.
If you were on the electric flight line and witnessed either of these events you are encouraged to post your thoughts.
Just because you are an RC celebrity it doesn't give you the right to claim the flight line as your own and it certainly doesn't safeguard you from being liable for irresponsible actions.
Below is a formal copy of the complaint filed with the AMA. My question is, if they are willing to treat fellow show team members like this on the flight line, why would anyone expect them to act different if they purchased a new Flex Innovations aircraft from them?
I guess its buyer beware.
Mrs. Ilona Maine
Safety and Member Benefits Director
Academy of Model Aeronautics
From: Fred Culbertson
CEO Condor Aerial
Monroe, NC
Gavin Woodruff
Rincon, GA
Dear Mrs. Maine,
My name is Fred Culbertson. I have been an AMA member for 35 years (on and off) and this is the first time in all my years I felt the need to contact the AMA about a safety or negligence issue regarding another AMA member. I currently own a company (www.CondorAerial.com) which provides drones to federal law enforcement so as you might conclude I have a lot of years invested in the RC community.
Additionally I am a sponsored pilot for Hitec and Dymond USA. During the Joe Nall events over the years my show team provides a daily warbird formation flights on the electric line. It is usually in the afternoon when we are all finished working on vendor row. It is sometimes 4 aircraft and at times up to 8. These aircraft are FMS 1700mm Mustangs/P-47s/Corsairs covered in flite metal with unique on board sound systems to replicate the engine and machine gun sounds of that era. They are all custom aircraft with many hours invested.
My complaint involves two current AMA members (Mr. Quique Somenzini and Mr. David Ribbe) Both individuals have acquired many accolades to their credit including multiple world champion recognition and currently own a company called Flex Innovations. (www.Flexinnovations.com) They have combined their efforts to market a new electric aircraft made for professional 3D events. You can review their individual accomplishments here.http://www.flexinnovations.com/index.php/about-us
On Thursday afternoon (May 14th around 5pm) the Dymond USA/Diamond Hobby/FMS team pilots and I brought 5 mustangs to the electric flight line to do our formation flight. We waited about 20 minutes until we could get the field for the flight. Once in the air we made 3 low passes in formation. Our next pass would be to land.
As you may (or may not know) the Joe Nall electric flight line is strictly pattern only. 3D flights are prohibited and every pilot is required to have a spotter during flight. I have flown on this flight line for many years and rules for this event are very clear.
As the formation team was on the downwind leg of the flight Mr. David Ribbe (without any verbal take off warning to the other pilots) put his new Flex Innovations plane in the air and began to hover and complete other 3D maneuvers over the runway in front of his pilot station. I didn’t know who it was so I asked the team to make a high pass over the hovering plane so we could get him to move the aircraft so we could land.
After many calls out for landing from me and others the hovering plane continued to do harriers and other low maneuvers. As I was watching Mr. Ribbes plane (as well as the team flight) I was walking closer to get Mr. Ribbes attention. Between the confusion of watching his plane coming closer to the team, yelling out we are trying to land, noting the position of Mr. Ribbes plane in conjunction with the formation, and the flight of 5 identical mustangs switching positions I lost my show mustang in the chaos. It was a total loss.
I have 3 years and well over 300 flights on this aircraft performing at numerous RC events.
I walked over to Mr. Ribbe at his pilot station (where he stood alone without a spotter) and in a pretty angry voice told him to move his plane so the team could land. My guys were out of battery so they had to take their chances landing under Mr. Ribbe. Even as I am pointing out to him the formation trying to land (which is now rolling under Mr. Ribbes plane) he doesn’t see the problem.
When I confronted Mr. Ribbe about his flight during our passes he said he never heard anyone yelling for a landing and if he saw one of our planes landing he would have moved. I pointed out that when I came up to him on the flight line they were landing underneath him and he never moved. I asked him why he was hovering on the electric flight line in the first place and he said it was accepted this year. When I asked him why he didn’t have a spotter he said we just have to agree to disagree.
In my opinion there is no way Mr. Ribbe was able to walk to the flight line without seeing the formation flight or the people watching the show. Furthermore, to launch a hovering aircraft in the middle of the runway during our flight is unreasonable at best. The fact that he had no spotter and was unable to hear us yelling landing is not an excuse and poor judgment. He was just looking to cash in on the crowd we attracted to the flight line at a cost of everyone’s safety risk.
After my discussion with Mr. Ribbe I thought it would be better if this was addressed outside the event so I didn’t approach him again. Chris Champion and I were flying for Hitec at the time and Diamond Hobbies and FMS had their own pilots with aircraft in this formation. They all have come to the same conclusion.
Two hours later on the very same flight line my team takes off for another formation flight. After two passes Mr. Quique launches another Flex Innovations aircraft and begins hovering over the runway. Again, without a spotter or calling for a takeoff. The team was yelling to move the hovering aircraft but their request were again ignored. This time it resulted in a collision of Mr. Woodruffs P-51 Mustang and Mr. Quique’s Flex Innovations aircraft and another total destruction of one of our FMS show planes. Mr. Quique landed his plane with minor damage.
The general consensus is that Mr. Ribbe and Mr, Quique can do what they want because they are RC celebrities. If they wanted to show off their new aircraft I am sure ANY flight line at Joe Nall would accommodate them. That goes without saying. The fact that they feel they can jump on the electric line for a Flex Innovation stage to hover aircraft during our formation flight and not use a spotter with total disregard for his fellow pilots on the flight line is just irresponsible and negligent at best.
My disappointment is directed at the attitude of Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique about the situation as well as their arrogance in refusing to yield to the flight team during our formation flight as well as their total disregard for the aircraft we lost. We never received so much as an apology.
I sent Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique two emails asking them to discuss the incident over the last two weeks and they refuse to even acknowledge our request.
My cost on the plane, FMS 1700mm Mustang $439, speed controller, $150, battery, $125, sound system and speakers $245 totals $959. This does not include the 70 + hours installing flite metal. I am not sure as to Mr. Woodruffs total loss but you can at least count on the replacement of another FMS warbird for $439. I don’t know about his speed controller and battery.
I will be more than happy to provide you with pictures of the plane and equipment. The battery shorted out burning the sound card and speed controller. I had to put a larger speed controller in the plane because we advanced the blade pitch and the stock speed controller that came with the plane can’t handle the extra amp draw on the motor.
I spoke with Mr. Mike Gregory who is the CD for the Joe Nall event. He confirmed the fact that 3D flying on the electric line is in direct violation of the rules set forth by the event and flying without spotters is prohibited. He also asked that I give him a written statement as to the situation which I provided. Mr. Gregory was most apologetic and called a meeting with the directors of Joe Nall about the two accidents. He also knew of the two accidents involving Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique prior to my phone call as other pilots were complaining as well. He said next year he plans on having more air bosses on the line with very strict rules of how the electric flight line will be run and the behavior of Mr. Quique and Mr. Ribbe is unacceptable.
Since Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are ignoring our request for discussion it is more apparent they feel above the situation and are above reproach. I notified them both we were going to file a complaint with AMA which obviously is of no concern to them as they continue to ignore our repeated request to discuss the situation. This type of self-serving behavior from experienced national champions at the largest RC event on the east coast in front of a host of spectators is inexcusable and negligent and unfortunately sets the standard for other AMA members.
Fred Culbertson
Gavin Woodruff
CC Mr. Mike Gregory
Joe Nall CD
We have started replacing the first mustang that went down. About a week worth of work so far.
I might have missed it, but where were your spotters? You said everyone is required to have one, did your flight team each have one as well? What were they doing while this all went down? If you didn't have them why. If you did, it seems as though they failed at their job.
If I read your comments right, while flying your plane you started watching the other plane, then began to try to talk with the other pilot, then started walking over to him and then started speaking angrily to him telling him to land the plane (while he is still flying). All the while you are also flying but then you "lost your mustang in the chaos". It sure sounded chaotic. It seems like you were the only one who lost a plane as well, the other planes were all able to land. If I'm not mistaken, it's a pretty size able runway....should anyone feel panicked about landing there? If I got the facts right, do you think there is anything you could have done differently? Do you think any of your actions contributed to the demise of your Mustang?
There are always two sides to every story, and then the truth. Here we have only your side and it's far from factual. You've made lot's of opinion based comments (that you might want to revise once you cool down) that I think diminish your credibility. Yes, that's my opinion based solely on what I've read. Here's mainly why:
"why would anyone expect them to act different if they purchased a new Flex Innovations aircraft from them?" What? Has nothing to do with anything, just a transparent knock on another vendor.
"He was just looking to cash in on the crowd we attracted to the flight line at a cost of everyone’s safety risk" (you own a company and make a comment like that about someone else?)
"They all have come to the same conclusion" Are you authorized to speak on their behalf? Why aren't they here telling everyone what happened? Did you tell them you were going to do this?
"The general consensus is that Mr. Ribbe and Mr, Quique can do what they want because they are RC celebrities". General concensus among who? Was a petition or declaration signed to this effect?
"The fact that they feel they can jump on the electric line for a Flex Innovation stage to hover aircraft during our formation flight and not use a spotter with total disregard for his fellow pilots on the flight line is just irresponsible and negligent at best" There is nothing here to prove they did this, nor showed intentional disregard.
"My disappointment is directed at the attitude of Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique about the situation as well as their arrogance in refusing to yield to the flight team during our formation flight as well as their total disregard for the aircraft we lost. We never received so much as an apology" This I think gets the heart of the matter....some lingering anger issues over not being told "sorry" Would that have made it better?
"Since Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are ignoring our request for discussion it is more apparent they feel above the situation and are above reproach" No, they probably feel like this was at best an accident and having been yelled at by you while they were flying, they probably feel like it's best to not engage.
So you took the complaint to the CD of the event and he called a meeting after getting your written statements. And then what? What happened? Did he speak to the other parties? Other than having more airbosses next year, what did he say. If he, and the directors felt there had been such reckless disregard here by the other two pilots, what do you think they should/could have done with them? Are you not upset with the CD as well?
What do you expect to accomplish with a complaint to the AMA?
Since you posted in a public forum, you're going to get opinions. It's nothing personal, you now have mine. I don't know any of the parties involved, but I think it was really poor form and execution on your part to do what you have done. I'm guessing you might feel like people will take the other parties side because you perceive them as some type of celebrities. Perhaps that will happen but I don't think so.
I'd delete it all.......I don't think you will accomplish anything positive here.
Last edited by porcia83; 06-02-2015 at 04:11 PM.
06-02-2015, 08:19 PM
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Mr. Ribbe is making an effort to resolve the situation. Out of respect for his attempt to work towards a resolution I am closing the thread
Last edited by Condor060; 06-03-2015 at 07:47 AM.
06-02-2015, 10:07 PM
#4
Mr. Porcia, I think you are way out of line and what you posted seems to be a direct attack of Mr. Culbertson. If the other party wants to state their side of the story, they are free to do so. It's seems that you made your judgement before you heard from both sides.
It's good to know what kind of people Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are. If they are responsible people, maybe we will hear from them.
What can the AMA do? Maybe suspend their AMA license violation of the Safety Rules. Maybe Joe Nall maybe held a little bit responsible for letting it go unchecked. After all. It is the CD's responsibility for safety rules at the event.
I now expect you to attack me, just as you did to so many others on RCGs.
Frank
It's good to know what kind of people Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are. If they are responsible people, maybe we will hear from them.
What can the AMA do? Maybe suspend their AMA license violation of the Safety Rules. Maybe Joe Nall maybe held a little bit responsible for letting it go unchecked. After all. It is the CD's responsibility for safety rules at the event.
I now expect you to attack me, just as you did to so many others on RCGs.
Frank
06-03-2015, 03:27 AM
#5
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Although I respect your opinion you seem to have a lot of input for someone who wasn't there and yes, I am speaking for the team who was on the flight line with spotters. First off I am not a vendor, just a pilot. Second I only confronted Mr. Ribbe after the plane went in to get him to move his aircraft. Hovering on the electric flight line is not permitted. Flying without spotters is not permitted or did you miss that particular point? I believe having similar accidents within a two hour time span goes a little further than your guess work as to who did what.
Your assumptions as to what might have happened doesn't change the facts but please feel free to guess on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.
Your assumptions as to what might have happened doesn't change the facts but please feel free to guess on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.
I would agree that if things occurred exactly as you said above (absent all the personal attacks on the other guys), what happened wasn't appropriate. At a minimum apologies were in order, and stand up guys would at least talk about it. I said there are two sides to every story, and then the truth. We have only one side here, and as I opined above, with all of the extra stuff you threw in, it seems like both parties share fault here.
"After many calls out for landing from me and others the hovering plane continued to do harriers and other low maneuvers. As I was watching Mr. Ribbes plane (as well as the team flight) I was walking closer to get Mr. Ribbes attention. Between the confusion of watching his plane coming closer to the team, yelling out we are trying to land, noting the position of Mr. Ribbes plane in conjunction with the formation, and the flight of 5 identical mustangs switching positions I lost my show mustang in the chaos."
Again, while flying your plane in formation, you had enough time to watch the other pilots airplane and note multiple maneuvers, then started walking to the other pilot to talk to him. All of the other pilots landed safely but you crashed. You don't feel any responsibility?
06-03-2015, 03:43 AM
#6
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Mr. Porcia, I think you are way out of line and what you posted seems to be a direct attack of Mr. Culbertson. If the other party wants to state their side of the story, they are free to do so. It's seems that you made your judgement before you heard from both sides.
It's good to know what kind of people Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are. If they are responsible people, maybe we will hear from them.
What can the AMA do? Maybe suspend their AMA license violation of the Safety Rules. Maybe Joe Nall maybe held a little bit responsible for letting it go unchecked. After all. It is the CD's responsibility for safety rules at the event.
I now expect you to attack me, just as you did to so many others on RCGs.
Frank
It's good to know what kind of people Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique are. If they are responsible people, maybe we will hear from them.
What can the AMA do? Maybe suspend their AMA license violation of the Safety Rules. Maybe Joe Nall maybe held a little bit responsible for letting it go unchecked. After all. It is the CD's responsibility for safety rules at the event.
I now expect you to attack me, just as you did to so many others on RCGs.
Frank
Being present and seeing what happened sure would be different than reading about it after the fact, but what was written above didn't make sense to me factually (nor to others at RCG), but I didn't feel like the personal attacks and character assignations added anything to the story (just as yours to me didn't really add much to your comments). I mentioned there were two sides to the story and we only had one so far. Video would be great of course to give some more context. Its doubtful the other pilots will come here or on RCG and respond. They are not irresponsible if they don't though. Why should they? Short of agreeing 100% with the OP and agreeing to pay, what will it settle? Nothing. I agree with your comments on the folks at Nall. I'd like to see what the CD said about this, and what their impression was. It's impossible for the CD to be everywhere, but there should be rules/regs in place, and a mechanism to deal with those that don't comply.
Doubtful AMA will do anything, I can't recall them pulling a license in years (but it may have happened). Perhaps if the folks at Nall agreed with the Op 100% a case could be made for some action, but that would beg the question as to why the folks at Nall didn't do anything.
06-03-2015, 04:46 AM
#7
Although I respect your opinion you seem to have a lot of input for someone who wasn't there and yes, I am speaking for the team who was on the flight line with spotters. First off I am not a vendor, just a pilot. Second I only confronted Mr. Ribbe after the plane went in to get him to move his aircraft. Hovering on the electric flight line is not permitted. Flying without spotters is not permitted or did you miss that particular point? I believe having similar accidents within a two hour time span goes a little further than your guess work as to who did what.
Your assumptions as to what might have happened doesn't change the facts but please feel free to guess on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.
Your assumptions as to what might have happened doesn't change the facts but please feel free to guess on. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion.
Hi Fred , Ok , so now you have established the fact that your team had spotters . I would like to know how you know the other pilots didn't have a spotter ? Were each alone talking to no one while each incident was happening , thus proving they weren't in contact with any spotters ? You mention not being heard , I'm curious , were either of them wearing any kinds of headset or earphones (so as to possibly be in radio contact with a spotter) ? It just seems really odd that someone would totally purposefully ignore repeated landing calls requesting a clear runway . That is what has me wondering if it was hubris or lack of good communication that caused the first incident ? Now the second incident , if your correct about no one being allowed any 3D over the runway , is far more troubling than the first . Sure , miscommunications happen all the time . Once . When there is a second , identical , crash two hours after the first this is no longer an accident , it's a pattern , and an indication that somehow someone isn't following protocol . Let me ask , did the CD hear about the first accident in time to warn all participants of the "no 3D" rule so as to attempt to prevent another accident ? It seems odd a CD would knowingly allow anyone , well known or not , to break the same rule that was just implicated in an accident so soon after the flying of the balsa confetti ? I will agree with Tom Porsche that your post contains far too much anger to be read as a 100% factual , unemotional , incident report from which we can form an educated opinion of what transpired . Sure , I understand , your angry at loosing your plane(s) and what you perceive as their indifference to your loss . The real problem in drawing any kinds of sold conclusion will be , of course , if either of them choose to post their version of what they think happened or not . cause if not , all we readers would have to go on will be your statement with it's facts jumbled all in there with the anger and character attacks . Who knows , is it lack of character or maybe not wanting to create further public spectacle for both theirs and your company that's keeping them from responding ? Or maybe , they see your confrontational opening post as a "no win" situation and care not to enter a discussion where no good could come from and only has the potential of degrading further ? Yes sir , I DO wish Mr.s QQ and D.Ribe would come in here and factually answer your accusation since no certain conclusion can be reached with only one side presented . Of course they are under no obligation to do so , but I would think that in the interest of "clearing the air" and presenting the counterpoint to your accusation , a lot could be learned here if either chose to post .
06-03-2015, 05:04 AM
#8
Also , as an addendum to my above post I'd like to ask ;
Ok , so , you established that you did , in fact , have spotters .
So , how many spotters ? One for the flight of 5 ? One for each of the 5 ? What in the Hell were they doing while someone was performing a not allowed mode of flight over an active runway ? Just standing there watching ? Looking elsewhere ? Texting their cutiepie and not keeping their eye on the action ? Cause it just boggles the mind that if each of 5 pilots flying in formation all had properly trained spotters , how the offending aircraft and it's pilot weren't confronted the instant the non allowed flight took off , and things progressed to the point of not one crash but two identical within two hours ?
To this old coot , it just seems rather , , , odd .......
Ok , so , you established that you did , in fact , have spotters .
So , how many spotters ? One for the flight of 5 ? One for each of the 5 ? What in the Hell were they doing while someone was performing a not allowed mode of flight over an active runway ? Just standing there watching ? Looking elsewhere ? Texting their cutiepie and not keeping their eye on the action ? Cause it just boggles the mind that if each of 5 pilots flying in formation all had properly trained spotters , how the offending aircraft and it's pilot weren't confronted the instant the non allowed flight took off , and things progressed to the point of not one crash but two identical within two hours ?
To this old coot , it just seems rather , , , odd .......
06-03-2015, 06:30 AM
#9
"As the formation team was on the downwind leg of the flight Mr. David Ribbe (without any verbal take off warning to the other pilots) put his new Flex Innovations plane in the air and began to hover and complete other 3D maneuvers over the runway in front of his pilot station. I didn’t know who it was so I asked the team to make a high pass over the hovering plane so we could get him to move the aircraft so we could land."
The pilot stations were like 20 feet way from each other. Seems to me that you could have used other means of communication to get your point across.
The pilot stations were like 20 feet way from each other. Seems to me that you could have used other means of communication to get your point across.
06-03-2015, 07:47 AM
#11
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Just so you know 3d is NOT prohibited on the E line, flight style is the choice of the pilot I looked at the site not 3 min ago to make sure I didn't make an ass of myself as you have done.
06-03-2015, 08:12 AM
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So this is your first post on RCU? According to Mr. Gregory (The CD of the event) hovering in not allowed and spotters are required. You can take it up with him.
06-03-2015, 08:21 AM
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Yes I never post here read a lot and sale and buy here, I started each day at the main line, they do not mention rules of the E line durring the pilots meeting, but to relax I flew at the end of the day on said E line, I went but the discription that is in black and white on the website prior to flying there. Maybe they should make this clear as they do in the discription for the main line and it will prevent hurt feelings from cracked foam.
06-03-2015, 08:33 AM
#14
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What does the number of his posts have to do with anything? He was actually there too! So again, since you've brought up spotters, did each of your pilots have a spotter, including you? If so, what was your spotter doing while this was all going down?
06-03-2015, 08:35 AM
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Or maybe it would be wise to have all the facts before you call someone an ass on your first post or try and equate a $1000 investment to hurt feelings over cracked foam.
06-03-2015, 08:48 AM
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Ok yes it was my first post in this manor, I am not new to the hobby I have been in it for 20years, I had the facts, I looked prior to flying and looked again prior to commenting on the matter. Look it up yourself. I flew both a 30% and a 35% aircraft there worth thousands but I knew the chances when I took off and that my investment may go home in a trash bag, it's a chance you take by goin to these events..... point blank that's it. We are all just big boys playing with expensive toys.
06-03-2015, 09:10 AM
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I appreciate the opinions and I do take note that we all have investments that have expiration dates. Out of respect for Mr. Ribbe and Mr. Quique making an effort to discuss this with us I am not going to comment further on the situation. As far as I am concerned they are currently making a concerned effort to resolve this and in fairness to Mr Ribbe and Mr. Quique I will give them every opportunity.
06-03-2015, 09:21 AM
#19
I still have a hard time believing that 10 people (5 pilots and 5 spotters) couldn't get QQ or Dave's attention when they were 20 feet away.
My take on the situation was that you and your crew wanted to fly in formation to put on a show. You were upset that Dave was flying at the same time and as you put it "trying to cash in on the crowd you had gathered", so you instruct your crew to buzz him. Then you loose orientation and crash your plane cause you were focused on Dave. Do I have that part correct?
Then 2 hours later when you put on another "show" QQ launches his plane. Kinda made you mad again huh? So to rectify the situation you buzz him again only this time contact was made and you lost anther airplane. Again with 10 people vs just QQ. Nobody could communicate?
Oh, and PLEASE show me where the "Electric line" at Nall prohibits 3D flying?
I flew on the electric line and was there when QQ was flying his plane. So please tell me I'm wrong.
My take on the situation was that you and your crew wanted to fly in formation to put on a show. You were upset that Dave was flying at the same time and as you put it "trying to cash in on the crowd you had gathered", so you instruct your crew to buzz him. Then you loose orientation and crash your plane cause you were focused on Dave. Do I have that part correct?
Then 2 hours later when you put on another "show" QQ launches his plane. Kinda made you mad again huh? So to rectify the situation you buzz him again only this time contact was made and you lost anther airplane. Again with 10 people vs just QQ. Nobody could communicate?
Oh, and PLEASE show me where the "Electric line" at Nall prohibits 3D flying?
I flew on the electric line and was there when QQ was flying his plane. So please tell me I'm wrong.
Last edited by AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken; 06-03-2015 at 09:41 AM.
06-03-2015, 10:00 AM
#20
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I still have a hard time believing that 10 people (5 pilots and 5 spotters) couldn't get QQ or Dave's attention when they were 20 feet away.
My take on the situation was that you and your crew wanted to fly in formation to put on a show. You were upset that Dave was flying at the same time and as you put it "trying to cash in on the crowd you had gathered", so you instruct your crew to buzz him. Then you loose orientation and crash your plane cause you were focused on Dave. Do I have that part correct?
Then 2 hours later when you put on another "show" QQ launches his plane. Kinda made you mad again huh? So to rectify the situation you buzz him again only this time contact was made and you lost anther airplane. Again with 10 people vs just QQ. Nobody could communicate?
Oh, and PLEASE show me where the "Electric line" at Nall prohibits 3D flying?
I flew on the electric line and was there when QQ was flying his plane. So please tell me I'm wrong.
My take on the situation was that you and your crew wanted to fly in formation to put on a show. You were upset that Dave was flying at the same time and as you put it "trying to cash in on the crowd you had gathered", so you instruct your crew to buzz him. Then you loose orientation and crash your plane cause you were focused on Dave. Do I have that part correct?
Then 2 hours later when you put on another "show" QQ launches his plane. Kinda made you mad again huh? So to rectify the situation you buzz him again only this time contact was made and you lost anther airplane. Again with 10 people vs just QQ. Nobody could communicate?
Oh, and PLEASE show me where the "Electric line" at Nall prohibits 3D flying?
I flew on the electric line and was there when QQ was flying his plane. So please tell me I'm wrong.
06-03-2015, 11:54 AM
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The situation on the electric flight line was completely out of control this year. No 'pattern' at all. People who had no business flying at all, were criss-crossing back and forth, high-speed downwind passes way too close to the zero line (yes, downwind close in IS backwards to the pattern).
I was camped directly in front of the electric line and watched a weeks' worth of madness. There was no effort on anyone's part to exert any common sense to what was going on. I attended several of the pilots' meetings and the rules and procedures were explained, but it was like a fart in the wind when it came time to fly. I flew several times and lost two planes to midairs with guys going the wrong way, or hovering in front of the pilot stations.
One of the best things I saw was an elderly gent with a buddy box trying to get someone to help him fly. I had decided that when I landed I was going to go help him. He found someone while I was up. Then my spotter told me to get ready to run! The large Carbon Cub had taken off and immediately veered towards the pilot stations. It crashed 3 feet behind me and the pilot stations. After I was on the ground, it was discovered that it was the first flight on the plane and radio, and that the student (old guy) had the master radio, and his 'safety' pilot (instructor) was holding the slave transmitter. This same guy had earlier in the week lost two other planes; an Icon with no discernable control inputs into the trees behind the flite line AND behind all the campers in the new section, and an old-timey looking wooden built-up plane that had folded it's wing at Mach 2 in a dive right after takeoff. Both with buddy boxes, probably also reversed.......
I won't be going back to the Nall. There was a flight line person responsible for things at the E-line, but he was ineffective (politically correct here).
The E-fest at least still has control measures in place.
I was camped directly in front of the electric line and watched a weeks' worth of madness. There was no effort on anyone's part to exert any common sense to what was going on. I attended several of the pilots' meetings and the rules and procedures were explained, but it was like a fart in the wind when it came time to fly. I flew several times and lost two planes to midairs with guys going the wrong way, or hovering in front of the pilot stations.
One of the best things I saw was an elderly gent with a buddy box trying to get someone to help him fly. I had decided that when I landed I was going to go help him. He found someone while I was up. Then my spotter told me to get ready to run! The large Carbon Cub had taken off and immediately veered towards the pilot stations. It crashed 3 feet behind me and the pilot stations. After I was on the ground, it was discovered that it was the first flight on the plane and radio, and that the student (old guy) had the master radio, and his 'safety' pilot (instructor) was holding the slave transmitter. This same guy had earlier in the week lost two other planes; an Icon with no discernable control inputs into the trees behind the flite line AND behind all the campers in the new section, and an old-timey looking wooden built-up plane that had folded it's wing at Mach 2 in a dive right after takeoff. Both with buddy boxes, probably also reversed.......
I won't be going back to the Nall. There was a flight line person responsible for things at the E-line, but he was ineffective (politically correct here).
The E-fest at least still has control measures in place.
