icemodel2009 beware
09-09-2015, 01:14 AM
#1
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Location: Mapleton, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
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icemodel2009 beware
icemodel2009 is an eBay seller of radio control parts. I bought 8 servos from them. The servos were TowerPro MG996R, and when they arrived that was what was on the label, as I had expected.
The servos failed to meet specification. All servos had 150uS of deadband, where the advertised specification is 5uS, thereby making them completely unusable for any purpose except decoration . On opening them it was found that they were fitted with plastic bushes instead of the dual ball bearings as expected.
After informing the vendor of my findings, the vendor stated that the servos were not TowerPro, but were TowedPro. Examining the photographs on the item listing page showed this to be the case, however the servos which were delivered were labelled TowerPro.
Analysing the circuit revealed that two component values were not even close to the values recommended by the manufacturer of the amplifier chip. Replacing these components with the correct value restored the deadband specification to under 5uS. Fitment of two ball bearings completed the fix.
The vendor has been recalcitrant and refuses to honor the return policy unless I return the items and trust he will refund the freight costs. After numerous communications with the vendor I am of the opinion that a refund of the freight is unlikely.
There is no question that the sale of this item constitutes a fraud. The items are designed to appear to be a product of known higher quality and their true identity is carefully camouflaged in the item listing. Furthermore, the items do not even meet the specification stated in the listing.
This vendor is clearly dishonest and it would be an error of judgement to conduct business with him. You have been warned.
The servos failed to meet specification. All servos had 150uS of deadband, where the advertised specification is 5uS, thereby making them completely unusable for any purpose except decoration . On opening them it was found that they were fitted with plastic bushes instead of the dual ball bearings as expected.
After informing the vendor of my findings, the vendor stated that the servos were not TowerPro, but were TowedPro. Examining the photographs on the item listing page showed this to be the case, however the servos which were delivered were labelled TowerPro.
Analysing the circuit revealed that two component values were not even close to the values recommended by the manufacturer of the amplifier chip. Replacing these components with the correct value restored the deadband specification to under 5uS. Fitment of two ball bearings completed the fix.
The vendor has been recalcitrant and refuses to honor the return policy unless I return the items and trust he will refund the freight costs. After numerous communications with the vendor I am of the opinion that a refund of the freight is unlikely.
There is no question that the sale of this item constitutes a fraud. The items are designed to appear to be a product of known higher quality and their true identity is carefully camouflaged in the item listing. Furthermore, the items do not even meet the specification stated in the listing.
This vendor is clearly dishonest and it would be an error of judgement to conduct business with him. You have been warned.
09-09-2015, 02:48 AM
#3
icemodel2009 is an eBay seller of radio control parts. I bought 8 servos from them. The servos were TowerPro MG996R, and when they arrived that was what was on the label, as I had expected.
The servos failed to meet specification. All servos had 150uS of deadband, where the advertised specification is 5uS, thereby making them completely unusable for any purpose except decoration . On opening them it was found that they were fitted with plastic bushes instead of the dual ball bearings as expected.
After informing the vendor of my findings, the vendor stated that the servos were not TowerPro, but were TowedPro. Examining the photographs on the item listing page showed this to be the case, however the servos which were delivered were labelled TowerPro.
Analysing the circuit revealed that two component values were not even close to the values recommended by the manufacturer of the amplifier chip. Replacing these components with the correct value restored the deadband specification to under 5uS. Fitment of two ball bearings completed the fix.
The vendor has been recalcitrant and refuses to honor the return policy unless I return the items and trust he will refund the freight costs. After numerous communications with the vendor I am of the opinion that a refund of the freight is unlikely.
There is no question that the sale of this item constitutes a fraud. The items are designed to appear to be a product of known higher quality and their true identity is carefully camouflaged in the item listing. Furthermore, the items do not even meet the specification stated in the listing.
This vendor is clearly dishonest and it would be an error of judgement to conduct business with him. You have been warned.
The servos failed to meet specification. All servos had 150uS of deadband, where the advertised specification is 5uS, thereby making them completely unusable for any purpose except decoration . On opening them it was found that they were fitted with plastic bushes instead of the dual ball bearings as expected.
After informing the vendor of my findings, the vendor stated that the servos were not TowerPro, but were TowedPro. Examining the photographs on the item listing page showed this to be the case, however the servos which were delivered were labelled TowerPro.
Analysing the circuit revealed that two component values were not even close to the values recommended by the manufacturer of the amplifier chip. Replacing these components with the correct value restored the deadband specification to under 5uS. Fitment of two ball bearings completed the fix.
The vendor has been recalcitrant and refuses to honor the return policy unless I return the items and trust he will refund the freight costs. After numerous communications with the vendor I am of the opinion that a refund of the freight is unlikely.
There is no question that the sale of this item constitutes a fraud. The items are designed to appear to be a product of known higher quality and their true identity is carefully camouflaged in the item listing. Furthermore, the items do not even meet the specification stated in the listing.
This vendor is clearly dishonest and it would be an error of judgement to conduct business with him. You have been warned.
good luck
if you bought with these pics?? just wow
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MG996R-1...item4167d7fa30
"towardpro" LOL I wouldn't buy anything from a vendor that blatantly sells knock offs, I bet he has some nice "Futabo" and "Spuktum" servos coming in soon.
as always,, Buyer Beware
Last edited by scale only 4 me; 09-09-2015 at 02:53 AM.
09-09-2015, 02:58 AM
#4
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Googled the name, the first hit was this seller:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller
They have a 99.4% positive feedback score, but people need to dig deeper to see what the trends are wtih big sellers like this:
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?Use...ed+by&ref=home
In the above noted example, the buyer probably got these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MG996R-1...item4167d7fa30
Nowhere in the ad is the term TOWERPRO listed. The seller does have other ads with TowerPro servos so that's where the confusion might come in. Regardless, the OP appears to have made the mistake thinking they were Towerpro. I don't know how/why they would arrive with Towerpro stickers on them, but if they did, I guess they did.
The seller likes to weave in the name of OEM products into his titles while selling aftermarket replacement parts. Many of the complaints are from people who didn't take the time to read the ads closely and thought they were getting a DJI motor, when the ad said replacement motor for DJI Phantom.
Regardless, if they didn't work, he can file a SNAD complaint and PP will find in his favor. Shipping back to the seller won't be expensive, and the buyer will get his money back as well.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller
They have a 99.4% positive feedback score, but people need to dig deeper to see what the trends are wtih big sellers like this:
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?Use...ed+by&ref=home
In the above noted example, the buyer probably got these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MG996R-1...item4167d7fa30
Nowhere in the ad is the term TOWERPRO listed. The seller does have other ads with TowerPro servos so that's where the confusion might come in. Regardless, the OP appears to have made the mistake thinking they were Towerpro. I don't know how/why they would arrive with Towerpro stickers on them, but if they did, I guess they did.
The seller likes to weave in the name of OEM products into his titles while selling aftermarket replacement parts. Many of the complaints are from people who didn't take the time to read the ads closely and thought they were getting a DJI motor, when the ad said replacement motor for DJI Phantom.
Regardless, if they didn't work, he can file a SNAD complaint and PP will find in his favor. Shipping back to the seller won't be expensive, and the buyer will get his money back as well.
09-09-2015, 04:30 AM
#5
Thank You Jfitter . I appreciate the reminder to read every word twice when buying on line , some dishonest sellers can get downright crafty with their descriptions of ;
REAL A123 type BATTERIES
or
FUTABA SERVOS servos for Futaba radios
that turn out to be no brand servos that have Futaba style connectors on them (the connector with that extra little piece of plastic) .
It is a sad state of affairs when you have to get to the point of proofreading every word , and looking for the "gotcha" hidden between the sentences , before buying hobby supplies on line these days . The big tipoff I find , other than the use of obscure definitions (ABC "type" engines , for ex , it's either Aluminum , brass , and Chrome , or it isn't ! ) is the price . As true today as it was at the dawn of retail , "if it's really that much cheaper than everyone else is selling it for , It's gotta be some kind of scam" .
09-09-2015, 08:57 AM
#6
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Years back Ebay clamped down on titles that said "like" or "style", as in Futaba like servos, or "like a DJI phantom", but sellers get crafty, and Ebay ends up having bigger fish to fry. This sellers feedback rating and DSR's are still high, and the servos in question never said Towerpro, so he's safe for now. Just based on the feedback alone I would avoid the seller.
09-09-2015, 11:23 AM
#8
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Sure, so does Amazon... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery right? What they don't allow is blatant counterfeits, which are sometimes realized and recognized after the purchase. In this case, there was nothing outwardly wrong about the ad since they didn't use the brand name "Tower Pro". The picture doesn't show Tower Pro either. I guess a question could remain about the use of the model # MG996R. Not sure if that's a proprietary set of letters/numbers for Tower Pro.
If this seller had a ad header noting "Tower Pro like servos"...he'd be dead in the water. Chances are their software would have caught that before it was even listed, or flagged for review later. Here is their policy in general:
Replicas, counterfeit items, and unauthorized copies policy
[TABLE="class: anchorTop"]
[TR]
[TD="class: articleMsg, colspan: 2, align: left"]In this article[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: articleImgCell"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: anchortext"]Policy overview
What are the guidelines?
Why does eBay have this policy?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[h=3]Policy overview[/h] Items that bear a company's official brand name or logo can be listed as long as the products were lawfully made by, for, or with the consent of that company.
We don't allow replicas, counterfeit items, or unauthorized copies to be listed on eBay. Unauthorized copies may include things that are bootlegged, illegally duplicated, or pirated. These kinds of things may infringe on someone's copyright or trademark.
For examples of what you can and can't sell on eBay, see the guidelines below.
Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. If it doesn't, it may be removed, and you may be subject to a range of other actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account.
Be sure to report listings that offer counterfeit items or replicas.
[h=3]What are the guidelines?[/h] Here are some examples of items that can and can't be listed on eBay (note that this isn't an exhaustive list):
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: tCell"]
Allowed
[/TD]
[TD="class: tCell"]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tCell"]
Restricted
[/TD]
[TD="class: tCell"]Public domain media (see our public domain media policy for more info)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tCell"]
Not allowed
[/TD]
[TD="class: tCell"]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Again, based on this guys seller feedback, and the pics of the servos, I would have avoided the purchase. Regardless, if they don't work, the OP will get his money back.
If this seller had a ad header noting "Tower Pro like servos"...he'd be dead in the water. Chances are their software would have caught that before it was even listed, or flagged for review later. Here is their policy in general:
Replicas, counterfeit items, and unauthorized copies policy
[TABLE="class: anchorTop"]
[TR]
[TD="class: articleMsg, colspan: 2, align: left"]In this article[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: articleImgCell"]
[/TD][TD="class: anchortext"]Policy overview
What are the guidelines?
Why does eBay have this policy?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[h=3]Policy overview[/h] Items that bear a company's official brand name or logo can be listed as long as the products were lawfully made by, for, or with the consent of that company.
We don't allow replicas, counterfeit items, or unauthorized copies to be listed on eBay. Unauthorized copies may include things that are bootlegged, illegally duplicated, or pirated. These kinds of things may infringe on someone's copyright or trademark.
For examples of what you can and can't sell on eBay, see the guidelines below.
Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. If it doesn't, it may be removed, and you may be subject to a range of other actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account.
Be sure to report listings that offer counterfeit items or replicas.
[h=3]What are the guidelines?[/h] Here are some examples of items that can and can't be listed on eBay (note that this isn't an exhaustive list):
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: tCell"]
Allowed
[/TD]
[TD="class: tCell"]
- Movies to which you own the rights
- Music you wrote, recorded, and to which you own the rights
- Photos you took yourself and to which you own the rights (if you have the consent of the people in the photos)
- Software you created and to which you own the rights
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tCell"]
Restricted
[/TD]
[TD="class: tCell"]Public domain media (see our public domain media policy for more info)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tCell"]
Not allowed
[/TD]
[TD="class: tCell"]
- Backup or archival copies of software
- Bootleg recordings from concerts or other live shows (see our bootleg recordings policy for more info)
- Counterfeits, fakes, or replicas of brand name items (for example, a purse bearing the Chanel name or logo that wasn't made by Chanel)
- Counterfeit electronics (like cell phones) or software
- Counterfeit replacement parts or consumables that weren't made by the manufacturer that the items are labeled with
- Digital copy only discs or codes (originally sold as part of a Blu-ray or DVD combo package)
- Fake autographs
- Media (such as CDs, DVDs, flash drives or any other recordable media) containing scanned pages from a book, magazine, manual, or other copyrighted materials that you didn't create
- Unauthorized or pirated copies of things like:
- Movies or videos
- Audio books and ebooks
- Music CDs, MP3s, MP4s
- Photos
- Software
- TV programs (including CDs or DVDs containing shows that were taped from television)
- Video games
- Movies or videos
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Again, based on this guys seller feedback, and the pics of the servos, I would have avoided the purchase. Regardless, if they don't work, the OP will get his money back.
09-09-2015, 11:25 AM
#9
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Here's an example of an "original" product, and then the obvious copy cats, all perfectly legal.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_1i8n521pdb_b
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_1i8n521pdb_b
09-09-2015, 11:41 AM
#10
My Feedback: (23)
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[QUOTE=scale only 4 me;12096716]If you believe this was intentional fraud or Counterfeit products, report to ebay and or Paypal,, you should be able to get a refund and might not have to send them back at all.
good luck
the above is correct. I have hundreds of transactions with PP and Ebay. A simple call to ebay, they will notify the seller and give allowed time for a response. if seller doesn't reply with resolve, ebay steps in again and issues refund. it doesn't matter if seller says not returnable, ebay will make them except a return and issue a refund if items are not as described.
good luck
the above is correct. I have hundreds of transactions with PP and Ebay. A simple call to ebay, they will notify the seller and give allowed time for a response. if seller doesn't reply with resolve, ebay steps in again and issues refund. it doesn't matter if seller says not returnable, ebay will make them except a return and issue a refund if items are not as described.
09-09-2015, 11:55 AM
#11
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
He doesn't have to call, just file a significantly not as described complaint, and that will get the ball rolling. Ebay won't automatically give the buyer his money back, they afford the seller a chance to state his case. Looks like the OP already left negative feedback for the seller, so they may choose to drag it out. The easy/right thing to do would have been to just issue a refund and say keep the things, it was a $25.00 sale. Now their PP account will get frozen for that amount, and someone has to deal with the responses etc. At the end of the day they probably own these for pennies on the dollar, not worth the time/effort to deal with this.
09-09-2015, 12:46 PM
#13
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
It's still o/k overall, far better for buyers than sellers. Anyone other than the big sellers clamors for good feedback and DSR's as it can make a big difference in fees. I went back to selling there this past year and did pretty well, they are the best place to sell something at the end of the day, they get a huge audience. Amazon really shook them up though, and they are still playing catch up trying to be Amazon. They love the big volume "pro" sellers. Amazon is great though, love the Prime, have not had a bad transaction with them in years.
09-09-2015, 01:47 PM
#14
My Feedback: (26)
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Chinese (or other) knockoffs are nothing new...
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/fakefutabaservos.shtml
http://mashable.com/2014/07/21/iphon.../#Rz5.HSlxAZky
http://www.bing.com/search?q=chinese...84EA&FORM=QBRE
http://www.bing.com/search?q=chinese...14960F7B2FC6BA
Nothing new to the educated buyer..."Knowledge is Power"...
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/fakefutabaservos.shtml
http://mashable.com/2014/07/21/iphon.../#Rz5.HSlxAZky
http://www.bing.com/search?q=chinese...84EA&FORM=QBRE
http://www.bing.com/search?q=chinese...14960F7B2FC6BA
Nothing new to the educated buyer..."Knowledge is Power"...
09-09-2015, 01:52 PM
#15
My Feedback: (26)
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How about a Chinese Tesla 348 hp knockoff...??
http://www.gizchina.com/2015/09/09/3...a-for-comfort/
Land Rover Clone...
http://www.gizchina.com/2014/11/24/l...-evoque-clone/
Audi Clone...it goes on and on, perhaps they have a clone of me..??
http://www.gizchina.com/2015/09/08/z...gdu-auto-show/
Trademarks, Copyrights and Patents are useless pieces of paper, kind of like a restraining order...
http://www.gizchina.com/2015/09/09/3...a-for-comfort/
Land Rover Clone...
http://www.gizchina.com/2014/11/24/l...-evoque-clone/
Audi Clone...it goes on and on, perhaps they have a clone of me..??
http://www.gizchina.com/2015/09/08/z...gdu-auto-show/
Trademarks, Copyrights and Patents are useless pieces of paper, kind of like a restraining order...
Last edited by Prop_Washer2; 09-09-2015 at 02:10 PM.
09-10-2015, 05:02 PM
#16
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Location: Mapleton, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
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Here today, gone tomorrow. I've had eBay sellers disappear before I can even leave negative feedback :O In general I've had good success with eBay over the years and very few bad experiences, but not none. I've owned my own successful business for over 30 years so I know how to recognize dishonesty and scamming when I see it, which is often when you are in business. This seller is a thief, and he knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he camouflaged the name of these servos.
No big loss
After a little work soldering some smt components and fitting some bearings (cheap by the dozen on eBay), I now have full spec perfectly functioning servos. No way I'm going to give that thieving b%^$#d of a seller the satisfaction of knowing that.
No big loss
After a little work soldering some smt components and fitting some bearings (cheap by the dozen on eBay), I now have full spec perfectly functioning servos. No way I'm going to give that thieving b%^$#d of a seller the satisfaction of knowing that.
