FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Air Raptor: my thoughts exactly. I have been involved with another thread about this exact same issue. As I told some posters on that thread, I will make a phone call Monday Morning to the AMA, and discuss with more than just one person there, I won't except that. I want somebody to give me information, on what to do, who to talk too, and when. I expect right now, but that may not be possible.
I will forever hound them and anybody in the AMA to get some honest answers, and put in print, not hearsay.
We have to give them a fight, give them suggestions, let them know we are concerned modelers in this hobby, and do not want it destroyed by a few irresponsible flyers, to Protect this hobby from the Idiots that fly with no respect or idea on what they are doing.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

This from the CBS evening news about Home Land Security
warning about Drones being used by Terrorists and others here in the USA.
U have to put up with the commercials. Sorry.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeland...ed-in-attacks/

Super_Chief

Mandate 72mhz radios on these and lets see some target practice of our own but now do it with radio trans instead of bullets.

warningshot

He did not say that AMA put up a bounty. Go back and READ what he said.

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

do not renewthis coming year let the ama see that we want them to do something to the drones and california put up a 25000.00 to find out where the drones are

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Yup, you might have read that wrong. It was someone else who suggested the AMA should do that. I mentioned the fact that this would no doubt cause a certain amount of AMA members to complain, but as you can see in this and other threads, no matter what happens, someone will be displeased with them. Spent to much, to little, did to much, didn't do enough...etc etc.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Are you under some assumption that the FAA or the AMA can reduce drone incidents? Do they waive a magic wand at some point and make all the bad things stop happening? What exactly is YOUR plan to reduce drone incidents. Are you able to be specific, and put forth a realistic and actionable plan (not some science fiction shoot a mega ray at the quads and knock them out of the sky). If the FAA and AMA are so ineffective in this battle...who exactly do you think should be taking up this fight?

franklin_m

It's too late for AMA to do anything. They lost when they embraced drones as a way to increase membership and compounded that error by injecting themselves in the role of CBO also in the hopes of "forcing" membership. Now Amazon has a well thought out proposal that all but confines hobby fliers to less than 200' or in predefined low risk areas (read rural). If they get even part of that, we're looking at a major move toward park fliers and then no real reason to join AMA at all. I haven't flown at a club field in two seasons, no need to. Why pay $75 for AMA, another $100 for a club, drive 15 miles one way, when I can just take the heli's I'd already fly and walk 100 yards to a park near my home? If I want to fly fixed wing, I just choose a slightly smaller plane (say 25 size electric), and I can walk a whopping 200 yards and fly. The cost / benefit for AMA existence just isn't there unless they can demonstrate an ability to provide tangible wins. I'm not seeing it.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Pay a little more attention....great advice indeed. As you tried to find a way to zing me about being a quad owner, you might have skipped over this rather salient point I made:

"I've said it before, I don't really care for them nor fly them, but I absolutely believe they have a place in the hobby, and will continue to" Got your attention now?

I find it odd to have to qualify a discussion about my ownership, or lack thereof of these things, but some people don't really have a talk about the issues, rather they want to generalize or give sweeping statements about something, and they if they aren't accepted automatically, the response is usually...well you own one, or fly one, or like them etc etc. Wrong. I could make the same assumption about the anti quad folks too, that they are set in their ways folks who only accept scratch built nitro scale and warbird planes that MUST fly in a pattern, none of that 3D crap here kinda peeps...but guess what, I don't. Partly because I don't believe it, because I know exactly that type of people who actually love the quads, and who own and fly them responsibly. To each their own, different strokes for different folks.

I believe time marches on, and the hobby has to...MUST actually adopt to these changes as best as they can. It doesn't really matter what I think about it though, it's hear, and it's going forward whether the AMA was a participant in this or not. The solution after the fact seems to be to BAN them, or have the AMA refuse to be involved. Thankfully, that didn't happen.

You said:

"...I guess it's necessary to point out that conventional model aircraft planes and Helis are fiown visually, not FPV....."

Might wanna rethink that one a bit. Which do you think came first...FPV flight, or quads? Here's the rub on that;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTVYWbZw4nA

Check that FPV footage out from the fixed wing RC aircraft at 10,000 feet.

Another foamy fixed wing plane at 3019 meters......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vN5fc2iceo

Want to guess what kind of conventional fixed wing aircraft was up at 82,500 feet? Ya...it wasn't a quad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emN3pxqkl68

Granted, this one was lifted by balloon, then dropped.

As to the AMA, you might have missed the position they took on this issue already, multiple times. Here's just one part of their position:



As for the legally blind person, not sure why the club would be looking to a district VP or the AMA to solve that problem, he was a member of the CLUB. I would hope that members tried to help him out as best they could (coaching, buddy box flying etc). If he was violating club rules, it's the clubs job to deal with that. I can only presume the club had applicable rules about that in their bylaws.

I think we both agree though that people who fly recklessly, who cause injury or damages should be held legally and hopefully criminally responsible for their actions. Big fines and maybe prison time too depending on the circumstances. BUT...even that won't stop every people who is intent on flying their quads the way they want. At that point, it's the our fault, the AMAs fault, the FAA's fault, or the laws fault...it will always come back to the pilot!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

So you didn't have, nor do you have, any suggested plans for the AMA to reduce drone incidents. None for the FAA either. Just more complaints about what they have done in the past, and continue to do (and not well either). And more ominous warnings about Amazon, but at least we're skipping the "it's only a matter of time before a plane is brought down by these quads" scenarios.

You are fortunate to have a place to fly without needing a club or the AMA. I know plenty of people around here that don't have a membership in either one, and still enjoy the hobby, and safely too. Bully for them!

Duncman

Yep!

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

No its not too late.I would rather we go down together than sit idlely by while a numb er of reckless individuals operate with no regard to public safety

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

Porcia,
I have made myself clear, like it or not! The facts are that someone has caused a "Drone" incident that is nationally boadcast all to often and due to the ease these things be purchased, it just takes one person wanting to cause problems.
If it's aTerror related situation or otherwise and the" Lid" will come down, perhaps on all RC?
There is great potential for these machines to be armed and used remotely........I choose not to state how to do it but use your imagination. Ever hear the expression "Lone Wolf"?
I agree that most of those owning Quads are likley to be responsible folks who want to do no harm, but those who do otherwise should delt with quickley by the authoritys, backed by AMA.

Maybe some one would like to have a poll, Is AMA approching this inthe proper manner, etc..?

Duncman

Gizmo, I'm not so sure what AMA's approach should be, one thing is certain, a poll would generate as many ideas as members this forum has and all would have some level of viability. I do know that my State is actively going after illegal drone use with bounties and additional regulations and that it will take a grass roots approach to police this activity, I certainly intend on doing my part. BTW: there is a YouTube video out there of guy that mounted say a 38 pistol on a drone and it fires, not a good platform yet, key word is "yet", so this guy in Kentucky that shotgunned that hovering drone, as illegal as that is in city limits and as dangerous as that obviously is, he is my hero. I know the local authorities will ding him hard as an example but if some bozo hovered over my 16 year old sunbathing daughters oogling them, I'd waste no time blasting his peeping tom ass right out of the sky and then pay the fine, do the time, and see how far the local rednecks would let guy live if he tried to sue me for his shattered quad copter. The law will only prosecute decent citizens only so much before they will act on the issue.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Just require a federal license to purchase,own or operate a Quad Copter any where in the USA.This could be as simple as filling out a computer test that U understand the Where and when U are allowed to operate a Quad copter. I know nobody wants the Feds to create any more bureaucracy, but do we want to suffer the consequences of the feds just baning every thing? This may not stop every on but at least they will know they are in the wrong and can be prosecuted.

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

A GOOD DEFENSE IS AN ACTIVE OFFENSE! Playing "Catch-uo" usually puts you at a huge disavantage.

Duncman

Probably wouldn't be a bad thing, might help and at least they wouldn't be able to plead ignorance, which is no excuse anyway.

Duncman

Sometimes that is all you got.

fix-n-fly

My Feedback: (1)

The scenario you mentioned has already happened - multi rotor flying over someone's yard and the person took out the multi rotor. It went to court and the person who took out the multi rotor had to pay for it.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Exactly...there is NOTHING the AMA nor the FAA can do to stop people flying stupidly. The only suggestion I've heard from people here and in other threads is that the AMA should have somehow excluded multi-rotors from the hobby. Unrealistic, and doesn't in any way address the issue here. I haven't seen the .38 video, but I did see this one...made right here in CT.

http://www.wfsb.com/story/29575151/g...produced-in-ct

Ignorance of the law isn't an affirmative defense when accused of breaking the law. More licenses just means bigger govt, and more expenses, and again won't stop the bad guys. Strict adherence to the law, and penalties being applied will hopefully be a deterrent.
Thanks for the clarity, but my liking it or not isn't relevant. I'm not trying to get you to like what I'm saying, just presenting another side of the coin. I just wondered since you complained about the AMA's involvement here what your plan would have been, or is now, for them to deal with this issue. I asked, but you won't give an answer. That's all well and good, others have complained as well and provided no thoughts on what they would have done, or would do, and so that's how it goes.

See the video above as a direct reference to arming the quads...scary isn't it? And when one looks into the way that was made, and the owner...it's a page turner. Keep in mind though....that same thing could easily be done by a traditional fixed wing aircraft, like the one in the video I linked to that was flying at 10,000 feet.

As noted above, if they break a law, they don't get to plead ignorance. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George has "relations" with the cleaning lady on the desk, and is later fired for it. In his defense he says, was that wrong? Should I have not done that? If someone had told me that was wrong, I wouldn't have done it. You're fired!

Arrest these outlaws, fine them, let them try to fight the charges and pay even more to defend themselves, and then run the risk of jail time. And the media should follow up and let everyone know how the case resolves.

Duncman

Could very easily be done with fixed wing, be a lot more difficult and easier to get caught. fixed wing been around way longer than drones and other than military and nefarious activities it hasn't happened yet. Whatever anyone proposes as far as regulation/punishment, it is still upon the general public to protect themselves, not by intervening, but educate those that are responsive, snitch whenever you have the opportunity, like you would do with a drunk driver, gather whatever information you safely can do and turn it all in to the authorities.

I got into a somewhat heated discussion on Facebook with a Realtor that use's a drone to video neighborhoods that he has listings in to show his clients not only the listing but the surrounding properties. He was most upset that folks wanted to limit drone use anyway possible, he thought it was an infringement on his right to make a living and besides he always got the HOA's permission. it was all very easy for him, easy to fly, GPS coordinates, gimbaled camera and so on, still he had no idea of the danger he was putting people and property in, privacy infringement, even his own potential for liability if something went amiss. Bottom line is, I gave him a pretty good behooving, pointed all those issues out to him and then some. Would like to think that my words had an impact on him but he is a young, aggressive Realtor and the simple fact is, he is likely still droning around houses taking pictures, heck, he could even be the guy shotgunned last week for all I know. At least I tried.

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Porcia: The case is still in court as far as I know. Take a look on what happened,http://abc7news.com/news/firefightin...drones/861533/


http://abc7news.com/news/firefightin...drones/861533/


Drones are Legal??? Not when the results end up like this.
The AMA had better do something, and real quick to resolve this continueing problem as it is happening almost every day.
Another quiet suggestion, when you put quotes in, please refer to whom you are addressing, would be helpful

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

Fixed wing or helis flown visually usually arn't a big threat, it's the "send it out and return remotely" thing that seem to be causing the problems. Couple that with an operator who hasn't a clue...................

We have several club members with quads, they know the score, have a good time and fly like the rest of us. I have nothing against responsible users but they are grown men who are very mindful of others. It's the other element

that causes concern. We need to clearly distance ourselves from outlaws and I think thats AMA's job!

Super_Chief

Lobby for an import tax put in to a fund that would pay for the expense of figuring this problem out. Any politician would jump at the chance to spend it.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Flap,
What law are you referring to that you think I referenced? I went back through my comments and I don't see any. I did reference ignorance of "the law", as in the law in general, and ignorance of any law is not a valid defense when caught breaking that law. A person can't say, well I didn't know that I couldn't walk into my back yard and fire guns off, it's my yard and my property, and I have rights! If there is a law on the books that forbid something, that's it.

Yes, drones are legal, and in all likelihood will continue to be legal.

I'll ask you the same things I've asked others who put this problem at the feet of the AMA. FIrst...have you missed the fact that they HAVE in fact done something, a lot actually. So much so that people are whining constantly about what they have done, and the money they spent doing it. Did you see the " Know before you fly" flier. Do you realize the AMA was instrumental in the creation of that?

More importantly..what exactly is it YOU think the AMA should be doing on this, and quickly, in order to resolve this problem. Be specific if you can. How can this modeling association that represents us solve this problem. I see sooo many people argue about what they haven't done, but provide no real plan themselves. They complain about what they have done, and how it hasn't worked, but fail to say exactly what it is that they would have done, or suggest the AMA do?

Once a solution is suggested, can you put in place a metric, or a mechanism by which we and anyone else can measure success?

I haven't seen one realistic or actionable solution yet.

Also...as to quoting someone...I did just that in the comments you quoted. There comments are quoted and put into a box, and then my comments are immediately following that, and are responsive to those comments, or at least try to be.