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Quique and Dave Ribbe accidents at Joe Nall

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Quique and Dave Ribbe accidents at Joe Nall

Old 06-05-2015, 05:00 PM
  #76  
balsadust74
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Originally Posted by Axle Al
OK there's room here for more hatred and back pedaling. I can let it lay if you do, I only hope you and some others have become aware of the arrogance of the "top people" in this hobby and will support the people that probably like most of the older generation began this hobby for the pure enjoyment of model flight, Not for some cheers and clapping from crowds of spectators. these are the principles of model aviation. It will never make rock stars out of pilots. The fun of even a foamie piper cub may surprise even a big shot pilot. but it seems that once they take it to the level of where they seem to be a superstar, this kind of flyer can never return or never was a true modeler, just a stick banger braggart. I am a pretty good flyer and have heard compliments since I was 15 years old but never listen to it much. I fly for my own entertainment. I have a perspective that my model acomplishments come no where close to the deeds done by real pilots in real airplanes in multiple wars. This occurance at Joe Nall needs to wake up the last of the great generation of modelers and the AMA should devalue the awarding of "expert piloting" and promote the old values of modeling that gave model aviation it's standing as a respectable hobby of respectable people. Ban the wearing of team shirts that make people playing with airplanes look like clowns, would be a good start.
I completely agree Axle. There was a unwritten rule of respecting your fellow pilot regardless of their plane or their skills but with the values of society changing so do is model aviation, it is like everything else in the world, the majority seem to be out for themselves and not for promoting the hobby to others..
Old 06-05-2015, 05:39 PM
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Without being to dramatic about the beginnings of model aviation I have to say that if the new attention craving superstar flyers, turbines and big 3D, can disrespect a group of good willed warbird foam electric flyers, and this trend is growing, at a rate equal to the price tag of their "greater model airplanes" it seems, then I have to wonder how this group looks at rubber band models, co2, peanut scale, control line, free flight etc. the same models we still see in the AMA magazine. It makes me wonder if the AMA should stop the glorification of these types. It disgusts me to see the social class division of wealth come into model aviation the way it has since the development of more expensive models. If these 3D guys at this Joe Nall event represent the guys I see in the AMA magazine wearing the team shirts and holding trophies, If this is how they think and treat "lesser" modelers? then I don't want to see them in the pages of the AMA magazine!#! This trend of snobbery is a movement in the wrong direction for this hobby. Glorify the models, not the man and stop this disgraceful behavior.
Old 06-05-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Axle Al
"....Ban....."
Rarely the best solution to most situations, but anyway, carry on.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Old 06-05-2015, 06:23 PM
  #79  
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true that, I'm gonna go tomorrow and blow some nitro exhaust on some damn little foam electric loser airplane
Old 06-06-2015, 03:11 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by balsadust74
I am sorry I am late to the party here, I am the pilot of the second airplane that was lost, my plane struck Quique's plane. Due to Quique and David's planes hovering on a flight line where hovering isn't permitted on previous passes my spotter instructed me to take evasive turns or pull up out of the pattern to avoid the two hovering planes. At the time my plane hit Quique's plane I was 25 feet in front of flight station #2 flying toward flight station #3 between 25-30' from the ground. I was in the pattern flying a straight fly by, my spotter had requested that the two hovering planes move to the middle of the pattern. After the mid air my plane fell about 30' in front of flight station #3. After picking up the parts of my plane, I had hopped to have a calm debrief with Quique but his friend/other pilot David Ribbe started pointing his finger at me saying, "it's his fault he was flying though the center of the pattern where we are suppose to hover." (Keep in mind, no hovering is permitted) So much for a calm debrief or any hope of getting a sorry, or let me replace your plane. The conversation went down hit fast. I have flown with Fred a couple of times but don't profess to know him well, but I don't believe he was trying to defame Quique or David. I could be wrong but I feel that after having conversations with these men, who were arrogant on unapologetic for their role in the events, plus several attempts to contact them going unanswered, Fred was trying to get them to be stand up gentile men, which I am please to report they have in Fred's case. Regarding my loss, to my knowledge they haven't taken any action but I was unable to get in touch with FMS today for confirmation. Bottom line, every time you fly your plane you are taking a risk that it will not return in the same condition it departed the earth in, I did everything I could do to keep my plane safe except for listening to my gut which told me to stand down because of the other pilots and their disregard to anyone else attempting to fly. If a cordial conversation happened after the mid air and hey I am sorry about your airplane would have happened I would have been content. That isn't what happened and I don't feel that Quique or David should get a pass and people look other other way because of who they are. If I messed up and didn't own up to it I know people wouldn't look the other way for me and don't expect them too. I hope that everyone will learn something from this and that the staff at Joe Nall will work toward providing a safer environment to fly in. Hopefully everyone will be able to sit down and laugh about this next year at Nall.

Sincerly,

Gavin Woodruff
So you know there are planes hovering low over the runway and you do a low fly by anyways?? interesting
Old 06-06-2015, 06:02 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Axle Al
true that, I'm gonna go tomorrow and blow some nitro exhaust on some damn little foam electric loser airplane
You're still flying glow? LOL

Astro
Old 06-06-2015, 06:06 AM
  #82  
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When I did my fly by was shortly after my spotter requested that they move to the center of the pattern. I don't call flying 25-30 in the air a low fly by. I could only use a quarter of the runway due to where the planes were hovering.
Old 06-06-2015, 06:16 AM
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I have no reason the believe that had it been one of my $3,000 gasers that I would have been given anymore respect by the other parties. I don't see where I was winning, I believe I was just giving my account of of what happened.
Old 06-06-2015, 06:20 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by balsadust74
When I did my fly by was shortly after my spotter requested that they move to the center of the pattern. I don't call flying 25-30 in the air a low fly by. I could only use a quarter of the runway due to where the planes were hovering.
a flyby at 25 feet isn't low? Did you mean meters, or feet? 25 meters...fair enough. 25 feet....

Without knowing that the coast was clear, but knowing that 2 planes had been hovering in the same area, you entered the area at 25 feet?
Old 06-06-2015, 06:25 AM
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Regardless of the rules and who was or wasn't following them, it seems to me it is fairly easy to avoid a hovering airplane.......

........just sayin'..........

Astro
Old 06-06-2015, 06:51 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by balsadust74
I have no reason the believe that had it been one of my $3,000 gasers that I would have been given anymore respect by the other parties. I don't see where I was winning, I believe I was just giving my account of of what happened.

Ok , Duly noted , You haven't whined like the original poster was , with all his shade he was throwing on the two gent's business in his opening post . The whole "buyer beware" nonsense he posted was one of many things that exposed the attack nature of this thread for what it was supposed to be , a way to force one party to pay for what is highly likely the fault of both . I highlighted the relevant word in your statement because I believe it may just well have been that , a lack of respect for the fact that you can't buzz a hovering aircraft too close without running the risk of a collision . Twice .

Originally Posted by astrohog
Regardless of the rules and who was or wasn't following them, it seems to me it is fairly easy to avoid a hovering airplane.......

........just sayin'..........

Astro
Amen Astro !
Old 06-06-2015, 06:54 AM
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Astro,
I did take action to miss them several time, I was trying to give them as much room as possible, they started to move to the center of the pattern at the request of my spotter, my spotter thank them, I looked to make sure the area was clear but by the time my plane had entered the area the two planes hovering where not where I had last saw them, moments before. It is easy to avoid one hovering plane at a club field or local event but when you have several flight lines with over lapping patterns, pilots not flying a pilot stations it is not always easy to avoid two fairly large planes hovering directly over the active run way. I had changed my line of flight to avoid one plane and by the time I looked back toward the planes hovering I didn't have time to react to the. All six flight stations where in use, there was several drones in the air and micro planes being flow in the pits. It was just before dark and it was a free for all at them time. I was just a prefect storm of activity and I knew better that to get into the mix but wanted to get one last flight in for the day. I don't think I was asking for much to have a calm post midair debrief and a sorry and even or can I help you with your plane, I probably would have said I was sorry back but other parties that were involved led to any words being spoken being heated. If we could go back in time, first I would have listed to my gut and stood done and flown another day. But most importantly I would not have approached the other pilots directly after picking up the pieces. I would wait 10-15 minutes for everyone adrenaline to calm down. Some people in the area had been drinking and I feel this was like poring gas on the fire and made a unfortunate even worse than it was.
Old 06-06-2015, 07:09 AM
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At the time of the cash I am guessing there was probably 8 to 10 or more planes my spotter was trying to guide my by. I feel it safe to say that my spotter is one if not the best in the hobby, talking to me about where other pilots are and what they are doing, none stop. Long story short there was too much activity going on for one spotter to keep up with. Earlier in the day I heard RC Jet hit another aircraft and watched the pieces hit the ground and start a fire, there is soo many aircraft flying at Nall no longer do you see the expert builders bring there planes to fly, instead they bring ARFs or foamies and that is why I was flying a foamie. However it was a custom painted to represent the Mustang flown by Lt Col William T Halton from the 352FG, so it wasn't like I was flying a plane that came straight out of China.
Old 06-06-2015, 07:10 AM
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Regarding the question on how high my plane was, I would say 25-30 feet.
Old 06-06-2015, 07:16 AM
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Also I was not involved in the first incident that led to Fred losing his plane, I did however, see it hit the ground but did not know that he had words with Quique or David until well after my plane was lost. It's been fun, hope everyone learned something, I am going to work on one of my gasers and hope to find my motivation to return to the flying field.
Old 06-06-2015, 07:32 AM
  #91  
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1. Sounds like you used bad judgement by deciding to fly a warbird in a circle pattern when there were "several drones in the air" and the two 3d planes hovering over the runway (this is a BAD mix of aircraft and you knew that before you entered the fray).

2. Did you say several flight lines with overlapping patterns? I have never been to Nall, but I thought you were flying at the electric line that I assume is just a runway with several flight stations? (no different than any other "normal" flightline?). Pilots not standing in pilot stations doesn't really cause mid-airs.

3. You also said, "I did take action to miss them several time", I say you should have just landed at that point as you were obviously uncomfortable with the "perfect storm" of activity. If you would have landed at the point of YOUR discomfort, you MAY have had an opportunity to discuss the situation with the other pilots involved(AFTER they finished their flight) and avoided a mid-air as well as potentially finding a peaceful and amicable resolution to the flying situation for the remainder of the event.

My belief on mid-airs is that they are completely no-fault, there is absolutely no way to blame one pilot or the other.

Astro
Old 06-06-2015, 07:52 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by balsadust74
All six flight stations were in use, there were several drones in the air and micro planes being flown in the pits. It was just before dark and it was a free for all at the time. It was just a prefect storm of activity and I knew better than to get into the mix but wanted to get one last flight in for the day.

Good Grief buddy , really ? Really really ? I don't mean to break your stones here , really I don't , , , , But Good God man you chose to put not only one , but FIVE models in the air during what even you describe as , "a free for all" , , , and are surprised one model out of each flight didn't survive !? !? Please read back what you wrote , pretend it was someone else who wrote it , and can you really now so easily lay blame 100% on either party ? Sure , they hovered ...... Sure , you knowingly flew amid unsafe conditions (no provisions for "free for alls" in the AMA safety code that I've ever seen) ..... How could you possibly lay 100% blame when by the very act of flying amid such chaos , you were contributing to it ?

My request for Condor's apology to QQ and Dribbe stands .....

Last edited by init4fun; 06-06-2015 at 08:02 AM. Reason: edited for typos
Old 06-06-2015, 08:05 AM
  #93  
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Wow, did you even ready what I wrote, I never took part in the first flight of 5 planes, I was flying sole lo at the time with a spotter. I woulld have like to land early but the run way was obstructed. I have never said that the other guys deserve 100 percent of the blame

Last edited by balsadust74; 06-06-2015 at 08:14 AM.
Old 06-06-2015, 08:13 AM
  #94  
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I even said had the post crash conversation been cordial that I would have said I was sorry. Regarding pilots not being a flight stations I was trying to paint a picture that there was a lot of planes in the air, it was't possible for anyone to account for all aircraft and there was hardly anyway to communicate with everyone. Yes I should not have flown. It was unsafe to land given where the planes where hovering. I saw a dozen or more midairs, when there are that many I don't see how you can say I was solely to blame. Again I feel that people are confusing the facts of Fred's crash with mine and some of the facts that he stated about my crash are incorrect.

Last edited by balsadust74; 06-06-2015 at 08:34 AM.
Old 06-06-2015, 08:20 AM
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init4fun
please go back and reread this entire post and you will see, I had no part of the first flight of 5 planes, I never flew formation with anyone all weekend. Nor have I made any demands of anyone or placed 100 percent blame on anyone. I is clear you made up your mind from Condors post and painted me with the same brush. The only thing the two flights had in common were the pilots that were hovering and the fact that both flights resulted in a midair. I didn't even speak with Condor at Nall this year let alone fly at the same time as him or have prior knowledge of the ill words between the parties involved in the first crash. I have however flown with him a couple of times at other events.

Last edited by balsadust74; 06-06-2015 at 08:34 AM.
Old 06-06-2015, 08:24 AM
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I do agree with Astro that had I did what he said the hole thing could have been avoided. However there was a line just of 3D flying why weren't they flying from that line. Would it be right for me to go to the 3D line and fly my warbird? I don't think so. Why should everyone else stop flying just so QueQu and David can fly?
Old 06-06-2015, 08:31 AM
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This hole think has been beat to death, QueQui and David are working with Fred, I am not sure if they are working with me and I am not worried about it anymore. I have learned my lessons and have tried to provide as balanced view to my crash as possible. I wish QueQui and David the best with there flying and business and hope none of you loss a plane in a midair. Until you have flown at Nall please give both side of this or any other incident the benefit of the doubt.
Old 06-06-2015, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by balsadust74
init4fun
please go back and reread this entire post and you will see, I had no part of the first flight of 5 planes, I never flew formation with anyone all weekend. Nor have I made any demands of anyone or placed 100 percent blame on anyone. I is clear you made up your mind from Condors post and painted me with the same brush. The only thing the two flights had in common were the pilots that were hovering and the fact that both flights resulted in a midair. I didn't even speak with Condor at Nall let alone fly at the same time as him or have prior knowledge of the ill words between the parties involved in the first crash.

Got it now , Thank You .

It was my misunderstanding , thinking you were part of the later of the two flights of 5 , and you have my apology for misunderstanding the circumstances of your incident .

See how easy that was , I was wrong , said sorry , and moving on ....

So you did end up in a midair ? I wonder how many midairs there were ? I can all too well understand the "want to get one last flight in" thing , it cost me a plane or two in the past l'll freely admit . I'm just curious , how long was this disorganized gaggle of mixed aircraft allowed to congregate and get in each other's way ? If it went on much beyond the CD noticing I'd say they need serious review of flight line conditions for all times of day , not just during scheduled flights .

Honestly and truly , Thank God no one was hit by one of those crippled models . Balsa , foam , electronics , they're all cheap compared to repairs on humans .....
Old 06-06-2015, 08:45 AM
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Joe Nall is a awesome event that everyone should go to at lest once in there life, in 2014 there was around 6,000 registered pilots. Even before my midair I feel that it has lost some of it's magic because the scale builders don't attend in numbers anymore, but it is still a must see event. I won't be flying in the future at Nall unless I am part of an organized demo where the Joe Nall staff has closed the flight line to other aircraft and since I am not a sponsored pilot of fly for any company I don't see that happening. But I will attend an enjoy the event for what it is and encourage everyone else to go it is true simulation over load.
Old 06-06-2015, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun
Got it now , Thank You .

It was my misunderstanding , thinking you were part of the later of the two flights of 5 , and you have my apology for misunderstanding the circumstances of your incident .

See how easy that was , I was wrong , said sorry , and moving on ....

So you did end up in a midair ? I wonder how many midairs there were ? I can all too well understand the "want to get one last flight in" thing , it cost me a plane or two in the past l'll freely admit . I'm just curious , how long was this disorganized gaggle of mixed aircraft allowed to congregate and get in each other's way ? If it went on much beyond the CD noticing I'd say they need serious review of flight line conditions for all times of day , not just during scheduled flights .

Honestly and truly , Thank God no one was hit by one of those crippled models . Balsa , foam , electronics , they're all cheap compared to repairs on humans .....
init4fun

Thank you for your kind words. On the main flight line I feel there is more control, this is where your scale gas or glow planes fly and most of the jets. I did not fly from that line this year but noticed that they had some type of communication flags for each spotter to use to communicate with other flight lines. One of the clubs I was a member of uses two way raidos at each flight station with a clubs spotter in addition to the pilots spotter. I never saw a line boss or staff member on the electric line this year and seldom if ever in other years. That being said, in fairness to the Nall staff flying after 5pm is like swimming at a pool with no life guard it is basically a fun fly with no organization. Fly at your one risk which I chose to do. In the two days I was at Nall I saw at lest a dozen midairs and know of several others. With 8 flight lines and 5 other days I hate to guess of the number of midairs. I would like to know more about the communication that they used on the main line and hear how well it worked. I know of a Jet that was lost in a midair with a post crash fire. I use to volunteer at full size airshows and learned how they try to prevent the energy of the aircraft from going toward the crow and use that knowledge when flying my model because like you said thank god no one was hurt and no property damage other than the planes involved. To answer your question about mixed gaggle of aircraft it went on from 5pm until well after dark with the night fliers. Suprizingly enough I don't know of any mid airs during the night flying.

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