topspin

This has got to be the most dishonest thing I have seen in ages. Hobby King was conducting a lottery with prizes to be awarded, of course it cost money to enter. Well long story short, some poor guy was contacted by them and was told he had won a $1,400.00 Futaba transmitter and that he was a "Verified Winner". Then they turned right around and refused to award him the prize. That is without a doubt the most disgusting act of penny pinching cheap screw behavior on the part of any company that I have ever seen.

They posted some rules for their drawing which basically says we will take your money but don't have to give you anything if we don't want to.

Here are the rules:

1.Free Shipping is offered to prize winners, sent to the address used in their account settings. An entrant must ensure their address details are up to date in their HobbyKing account at time of entry. Re-sent shipments due to incorrect addresses will be charged to the customer.
2.If the number of entrants does not reach the threshold for the draw for a certain prize, Hobbyking reserve the right to cancel the draw, and all bonus points collected will be returned to all participants.
3.A customer's Hobby Lottery history can be viewed in their Hobbyking account under "Community / Media"
4.All prizes are covered by HobbyKing's regular warranty policies.
5.A limit is set for each draw as to how many tickets can be purchased per account. This will be clearly stated at the start of each draw. These limits will be set by Hobbyking and will not be changed after a draw has started.
6.All prizes will be dispatched to the winner within 5 days of announcement.
7.HobbyKing reserve the right to modify or terminate the Hobby Lottery promotion for any reason, without notice, at any time. All entrants of cancelled draws will have their entry fee refunded to their account.

Take note of rule #2. Since no one except Hobby King knows the specific number of entrants they can just say that not enough people entered and you will never know if they are telling the truth or not.

Rule #7 is a real humdinger. It says we can tell you to bugger off any time we feel like it. So what is the point of even having this stupid lottery since they have no intention of awarding anything. They just get to keep peoples money for a while an then give it back in the form of bonus points so they will have to buy something. How disingenuous is that?

So they told this poor guy he was a verified winner and then pulled the rug out from under him instead of just ponying up the prize like any reputable firm would do. And there are people who still buy stuff from them? Unbelievable.

scale only 4 me

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And where did you get all this info?

porcia83

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An RCG rant thread...where else..... To bad the whole story wasn't told though......

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2471565

Standard rules for any lottery/sweepstake participation. Again, the rules clearly outlined what could happen, and they did. What did the OP lose as a result of this? Nothing...actually gained $23.00 dollars for doing basically nothing. Sort of reminds me of when some company ran a promotion, I think it was Go-Pro, and made a ridiculously low mistake in the listing price, and people of course jumped on the deal and told their friends etc. Eventually the revised the price, and right away the cries of "Scam" etc came up, and of course the requisite "I'm going to sue them" comments too. LoL..good luck with that. Oh, and in this new case, the OP "knows international law". Didn't like anyone disagreeing with him either, SOP for that kind of thread.

So back to this case...eventually the guy was offered $25.00 but that wasn't enough, he wanted $50.00 to he could buy a plane to replace the one that he had crashed. No good HK said, our offer is $25.00. Well that's not good enough. Previously he wasn't " the kind of person that likes time and money consuming lawsuits I am prepared to do a counter offer", but soon changed to this "...I would like to ask everyone who has had a run inn with Hobbyking in which they feel badly misstreated to send an email to me at [email protected] containing your story and if possible the emails that were sent between HK and you. With all these stories put together I and my lawyer will make a solid case against them to make em take their mistakes more seriously and solve them in a way that is appropriatly matched with our rights as a customer...". I guess they will spread the wealth with the proceeds of their action? This one stands out though as a doozy, and is reminiscent of the approach some choose to take with this company, and to what end;

"....That's exactly the reason why I will take em to war.....". Seriously, "war". Well, everyone's gotta have a cause I guess, and this will be his. I suspect like every other alleged lawsuit against them...it won't materialize. I'm sure he'll get some great e-mails though.

Of course it's weezly to back out of giving the guy his transmitter, even with the rules clearly published. If he was the only one who got the e-mail saying he won the thing, if it was me I would just give it to him. Not sure if that same e-mail went out to multiple people, but he's the only one complaining. I think he would have been ahead of the game just taking the $25 or so they offered him. If he really wants to do damage to them, he should stop using them all together. Like, forever. Ultimately that's what will make any company stop and revise practices, when their bottom line is affected. I'm convinced the rant threads only benefit two ultimate entities....HK, since people who don't know them will probably go to the site and look at their stuff, and RC sites that host these threads. They always shoot up the most clicked on lists (like this one will), and ultimately drive clicks and profits. Complaints or praises really aren't much news to the folks who have dealt with HK.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

Huum, yes much of the story is untold I guess, why not post all the back and forth emails?
How he went on and tried to extort a more valuable item from them is telling though. Like they're scared of a lawsuit,, please.

I'm sure the whole story will never be told,, but blind speculation will run rampant.

I'm out

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

The need to change the name of this site from RCU to "Lets Bash H/K".

init4fun

In all fairness to the point of the thread , I'd imagine if this were any other company , and the exact same thing transpired on both party's side , that the cries of "UNFAIR !" and "SCAM !" would likely be just as loud . If Horizon or Hobbico was involved in this exact same situation instead of HK , don't you think the complaint would sound pretty much the same ? I do .

PS , since HK offered $25 , I wonder if that's their cost on the TX ?

porcia83

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There are complaint threads about many RC companies out there, and other companies as well.

Doubt the transmitter cost $25.00 to HK or Tower, Amazon, AMain, or any other vendor that's selling it, everyone has it for the same price...."retail 3999.99, on "sale" for $2999.99, MAP pricing no doubt.

That's one expensive transmitter, jeez.

topspin

Really? Name on lottery that has the same set of rules, please, just name one..

What did the OP and everyone else lose? HK took their money, kept it for some period of time collecting interest on it and then gave it back in the form of store credit so the only thing they can do is either lose their money (store credit) or buy stuff which was not their intention. The entire thing is a scheme from the get go it is dishonest and disingenuous, no reputable business would tell someone they had won a prize and then decide to welch on the deal.

So please, tell us who else has a lottery with those rules?

porcia83

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Seriously, what a question. Name a different lottery that has the same exact rules as a Hobby King Lottery? Gee, I wonder...how about none? Here's a better question...Really, name a lottery or contest that doesn't have rules, regs, and conditions attached to it. So please, tell me! Go figure, every contest/lottery will have some type or rule or condition that must be adhered to or met in order to be claimed. This is completely standard operating procedure, and you know it. Rules/Reg/compliance issues are usually written by attorneys and will have an "out", just in case.

Guess who has this on their website:

A possibility exists that the server materials could include inaccuracies or errors. Additionally, a possibility exists that unauthorized additions, deletions, and alterations could be made by third parties to the server materials. Although ... tries to ensure the integrity and the accurateness of the server materials, it makes no guarantees about their correctness or accuracy. Before relying on any representation made in any of the server materials, check with the advertiser of the product or service to ensure that the information you are relying upon is correct.

So although they may be hosting material on their website, you can't be sure it's correct. See the "out' there?

What you might not know is that this person didn't send them his money that HK kept, due to a scheme to make interest on the money held, or force someone to buy something that they had no intention of buy (what? ). Do you understand how the bonus points that they used to enter the voluntary lottery were accrued? They were GIVEN to the people as BONUS points when they bought something. Did HK have to GIVE someone bonus points when they bought their stuff? NO. They do it as an incentive and BONUS for buying stuff, sort of like how some companies use FREE SHIPPING as a bonus when spending x amount of dollars on an item, like Horizon or Motion.

So in this case, the rules are clearly laid out, and the OP chose to accept them. The OP went in and used points he accrued as BONUS points to enter a Lottery. $2.00 in bonus points for a $3000 transmitter. He won, then didn't, then got his BONUS points back, plus 23 more. But the plan here was that HK was going to hold his $2.00 in BONUS points (money he never spent, and money HK didn't have to give him, and basically are treated as credits), so that they can earn how many days interest on $2.00 in store credits? Sorry....that makes absolutely no sense, the leap one has to make to get to that point is herculean in nature.

So...he spend $2.00 in Bonus points, and later received $25.00...and somehow HK profited from this? C'mon.

IMO, any lottery is a suckers bet, just like going to a casino. Sure, you may win...but 99% of the time, you don't. BUT...nobody forces anyone to play. At the end of the day, this guy for 23.00 for some annoyance and some e-mails.

The whole thing sounded poorly run though, it even ticked off the die hard HK fans in their own forum. If they weren't prepared to administer the lottery program effectively they shouldn't have run it, rules notwithstanding. Not the best marketing strategy I would guess, was this supposed to drive business there way, the people entering were already customers.

Of course...the fact that people did win, and did get their prizes (or in the case of a withdrawn contest, got their bonus points back) never made it to this story...or the OP in the original complaint there. Why some might ask...well simple, it doesn't fit the narrative here.

Duncman

Wow, lot's of stuff here. I ain't the brightest guy out there so forgive me for my simplicity, but........ If someone enters a promotion, fee or no fee, and is notified of winning a prize and then is denied that prize then a possible fraudulent action has taken place within the jurisdiction of the entrant and that individual should march himself and all his/her documentation down to his friendly local District Attorneys office and go "looky here, I done maybe been a victim of fraud". That is what we pay taxes for and DA offices like this stuff cause that is what they do. Anyway, they are best equipped to handle the legalize because that is also what they do and make a determination if a crime has been committed within their jurisdiction or not. Say they prosecute the case and get a conviction against the contest promotor in criminal court then the next step is for that individual to take that conviction to civil court and file a claim, though I doubt that it would go that far because by now, the promotor wants all this stuff to go away, so he has given the person his prize and maybe a little extra for goodwill. On the other hand the DA says there is no grounds for a criminal case, welp then I guess he can just post his displeasure here and we'll have fun bashing Hobby King. Lest anyone think this small potatoes for a DA's office, it would probably get handed to the low guy on the totem pole that is looking for a feather in his cap, so one might be surprised at the results. At least that is the way I would handle it.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

Well, Unless you had hard evidence of an "intentional" fraud, they'd tell you it's a civil matter,, which it is. Since there was no loss, there's nothing to gain. What are you going to argue?? pain and suffering over a $2600 prize? The thought that a lawsuit would ever be filed is laughable.

bogbeagle

No fraud. The guy suffered no loss of property ... in fact, he enjoyed a net gain.

He freely entered into a contract, with clearly-stated caveats.

A total "non-issue" as far as I can see.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Substantively you are correct, it's a non-issue. Sort of like the guy that started a hysterical post about HK hacking into his PP account and charging him for something he didn't want, only that never happened. He just didn't know how to navigate on a website and thought it was easier to scream FRAUD. That was a huge non-issue. When it comes to HK, any mistake or poor service etc is always "fraud". Missing from this allegation is a key element to fraud, unjust enrichment or unlawful gain. The guy ultimately got $23.00 given to him free of charge. The main issue for the guy in this case was hurt feelings, and frustration. Can't really disagree with him on that point, it would be annoying to have a prize dangled in front of you and then pulled back.

porcia83

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Aren't they an advertise on here? Don't know that they would like that.

porcia83

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If one party hasn't gained something improperly from the other party, ie property or financial gain, then in general there would be no fraud. In this case, there wasn't, the guy actually "netted" $23.00 at no cost. Doubtful any action civil or criminal would ever go forward here, but complicating this story is that the guy lives in the Netherlands, so who knows what the laws are there. Britain has some extremely tough rules on advertising, perhaps Netherlands has tougher ones on Lotteries. More power to the guy if he manages to get tons of people to write him their stories and he can do something with that. Of course they would be doing that to benefit his case, not theirs. Hey, wouldn't it be ironic if someone sent him their story, he used it to gain a reward for himself, and then was accused of fraud for not sharing the proceeds?

quietnas1

So the OP won, then HK said oops we made a mistake here are your points back. Then the OP starts pounding his chest and demanding the prize he is ENTITLED to. His words in the other forum not mines. Then HK offers him $25.00. Now the OP wants to go to court and focus all his energy on bashing HK. Honestly IMO no harm, or fraud was done. No one gained interest over $2.00 in bonus points either. Lose the entitlement mentality and move on. Life is to short to be going banana's over something so minuscule. I have never bought from then my self but the OP needs to move on and enjoy RCing. Well that's my .02¢.

Duncman

Legal definition of fraud: "A falserepresentation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleadingallegations, or by concealment of whatshouldhavebeendisclosed—thatdeceivesand is intended to deceiveanother so thattheindividualwillactupon it to her or hislegalinjury". Topspins opening comment indicated no redemption other than bonus points applied to a later purchase but HK sent a notification of award and there was some sort of entry fee associated with the contest. I do not know if fraud or loss actually occurred here or not, just what was posted tells me they feel that they had been treated in a fraudulent manner and that in and of itself may require a review by someone schooled and in authority on these matters to make that determination and to take or not take any further action.

Most of the time fraud and any associated loss is hard to impossible to prove but on those rare occasions when a company steps far enough out of line to make it obvious then IMHO legal steps should be pursued, not as a matter of entitlement, but to protect us as consumers and keep the HK's of the world honest.

topspin

All I know is that it was just incredibly cheesy to tell the guy he won, that he was a "Verified Winner" and then when they realized it was a really expensive prize they got all cheap Charlie on the guy and reneged on the deal.

I don't care what kind of rules or contract or whatever they had, only a cheap money grubbing trinket peddler would do such a dirty rotten thing and anyone who defends their action is either nuts, works for them in some capacity, or just trolling for lulz. Any other company would have awarded the prize, at least any of the ones I buy from would have.

If you want to buy stuff from them go ahead but you're supporting a very dishonest company with your money. There are far more reputable and honest companies out there.

on_your_six

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I don't care what you have to say against them... I have purchased many things from them and always got what I paid for. The HK batteries work just as good and the cost is much less.

jim billings

Topspin's next Hobby King bash is in production. Stay tuned for it's exciting details!

VF84sluggo

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+1

PLANE JIM

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+1

porcia83

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Yes, by all means, that was bound to show up eventually....anyone who disagrees or presents context or a contrary position is a troll, but more importantly works for them in some capacity. Almost like clockwork. When all else fails, go on the attack. Is it possible for you to ever have an HK thread where you don't accuse someone of being a troll or a shill?

PLANE JIM

My Feedback: (109)

[QUOTE=porcia83;12084408]Yes, by all means, that was bound to show up eventually....anyone who disagrees or presents context or a contrary position is a troll, but more importantly works for them in some capacity. Almost like clockwork. When all else fails, go on the attack. Is it possible for you to ever have an HK thread where you don't accuse someone of being a troll or a shill?[/QUOT

Porcia-why are you always working the other side-what ever some one states-you go the other way at length with long objections?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

[QUOTE=PLANE JIM;12084476]Plane Jim,

Why do you care, and what does this have to do with an HK thread? Is that a short enough response for you? Perhaps one of your HK SUCKS or +1 responses are more appropriate for me to respond with? Are you familiar with the ignore function here, you don't have to read any posts you don't want to or have to.

Appreciate the fact that you follow my posting, really. But do go back and double check your premise again, it's flawed, even in this thread. You might be aware that folks will have differing opinions on stuff right? Forgive me if I don't jump on a torch and pitchfork bandwagon. I share the same thoughts and opinions with many folks on many topics, and disagree on some. In fact in this very thread I think I've said I agree that it didn't appear HK was set up to run this "lottery" correctly, it was weezely for them to not give the guy his transmitter, and even that the guy, and others should just stop using HK all together. LOL...does that sound completely contrary to the theme of this (and soo many) HK threads?

Sorry if this was to long of a response...I did try to keep it short.