zxcv11

I have been doing some research lately about traditional club learning vs. self-taught beginners.(In light of the elec. back yard flier trends blowing up as they are.) Here's an interesting thought. Wouldn't one think that a younger generation, brought up on video games in ever complicated schemes, would be in a position to pick up RC flight much easier than those who were a generation behind them. Many grade school children now posses better hand-eye coordination without a thought than a lot of adults without training.
Are there any instructors who have been around for a while, or even RC vets who could comment about this for me?? I think this is a very interesting idea which could also be why many are seeing younger and younger children actually able to fly.(I recently read a post about a mans 6 year old flying!!) And thoughts are welcome.

Brian

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

i'll offer myself as an example for ya.
i'm young (30) and i've allways sucked at video games, that hellfire thingy here on rcu has me totally baffled and rc sims also have me defeated. when i used to go out with friends they'd all play those video games and i'd be on a pinball machine or playing air-hockey.
i've been flying c/l since age 5 and r/c since age 14 and my only "instructor" was my dad who did the driving and hand launching. my very first r/c flight was a success even with the deadstick landing.
i'm a very good bmx rider on a halfpipe, not matt hoffman, but good. this takes major coordination.
in my army service i was an anti-aircraft gunner in an m-163 vulcan, where you basically follow a plane in the gunsite using a joystick. while shooting live rounds at a drone i was excellent but i allways had a low score on the simulator. same with the stinger, i could allways score a "hit" when following a real plane but allways messed up with the sim.

i think that my problem with video games and simulators is the lack of feedback you get in the real world. something about seeing images on a screen just doesn't do it for me.

dave

SaviCatses

I'm from the 'Nintendo Generation'. Played plenty of nintendo when I was a kid, and then 'graduated' to a computer with the complicated setups (how about using a joystick, mouse, and keyboard to control a computer game - all at the same time! )

I learned to fly very quickly, I was landing on my third flight, and now I'm just starting my third gallon of fuel and doing combination eights in the sky. I'm not ready for Imac yet, but I attribute my quick learning to all the training I got playing video games.

*Crash*Johnson*

My Feedback: (7)

I definately agree video games give the younger generations an added advantage. Simple hand eye coordination that is developed during years of video games paid off I guess

And my mom always told me they were no good.... Show'ed her I did

zxcv11

Thanx for the replys so far guys Keep 'em coming.
Dave, sounds like you were pretty coordinated naturaly. I'm sure learning flight from a younger age also helped a lot!! My cousin was an AA gunner in the USNavy....shot those super auto chain-guns. We'd go out on the ship during family weeks when they'd tow a junkr behind a jet and he'd blow that thing to sh**!!!! I hear you about the actual feedback thing.
Savi and Crash....I agree. At the very least it couldn't have hurt!! And I don't think Sims are hurting either. There, we have both a combination of the video-gen., plus now the ability to actually program in real world factors such as wind, use real world existing models, ect. This at least gives a 'bit' of that feedback missing from the true experience and greatly enhances the learning curve. It would be worthy to note that many gamers had some experience with Sims way before they even thought of RC flying. I know I was fling the Longbow sim with FULL real-flight control and characteristics way before any serious RC thoughts
I wonder if this will help some day when I get my 1st heli....(someday$$$....lol).

Thanx again.[sm=cool.gif]

Brian

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

I believe the hand/eye coordination thing is more a matter of youth than giving credit to Nintendo. It's of course possible that it could contribute but I don't think it's the complete answer or that it contributes a great deal. Our youngest club member (14) is a natural RC pilot without sims or computer games. the same as trying to get to Carnegie Hall, it's practice, practice, practice.

BankYank

My Feedback: (63)

Well im 40 and glad i made it this far. Hand eye coordination and knowing how to move the sticks is the key i think. If a person has good coordination AND understands how the plane moves with stick movement or non movement its not hard to fly at all.
I tought myself to fly last september and never had a crash till about 4 months ago showing off thinking i was all big and bad. Was quit humbling actually

wings

A-man brother! There are few in this forum that think one can do anything without an instructor if they havn't done it before. I know it is smart to get help, but these people think that if you don't join a club, you are destined to fail!

Glad to see there are others out there that don't depend on an instructor to wipe...well, you now what I mean, lol.


And I agree that video games have to help. I can't say as they helped me that much, they may have, I play video games now and then, but I'm not a junky. I played them a lot when was younger. By the way, I am 26 to give you an idea of the erra I grew up in.

My cousin on the other hand IS a video game junky. He picked up my uncles electric plane and flew it no problem the very first time. He contributes it to video games. Who knows, but I think it does definetely help.


Wings,

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

One thing the Nintendo generation tends to forget is that when you smash your airplane to splinters, there's no "RESET" button.

Use an instructor!

hookedonrc

If you don't think that learning young helps with hand and eye coordination go skiing sometime. I started in the sport in 1967 and still get a little in when I can. I am pretty good, but I marvel at the kids that are skiing well before they even hit 10 years old. This is a sport that is not easy and needs some instruction from someone to do it right. If you don't get it, you WILL crash and burn. Hmmm...sounds familiar. Yes there are plenty of people that learn without instruction, I have to watch out for them every time I go.

greenboot

My Feedback: (1)

I have taught both RC and full scale to the old and young. There are of course lots of factors that effect learning rate, but generally the younger ones are more open minded and pick it up quicker. I think the game machines might help a little bit, especially the realistic flight simulators.

I am also a firm believer in natural talent. Just about anyone can learn to fly and with practice can become pretty good. But certain people are born with the right mix of senses and brain cells, giving them the ability to become the best.

To

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I started when I was 10, picked it up really quickly and was doing everything I wanted in no time. Hand eye coordination was amazing. Didn't have to think about maneuvers and just did them.

Now I am 37, have to think about the difficult maneuvers, not as steady as I used to be and still throw anything I fly through the wringer.

The younger you are, the better you are. Sometimes the games help, sometimes they don't. It depends on the kid.

All in all, get an instructor, you will have a good environment to learn in and crash less. Don't get one, you will get frusterated and quit 9 times out of 10.

nascarjoe

I believe it's more the competance of the instructor much more so than that of the student. As they say, gargage in - garbage out, meaning that it will take a bad student less time to learn with a good instructor than a good student with a bad instructor.

I've seen beginners of all ages not seem to learn much, if anything with an instructor who means well, but really doesn't have a clue on how to teach, then go to another instructor who never seems to have anyone with what is known as bad "hand-eye coordination". In fact, this instructor with his arms folded, as a training drill, has all of his students look down at the transmitter while the plane is in the air (no buddy-box) - and all newbies actually fly the plane better without looking at the plane. He did this with me, let me tell you, it is an interesting experience, to say the least.

Trainers are designed to fly by themselves, therefore, it doesn't take much stick movement to make a circuit around the field. This is why trainers which self-correct are for the most part not as beginner friendly as the type of planes that maintain a constant bank angle. I've seen this instructor teach a sight impaired person fly quite well. Obviously, this sight impaired person couldn't fly totally on his own.

nascarjoe

smokingcrater

nintendo generation, and completely self taught. Started with an avistar, was bored after a couple of weeks, moved on to a couple of sig SE's and now a U can do... I have never dumb thumbed a model into the ground, all crashes are due to mechanical failures of some sort. I'm also avid FPS gamer and computer programmer, but also race mountain bikes, someone else mentioned biking helping...

anyway, what I think helped me more is that I've always had some sort of rc model around since age 5. control reversal isn't something that ever crossed my mind, orientation is automatic.

wings

Personally, I think control reversal is 90% of the battle. I self taught my self with the Aerobird. It wasn't pretty at first. Once I got used to control reversal it was easy.

I have a glow trainer now. Just started flying it 3 weeks ago. Ever once in a while, specially on taking off I noticed my "instinctive" control reversal needs some sharpening.

All and all, I do believe control reverson is the toughest part. Just my opinion. Even now with my glow plane I am not that comfortable doing any manuevers unless the plane is going away from me.

Wings.

Azcat59

I taught students on and off for six or seven years, then I taught a bunch of my guys pattern flying for another five or six years. Good eyesight may be at the top of the list. Hand-eye coordination is important. Quick reflexes are somewhat important. A general idea of flight, and what the airplane is about to do (or about NOT to do) is important. But one thing stands out in my opinion....a guy that had some natural athletic ability became a smoother pilot than the guy that was not too coordinated, and would always fly somewhat "mechanical".

I won trophies in pattern, but I crashed the only simulator I ever played with....you just don't get the same feedback from the screen that you do in actual flight. Just my opinion fellows....

Clair

zxcv11

Wow guys....this thread blew up about a month after my original post. Go figure!!
Thanks all for the input!!!!! (and for not turing this into a bash-o-fest!!!!!!!!)

To those who say, rather bluntly, 'Get a Trainer...period".
In some cases I agree, in some I don't. I do believe, at this point, that it is good for the hobby/sport. Plus, considering the unknown 'ability' of some to actually accomplish safe flight, I agree that this should probably be the hard line coming out to NewBs from those in the 'know'. But in individual circumstances with parkies, verbal guidance, study, and some great forums, I believe that self-taught flight is quite ok!! I know I've done alright, but truely would have been lost if not for my studies, some very helpful individuals, and some quick ingrained hand-eye!!
Well, aside from that....If you go back and read again, I think you'll find that this question was not really the intent of this thread. I have already made up my mind on this matter. The actual question of this thread was if you thought that video games, prevelent as they are now, were a contributing factor for young peoples success in model aviation. (hand-eye coordination and all)

I agree that young people just naturally pick up on things faster than do adults. Somebody used an analogy to skiing. I pretty much taught myself to ski at a young age (1 lesson...learned to snow plow...hah!!)....and have been enjoying the activity for about 20 years now. I think at that age, being able to fall down at high speed and bounce right back up had something to do with that!! hehe. The point is, even with the lesson, I still crashed and burnt. And I think that many new fliers will do the same...instructor or not. I personally didn't till at least my 4th flight.....and it didn't burn.....really. I even know of some long-time fliers who still crash [X(]

I have been looking at a lot more in the past month, and also have to agree that a firm understanding of flight principals, and a firm grasp of what control surface input is actually 'doing' to the plane is at least as important as hand-eye.

There are many other activities which also increase hand-eye, of course. Maybe I was just in that 'what if ' mood when I first wrote this thread. Control reversal guys....good thought......I know of lots who have overcome with a sim. I just drove cars/flew.

Either way......thanks much to all for the input and opinions.

[8D]
Brian