JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Where does the FAA obtain the authority to make rules backed up by fines and or imprisonment that we must how to? I thought these were called laws and only Congress had the authority to do so on the federal level. Can HUD, for example, make laws now that are backed by the threat of fine or imprisonment? Is the FAA doing this simply by saying they can or were they granted that power somewhere,some time?

RC_Fanatic

My Feedback: (1)

EPA does it all the time! Ditto for the IRS, FCC...

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

But doesn't Congress have to first pass a law and then these various agencies enforce it? They aren't writing the laws, are they, the way the FCC is doing in the case of registering our airplanes.

RC_Fanatic

My Feedback: (1)

These agencies have very broad authority. Note that in this case the FAA us going against a law passed by Congress that told them "hands off" on hobby airplanes.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

But somebody has to bestow that power on them. They can't just assume it. Otherwise, they would just be glorified vigilantes. Who bestows the FAA with the power, authority, to impose laws and then enforce them with the threat of fines or imprisonment to those that wish to oppose them.

I understand that the FAA is opposing Congress on the "hands off" thing. Now, just who the hell granted them that power?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Lawmakers, all of which have "turf" to protect.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

"lawmakers" doesn't really say anything. I guess I'm not getting through. I was under the mistaken assumption, apparently, that Congress was the only body that had the power to write and pass laws on the federal level. They then appoint various bodies to enforce those laws, IRS, FCC, EPA,etc.. In this case, and probably in many others, it appears that the FAA is both writing and enforcing the law, this one actually in direct opposition to what Congress mandated. Where do they get that authority?

chris923

My Feedback: (53)

The FAA,FCC,IRS etc. are a part of the Executive Branch. Congress passes a law. ( Thru already existing law the FAA can regulate) The Executive Branch headed by the President, makes the rules, sets the fines and administers the Law Congress passed. The Judicial branch is there to enforce the law congress made or rule it's unconstitutional if the law is Challenged in Federal court. Anyone ( with enough money for a lawyer) can challenge the Law Congress makes or the rules by which the Executive branch executes the law or the way the law is being enforced by the Federal courts.

As far as the FAA disregarding the Law Congress passed, this happens all the time now ( especially on this current administration) it's called EXCUTIVE OVER REACH. The only remedy in the short term is for the AMA to get a court injunction, stopping the FAA from enforcement. In my opinion, no judge is going to do that. With all the "NEW DRONES" out right now, the chances of a "catastrophic" drone accident increase everyday. No Judge want "blood on there hands. Of course law will not stop a drone "accident" but perception is reality.

The only way to make the FAA back down is for Congress to Sue the FAA (executive branch). That won't happen either, for the previously stated reason ( blood on their hands) and it's not worth any one in Congress spending political capital on to fix it.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

OK, but you said it yourself, Chris. "Congress passes a law." But in this case, Congress passed no law for the FAA to enforce. Where do they get the authority to pass the "law" saying that we must all register our planes. Are you saying that they just say so, so we must comply even though they have no authority to do it? And they call it "Executive Overreach"?

chris923

My Feedback: (53)

The Congress gave the FAA the authority to regulate the air space many years ago. That is their authority. When there is a conflict only Congress and or litigation can resolve it.

skylark-flier

Popper, think of it this way; FAA has many lawyers, many guns, many threats, many people who can ruin your great-great-grandchildrens' lives. How many of those things do you have?

Oh, yeah. FAA also has the rest of Govt telling everybody we don't have any need for guns to protect ourselves. Just today that was said in reference to ISIS terrorists vs US citizens - and idiot sheeple BELIEVE IT!!

fliers1

Has anyone contacted this Congressman Jim Inhofe again? http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/PR-Senate-2-2011.pdf

Sport_Pilot

Actually Congress doesn't have to sue, they can file contempt of congress, have them brought in, charged and taken to jail. But of course they have to do about 100 hearings first. When Congress sues they are avoiding using their own powers and kicking the can to the courts.

They even have their own jail in congress.

Jennifer Curtis

Congress passed a law many years ago creating the FAA
and authorizing them to make rules to regulate aviation.
It is generally a more appropriate way, by having people
knowledgeable in the field creating the regulations, rather
than having politicians try to legislate every detail in a
field they know nothing about.

Jenny

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

So the mandates of the FAA are rules, not laws. Is that correct? And if so, how am I obligated to follow a rule set down by the FAA? What makes those rules legally binding?

As far as politicians sticking their noses in where folks who actually know what they are talking about is concerned, isn't that what has happened to our military? Hasn't this regime removed several high ranking military men because they had the audacity to tell Obama something he didn't want to hear?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Jennifer Curtis

The FAA has the authority to create and
enforce rules. This authority was part of the
law that created the FAA. That is what makes
it legally binding in the USA. It doesn't apply
in all parts of the world.

Jenny

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Jennifer, you are more than likely correct, but I am still trying to determine how that happens. The first article of the Constitution gives the Congress, the House and the Senate, the power to write and pass laws that we must all observe. However, where does the Constitution or Bill of Rights give the Congress the power to pass that authority along to anyone else? Unless Congress has the authority to pass the formulation of law along to others, the FAA in this case, nobody has the right to formulate law. Are we simply bowing to the FAA because they say we must?

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

Just about any law or rule, in this case, will stand until challenged and overturned in court,,
California via referendum passed 3 laws banning same sex marriage, Courts threw it out three times.

Our problem,,, who's going to pay to have it challenged in court??

So yea,, looks like we'll have to take it.. How ya liking that Hope and Change??

Jennifer Curtis

Here is an excerpt from the USA law giving authority
to make and enforce rules:

Air commerce act of 1926

Chap. 344. - An act to encourage and regulate the use of aircraft in
commerce and for other purposes.

Sec 2 Promotion of air commerce. - It shal be the duty of the
Seceretary of commerce to foster air commerce in accordance with
the privisions of this act, and for such purpose -
e. Establish air traffic rules for the navigation, protection, and
identification of aircraft, including rules as to safe altitudes of
flight and rules for the prevention of collisions between vessels and
aircraft

Section 11
a. It shall be unlawful, except to the extent
authorized or exempt under section 6-
(5) to navigate any aircraft otherwise than in conformity with
the air traffic rules.
b. Any person who (1) violates any provision of subdivision (a)
of this section . . . .shall be subject to a civil penalty . . .

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

The problem is it is all about the wording. They are not allowed to promulgate any regulations specifically aimed at the "hobby" aspect of UAS's. This leaves all of the current regulations available for enforcement if they so choose. So what they have done is say that all UAS operators have to be registered, but they are doing the hobbyists a favor by allowing us to have a streamlined process. The 400' rule is still a suggestion for "safety" and not mandatory, however you are required to assert that you will abide by that suggestion before you can register. I believe you could fight that and win in court, but I am unwilling to try. The rest falls in line with the congressional law regarding the hobby. As far as whether they do anything to you, the whole safety part is a very broad brush.

Jennifer Curtis

The FAA has clearly violated the law by promulgating
a rule that hobby pilots must register. The reason they
can get away with it is that there is no penalty for them
if they violate the law.

Someone has to be charged with violating the rule,
and take it to court to have the rule stricken, and then
they only stop enforcing it without any other consequences.

The victim still has legal fees to pay.

Jenny

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

The FAA like most Federal Agencies is under the Executive Branch.
Now how many people complaining Voted for this Executive branch?
I dare say several.
So when stupid voters vote for stupid people you have stupid consequences. Ipso facto.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Hey, at least the AMA isn't getting blamed for a change!

Jennifer Curtis

The FAA operates under the president's authority
the same way the cleaning crew operates under
Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook. Basically they think
they know what they are doing, and are left to do it.

The top honchos don't worry about the details unless
it affects them directly.

Jenny