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How Many Will Refuse to Register?

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How Many Will Refuse to Register?

Old 12-23-2015, 04:44 PM
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JollyPopper
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Default How Many Will Refuse to Register?

I have read in a couple threads that there will be a number, maybe a large number, of folks who will drop out of this hobby because they won't be willing to register their planes with the FAA. What is the general feeling here concerning that situation? Secondly, how many people will refuse to register but continue to fly?

Another question would be who is going to enforce the new rule or will there be any attempt at enforcement? Is this just an attempt by the guvment to show the great unwashed public that they are indeed on top of the drone situation and really don't have any intention of trying to enforce a really lame rule? Does the run-of-the-mill FAA agent have the power to arrest or issue citations or will they be enlisting the help of the local law enforcement agents to do the actual arresting. Local law won't have any idea what the laws are or who is in violation of them. We had an irate neighbor call the local law on us several times this year and they had to respond because there was a complaint on paper that they had to satisfy but had no idea what to do once they arrived at the field, whether we were breaking any laws or not. We had to tell them what the laws are.

I personally live in a small town in northern Arkansas. The nearest FAA office is in Little Rock. We fly at three different fields, all privately owned, none AMA affiliated, and I doubt the FAA has any idea that they even exist. I really don't expect anyone from the Little Rock FAA office to show up at any of the fields looking for guys who didn't register their models.

Is this just a foot in the door kind of thing to generate some revenue in future for the guvment? Ostensibly, it is $5.00 to register the first time, that money to be refunded if the sheep fall into line and register within 30 days. That is good for three years. Then, will it go up to $25.00 for the next three years and then $50.00 the following three years? Twenty years from now, what will it cost to register your toy planes with the FAA?

Surely no sane person with the ability to think will believe that registering our toy planes with the FAA will do a damned thing toward combating terrorism. Isn't that allegedly what this is all about?
Old 12-23-2015, 05:02 PM
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porcia83
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Great question, given your characterization of some as sheep, looks like you might be looking for only one point of view. If they are brave enough to answer the question, might want to give them more respect.

Anyway..the chances of anyone really having a problem are pretty small, especially if you are in compliance. Even in your small town in Northern Arkansas, with nary a FAA office nearby, you've already had neighbors feel the need to get local LE involved for other issues. Any of those clubs have an enemy, perhaps someone who will continue to call the law next year? It's great that you were able to explain the law to the LE in the past, are you so sure the personal with a grudge hasn't done the same the next time LE is out? Who in your club is willing to step up and test the waters? No guts no glory right?

Nobody has to register if they don't want to. They better be prepared to deal with the eventualities of that if something goes south. Minute risk, but it's still there. Now, back to grazing.
Old 12-24-2015, 02:31 AM
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Nobody has to register if they don't want to. They better be prepared to deal with the eventualities of that if something goes south.
Reminds me of a guy I met when I was riding street bikes (rice rockets),,, he was telling the story of how he got a ticket for speeding and not having a Motorcycle licence,, As the officer was writing the ticket he asked,, "Why don't you have a Motorcycle Endorsement",, the guy answers,, "I didn't need it until now"
Old 12-24-2015, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JollyPopper
Surely no sane person with the ability to think will believe that registering our toy planes with the FAA will do a damned thing toward combating terrorism. Isn't that allegedly what this is all about?
It's just another way of developing revenue through taxation. If an incident occurs, law enforcement will still have to do their homework to determine who caused and motive.
Old 12-25-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
Reminds me of a guy I met when I was riding street bikes (rice rockets),,, he was telling the story of how he got a ticket for speeding and not having a Motorcycle licence,, As the officer was writing the ticket he asked,, "Why don't you have a Motorcycle Endorsement",, the guy answers,, "I didn't need it until now"
I still ride my street bike and saw abuses of power because the people in power call the shots.

Here's a story of one abuse way back when I lived in Wichita, KS:

Riding with about 5 friends one night and a cop gets behind us at a red light as all of us were getting ready to make a left hand turn from one busy road onto another busy road. The light changes to green and all of us make the turn. As soon as we completed the turn - the cop lights come on. The last guy, one of the newest guys to the group, pulled to the center (turning) lane and pulled into a parking lot on the left. All of us parked further down the road and waited for him to catch up, which he did after a 15-20 minute delay. I knew none of us were carrying on at any time that the cop was behind us, so I asked him what happened. He said, she wrote me a ticket. I said, "for what?". He said for pulling off to the left side of a road when a cop is signaling behind you. (instead of pulling off to the right). I said, Holy crap, I didn't even know a law like that was on the books. But then it occurred to me: What was the basis of you getting pulled over? He said there was no reason. To me it sounds like a case of entrapment, there was no legit reason to be pulled over, but the cop did so and then issued a ticket when the kid made a move of getting out of flowing traffic. Point of the story - the cop had an agenda. Could the kid have argued that he was pulled over for no good reason? Maybe, but I think he paid the fine and was done with it.

At another time, a cop pulled me over and asked for my license and registration. Being that I was pretty sure that I did not break any driving rules, I asked, "Sir, Can I ask why you pulled me over?" He said, I kind of wanted to see your bike up close. If everything is in order (license and registration), you can be on your way. A few minutes later he came back, we talked for about 5 minutes and I was back on my way with the cop saying, "Drive Safe." I am still not completely sure how I feel about the situation. The cop was congenial, but it felt like a "fishing" party to me. (of course, my license and registration was in good shape.)

Those with more legal background here, might be able to answer if the cop in each case was legally allowed to do what they did. Would their actions hold up in a court room?

Food for thought.
Old 12-25-2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rutanman
I still ride my street bike and saw abuses of power because the people in power call the shots.

Here's a story of one abuse way back when I lived in Wichita, KS:

Riding with about 5 friends one night and a cop gets behind us at a red light as all of us were getting ready to make a left hand turn from one busy road onto another busy road. The light changes to green and all of us make the turn. As soon as we completed the turn - the cop lights come on. The last guy, one of the newest guys to the group, pulled to the center (turning) lane and pulled into a parking lot on the left. All of us parked further down the road and waited for him to catch up, which he did after a 15-20 minute delay. I knew none of us were carrying on at any time that the cop was behind us, so I asked him what happened. He said, she wrote me a ticket. I said, "for what?". He said for pulling off to the left side of a road when a cop is signaling behind you. (instead of pulling off to the right). I said, Holy crap, I didn't even know a law like that was on the books. But then it occurred to me: What was the basis of you getting pulled over? He said there was no reason. To me it sounds like a case of entrapment, there was no legit reason to be pulled over, but the cop did so and then issued a ticket when the kid made a move of getting out of flowing traffic. Point of the story - the cop had an agenda. Could the kid have argued that he was pulled over for no good reason? Maybe, but I think he paid the fine and was done with it.

At another time, a cop pulled me over and asked for my license and registration. Being that I was pretty sure that I did not break any driving rules, I asked, "Sir, Can I ask why you pulled me over?" He said, I kind of wanted to see your bike up close. If everything is in order (license and registration), you can be on your way. A few minutes later he came back, we talked for about 5 minutes and I was back on my way with the cop saying, "Drive Safe." I am still not completely sure how I feel about the situation. The cop was congenial, but it felt like a "fishing" party to me. (of course, my license and registration was in good shape.)

Those with more legal background here, might be able to answer if the cop in each case was legally allowed to do what they did. Would their actions hold up in a court room?

Food for thought.
There isn't a cop out there that can't figure out a reason to pull you over right now for doing nothing more than driving down the street. Not saying it's fair, it just is the reality. In CT, anything hanging from your rear view mirror is justification for stopping, even a piece of string. Guess how many people drive with their handicap sticker on the rear view? A light out, a smudge on the license plate that obscures a number. Cut that corner to short or too long turning right, brushed up against the center line..boom, here come the lights. Perhaps your car fits a vague description of a car involved in something a week ago, another reason. The best advice is to deal with it calmly. Hands on the wheel, be respectful. Tape the stop if you can on your phone. Move slow to get your paperwork. Answer the questions you feel you must, then move on. It's almost impossible to win any argument with a cop right there. We've all seen the videos too where things head way down the wrong path very quickly, is this hobby really worth anything close to that?

If the officer has violated any protocol, report it. Not sure, report it anyway, it creates a paper trail and a history that will follow the officer and can help establish a pattern and practice after the fact. Notwithstanding the forecasts of FAA troops or even LE at the local fields, have your paperwork at the ready in case you're approached, and just check the ego and answer the questions. Fine, some might call you a sheeple for not "standing up" to the cops, but I can bet 99.99% of the time you'll walk away to fly another day.

Last edited by porcia83; 12-25-2015 at 04:24 PM.
Old 12-25-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Fine, some might call you a sheeple for not "standing up" to the cops, but I can bet 99.99% of the time you'll walk away to fly another day.
Those who pull the sheeple card have nothing better to do but find someone to criticize or blame. Bet when they are cornered go "sheeple", too. Hypocrisy abounds.
Old 12-25-2015, 05:05 PM
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aka keyboard commandos,, tough talk,,, but surely won't walk the walk
Old 12-25-2015, 08:03 PM
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The FAA hangs you with your own rope. Dont register; they dont care as they have a set of rules to handle it. Although you might come upon a FAA inspector who wants to test you, you probably will not ever see one, unless something happens; they do not have the staffing. If they come out for an incident and decide to go all out, you better have the ducks in a row. Once they set the wheels in motion they can stop it; they never break the chain. Every FAA person I have dealt with has been good; I have 3 FAA licenses. If all is going well you can joke with them; you can not joke with the TSA; that day will come now. They have no sense of humor, like yelling fire in a movie theater. Im waiting for mid Jan to register and give the AMA a little time; I figure they have a 20% chance. It would be nice if the AMA would separate model airplanes and helicopters from drones; they should have all along. I see why they want drones as it can be more dues, but it should be run as a satellite organization. I am sure it is too late.
Old 12-25-2015, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
There isn't a cop out there that can't figure out a reason to pull you over right now for doing nothing more than driving down the street. Not saying it's fair, it just is the reality. In CT, anything hanging from your rear view mirror is justification for stopping, even a piece of string. Guess how many people drive with their handicap sticker on the rear view? A light out, a smudge on the license plate that obscures a number. Cut that corner to short or too long turning right, brushed up against the center line..boom, here come the lights. Perhaps your car fits a vague description of a car involved in something a week ago, another reason. The best advice is to deal with it calmly. Hands on the wheel, be respectful. Tape the stop if you can on your phone. Move slow to get your paperwork. Answer the questions you feel you must, then move on. It's almost impossible to win any argument with a cop right there. We've all seen the videos too where things head way down the wrong path very quickly, is this hobby really worth anything close to that?

If the officer has violated any protocol, report it. Not sure, report it anyway, it creates a paper trail and a history that will follow the officer and can help establish a pattern and practice after the fact. Notwithstanding the forecasts of FAA troops or even LE at the local fields, have your paperwork at the ready in case you're approached, and just check the ego and answer the questions. Fine, some might call you a sheeple for not "standing up" to the cops, but I can bet 99.99% of the time you'll walk away to fly another day.
I agree and have repeatedly said 99% of the people that get roughed up or shot by the police have provoked it even if in some cases the officer may have went somewhat overboard. I have never had a bad experience
with a officer in over 40 years of driving and have had about 4 or 5 tickets in that time. I know people that are always in trouble with the police and won't register their cars and they end up having their lic revoked
and still drive, they are always paying steep fines having their cars impounded and doing time. I have always known that their way gets them no where fast I OTH always comply with the police and let them be
on their way as fast as possible and it always turns out well in fact I have had a couple of stops where I did not even receive a ticket. If a cop asks for my ID and papers while I am out flying I will politely give
them to him and let them move on to me that makes the most common sense.
Old 12-25-2015, 08:58 PM
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The most worrisome thing I see on the various threads relating to this subject is the relatively large number of people who seem unconcerned, if not downright welcoming, of more government intrusion into their affairs. I fear we now have a generation, possibly more, of folks who have been conditioned to accept it and, scarier still, promote it. My objection is not whether the task of registering is a hardship, nor the $5 fee. My objection is that it is simply an over reach by an already bloated government that does nothing to alleviate any perceived problem and, IMHO, goes against the very principals upon which this country is founded. Granted, it is but one grievance among very many. And a relatively insignificant one in the grand scheme of things, but never the less it is one more bite taken out of our freedoms. A line needs to be drawn somewhere because, rest assured, the government is never going to willingly give up any ground that it gains and will continue to push for more control. For those of you who are unconcerned, at what point will you become concerned?
Old 12-25-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad Veich
The most worrisome thing I see on the various threads relating to this subject is the relatively large number of people who seem unconcerned, if not downright welcoming, of more government intrusion into their affairs. I fear we now have a generation, possibly more, of folks who have been conditioned to accept it and, scarier still, promote it. My objection is not whether the task of registering is a hardship, nor the $5 fee. My objection is that it is simply an over reach by an already bloated government that does nothing to alleviate any perceived problem and, IMHO, goes against the very principals upon which this country is founded. Granted, it is but one grievance among very many. And a relatively insignificant one in the grand scheme of things, but never the less it is one more bite taken out of our freedoms. A line needs to be drawn somewhere because, rest assured, the government is never going to willingly give up any ground that it gains and will continue to push for more control. For those of you who are unconcerned, at what point will you become concerned?
My answer is that we have problem caused by RC operated models/craft that we did not have on a large scale 10 to 15 years ago so something needs to be done, I will agree that the registration system in of itself
won't completely solve the problems we have and I don't know what will except to catch the offenders and deal with them.
Old 12-25-2015, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad Veich
The most worrisome thing I see on the various threads relating to this subject is the relatively large number of people who seem unconcerned, if not downright welcoming, of more government intrusion into their affairs. I fear we now have a generation, possibly more, of folks who have been conditioned to accept it and, scarier still, promote it. My objection is not whether the task of registering is a hardship, nor the $5 fee. My objection is that it is simply an over reach by an already bloated government that does nothing to alleviate any perceived problem and, IMHO, goes against the very principals upon which this country is founded. Granted, it is but one grievance among very many. And a relatively insignificant one in the grand scheme of things, but never the less it is one more bite taken out of our freedoms. A line needs to be drawn somewhere because, rest assured, the government is never going to willingly give up any ground that it gains and will continue to push for more control. For those of you who are unconcerned, at what point will you become concerned?
It's not a question of welcoming aditional govt oversight and intervention, it's having the common sense to recognize that it's here now, and it's a reality. They can wrap themselves up in the consitution all they want and scream "murica from the rooftops, the reality is they either will comply or deal with the conseguences of it. As others noted above, they are all full of bravado behind the safety of keyboard, but they will be as compliant as kittens when faced with a LE officer staring them in the face. And if they are the brave souls who decided to pound their chest and scream about NOT registering, they will be the first ones to soil themselves and look to blame Obama or the AMA or anyone but themselves for their predicament. Meanwhile, it would have taken 5 minutes to register.
Old 12-25-2015, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GallopingGhostler
Those who pull the sheeple card have nothing better to do but find someone to criticize or blame. Bet when they are cornered go "sheeple", too. Hypocrisy abounds.
Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
aka keyboard commandos,, tough talk,,, but surely won't walk the walk
Yup...100% correct...one of them loves to throw out the sheeple card at any chance he can, a real hit and run artist who castigates anyone who dares consider registering or following the law/rules. Unless you hate the AMA, FAA, and any form of government, you are part of a flock. Suddenly a constitutional scholar too, apparently well versed in the finer points of constitutional law. He's in other threads, and will probably swoop in here soon to instruct us all. There isn't a doubt it my mind he would be the first one to lapping at the boots of the LE questioning him too...oh yes sir, or course sir, whatever you need sir.

Simple really, ya don't do nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
Old 12-25-2015, 09:38 PM
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With 28 years experience of being a cop, I have run into the full spectrum of people. Those that knew they committed a violation and those that knew they committed a violation but would not admit to it. I admit, I gave out more tickets to those that were A-holes than I did those that had respect. Most of the time I handed out "Warning Notices".

When I first started flying RC, we were required to have a FCC license just like a CBer. After a few years, that requirement was dropped by the FCC.

I think those that are really against any registration are those that have something to hide. If you don't think that this registration process won't work it's way in the law enforcement looking for people that are delinquent in child support, outstanding warrants, tax dodgers, and other people of interests you are living in a dream world.

I personally don't have a problem with the registration except for the addition effort to register. But if I have a plane that flies off, hopefully someone will find it and have a way to report it and it makes it's way back to me.

However, I will hold off until the AMA gives the go ahead.

Frank
Old 12-26-2015, 04:35 AM
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PLUS 10 !!!! VERY WELL PUT ..
the government we have now, is because of sheep.
as the COP put it,,,ITS NOT, BRAKING THE LAW, UNTILL YOU GET CAUGHT.
all will cave in because its ONLY $5.00 .
I WILL NOT COMPLY WITH MORE STUPID LAWS.
Old 12-26-2015, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RAPPTOR
as the COP put it,,,ITS NOT, BREAKING THE LAW, UNTIL YOU GET CAUGHT.
That is not what he said.

all will cave in because its ONLY $5.00 .
It is not a matter of caving in. Out of prudence, we comply. We urge our representatives to change the law. Then we abide by that change.

AMA's point was to wait on a response from the justices of the US Court on the petition their legal team filed. If response comes before FAA deadline and is positive, registration may not be required. FAA will have to rethink and revise. As deadline approaches and there is no response, of course we will comply and register. Some have decided to not register and give up RC aircraft. That is honorable and an alternative.

I WILL NOT COMPLY WITH MORE STUPID LAWS.
That is your choice.
Old 12-26-2015, 06:00 AM
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has not worked yet at higher levels !
Old 12-26-2015, 10:28 AM
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Nothing funnier than progressives getting offended when people talk about the sheep.

It is scary though how many people are just willing to comply at all costs and not even question, while implying that those who choose to question are somehow less.

There are a lot of people that don't see the tops of the trees anymore because people complied and didn't question their governments throughout history.

Last edited by Desertlakesflying; 12-26-2015 at 10:31 AM.
Old 12-26-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
It's not a question of welcoming aditional govt oversight and intervention, it's having the common sense to recognize that it's here now, and it's a reality.
You make my point perfectly.
Old 12-26-2015, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad Veich
You make my point perfectly.
Glad I could help although I doubt through all that don't tread on me dogma you will see the wisdom. Continue to enjoy the benefits of intrusive agencies like the CDC, NTSB, and lets not forget those monsters at the FDA. Wondering if you would be the type that would be the first to complain when your social security check is a day late too?

No worries, let the adults of the world (ie sheeple) take care of the hard lifting while the rest enjoy the fruits of their labor and complain on the sidelines.

"murica!
Old 12-26-2015, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Desertlakesflying
Nothing funnier than progressives getting offended when people talk about the sheep.

It is scary though how many people are just willing to comply at all costs and not even question, while implying that those who choose to question are somehow less.

There are a lot of people that don't see the tops of the trees anymore because people complied and didn't question their governments throughout history.
It's equally scary how many of give give me liberty or give me more of everything while govt shrinks types can't see the forest through the trees. Also, nobody implied those who look at things differently are "less", at least not in this thread. 99% of us are compliant in a hundred different ways everyday, to think otherwise while wrapping one self up in the "impossibly small govt mantra" is just naive. Got a drivers license? Are you part of the flock? Got a social security number? What flock again? Pay taxes? You get the picture.
Old 12-26-2015, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Glad I could help although I doubt through all that don't tread on me dogma you will see the wisdom. Continue to enjoy the benefits of intrusive agencies like the CDC, NTSB, and lets not forget those monsters at the FDA. Wondering if you would be the type that would be the first to complain when your social security check is a day late too?

No worries, let the adults of the world (ie sheeple) take care of the hard lifting while the rest enjoy the fruits of their labor and complain on the sidelines.

"murica!
I won't bother to address the personal attacks. As for what little remains it is a good reminder of why I tend to avoid discussions such as these. I don't enjoy banging my head against brick walls and I have seen very little evidence that minds are going to be changed when debating within the confines of social media. Essentially I believe it comes down to the fact that our country is divided by folks with wildly different world views. Something that I don't think was the case throughout much of our history. In the absence of unity (and I would argue personal responsibility as well.) the government has stepped in to fill the vacuum. I think that it is a slippery slope which spells disaster for our way of life. You think otherwise. We can agree to disagree.
Old 12-26-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad Veich
I won't bother to address the personal attacks. As for what little remains it is a good reminder of why I tend to avoid discussions such as these. I don't enjoy banging my head against brick walls and I have seen very little evidence that minds are going to be changed when debating within the confines of social media. Essentially I believe it comes down to the fact that our country is divided by folks with wildly different world views. Something that I don't think was the case throughout much of our history. In the absence of unity (and I would argue personal responsibility as well.) the government has stepped in to fill the vacuum. I think that it is a slippery slope which spells disaster for our way of life. You think otherwise. We can agree to disagree.
Ironically those that love to talk about others and passing judgement on them (not being concerned with things, the govt taking over etc etc) are often time the most thin skinned. I didn't see any personal attacks from anyone in this thread, I guess on that issue we'll agree to disagree. Also, if one is posting here to "change minds" as opposed to just sharing thoughts and ideas etc, then ya, it might get to the point they will be frustrated that some won't see their vision. People in the US have always held divergent views on many issues, wars have even been fought over them (that whole North v South thing). I'm not overly concerned when a govt agency gets involved in my life, I'm just not that cynical I guess. It's one of the costs to have the lives we have. As I noted above, the CDC, FDA, NTSB are all agencies that provide invaluable services to us, and yes, even the FAA does as well. This most recent involvement, specifically as it applies to the hobby, is not intrusive or burdensom in the least. Register for free, fly for free for 3 years...then pay $5.00 for 3 years after that. I small price to pay for the privileged (NOT a right) of flying.

Anyway, happy continued holidays and flying. I wish we had AZ weather all the time in the North East, although at 60 degrees today I can't complain.
Old 12-26-2015, 02:33 PM
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JimmyZep
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As of right now I do not plan to register.

If I cant fly at my local field I may have to bend over and take it.

I hope that does not happen.

Jimmy

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