porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Poll Poll Poll Poll !!!

kmeyers

You need to look at the bright side, you have a child, you communicate with them, your on the right side of the dirt.

You seem to me to dislike "common sense". Nobody has all the answers ,but, opinions should not be judged.

Debate should be held off until all the ideas are put forth and then the best can be gleaned from the pool.

Early debate drowns the softer voices from even offering their opinions.

.02

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

My response above in blue. Thanks for the discussion!

jeffrey solomon

Yes for some guys opening the MR box requires tremendous skills.

I have been told by AMA members who fly MR that it is far easier and requires almost no skill
equivalent to flying RC planes, and helicopters,
Now of course they don't exactly use that language, that would not be something they wouldn't readily admit, but by discussions with them, I have a reasonable approximation of the
skill level needed to fly a MR excluding of course racing drones, that is to say MRs almost completely under control of the pilot, even if not racing.
And by the way these long time AMA members were flying BLOS totally in opposition to the AMA safety to code, so education did not seem to be effective for them.

What is the question?
Is the general public making a mad dash to the local Pep Boys Drone repair center with hundreds of broken drones, like in Star Wars (droids)
Are there lines out the doors of Best Buys Geek Squad Service Center, with irate customers clutching quivering, and sparking broken drones in their arms? Hey, what's up with this piece of sh-t . The first time I tried to fly it it hit my dog!
No,so I can with some degree of confidence say, this inferential evidence might suggest, the nonAMA general public is probably not crashing their drones very often and we can surmise that less skill is required to fly most MR then when compare it to a person
attempting to fly an RC plane on their own for the first time. Remember the build a plane, fly a plane, crash a plane, build a........stories.

It is not the skill needed or not needed by the pilot of the MR that is at issue, It is the improper flying of the MR
with or without skill , if extraordinary skills were required to fly most MR we wouldn't be faced with the FAA or this discussion, right?

Would it be better if they flew their MR improperly and they had great skills?
Would it be better if they flew their MR improperly and they had limited skills?

What's the difference? Both puts us in a bad light with the FAA for the reasons I have previously stated
And let me apologize if some perceive cogent arguments as bullying , if you don't have that perception then no apology is needed

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Perhaps you're good with the opening of the MR box, no tremendous skills needed there however flying these are a little different. Here's what you said recently about them )my emphasis noted):

Racing drones whether they are raced LOS or FPV requires huge skills
It's like a racing helicopter with 4 or 5 other helicopters
on a tight torturous course.
I fly 3D heli and I doubt I would finish a race.

That was in the thread someone started titled "the SINGLE reason"....as if there was only ONE reason for anything. At the end of the day it's doubtful anyone in that thread could fly one right out of the box, nor could they do anything close to what the guys in some of the videos Rob shows can do. Thankfully there are a few reasonable and level headed folks in that thread pointing out the screamingly obvious point...they aren't easy to fly. I'm 99.99% sure the OT has never flown a quad/drone, and certainly not a racing one. He said in part:

Multirotors/drones/tri/quad/hex/octocopters/etc all have one thing in common which allows anyone to immediately do something incredibly stupid with a high degree of confidence and success.

They simply do not require any instruction or skill to 'fly'. Period. None, nada, zero.

Lumped everything into one category (hmmm..what govt agency did that recently)...and said they required no skill or instruction to fly. Just amazing.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IRmlX6rrs2w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not a person in that thread that could take one of these units out of the box and fly it with no instruction or skill.

jeffrey solomon

I don't really see a disagreement here.
Racing drones or drones with minimal stabilization are
harder to fly than drones with maximal stabilization.
These are for advanced drone flyers.


The drones flown LOS with stabilization, or FPV with stabilization, I believe constitutes a
majority of drones purchased in the U.S. but I don't have the numbers. These are drones for introductory drone flyers.

Drones bought and flown either LOS without stabilization or FPV without stabilization would comprise
a minority of U.S. purchases, I suspect, and probably have the shortest survival rates of non-smoking drones.
And are, I believe,these are not the drones most often seen flying in prohibited areas, and in reckless ways.

The drone types, with stabilization either LOS or FPV, I believe are the types, purchased by a majority of people little or no
RC experience, which can include certain AMA members.

Is there some data you posses to the contrary? If so present it.

Also,
I have a great skills at opening boxes
and sometimes even minds but of course we know there are certain exceptions.

Rob2160

There is one consolation in getting old...

No-one is immune.

twistman

My Feedback: (42)

Thank you for clearing that up, and porcia I do apologize for taking that the wrong way. With all that is going on right now having some humor can be a good thing. I think all of us would just like to go back to the way it was and fly and have fun doing it. The friends we make while in this hobby is just as important to me as the flying.

Rob2160

What are your views on fixed wing aircraft like the E-Flite apprentice? You can open a box and fly it - it self stabilises and has anti crash technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucTdBa6AzfY Same goes for a number of the Blade Helicopters. e.g. the 200 SRX which even comes with a "panic switch" that will auto level to a hover.

Aren't these also "out of the box and easy to fly?"

Why do you think multicopters flown LOS without FPV have a short lifespan?

Many of the top models are quality CF and tougher than any other RC vehicle I have flown by a huge margin.

One company (Armattan) even offers a lifetime airframe warranty. If you crash it and break it you get a new one for free. How many other manufacturers in this hobby provide that?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

No problem at all buddy, no worries. We're all in this together no matter how we feel about the AMA or FAA...or the YMCA !

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks, now that song is going through my head! It's always fun to stay at the....

twistman

My Feedback: (42)

Lets all go stay at theYMCA
Invite the FAA
Then see what they have to say!

jollyroger

My Feedback: (6)

MY thought is that only those who fly M.R should be required to register. Not only register but have proof of insurance against property damage and liability.
Should be good for some of these children to have to shucks out some money for a million dollar liabilty plan.

mike1974

My Feedback: (1)

So I should have to register because I have a blade nano quad and a 250 size racing quad? Why? By the way I built and programmed the 250 quad. All parts I picked out, put together and programmed.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

That's easy, it's just more elitism and classicism hard at work. That and an ignorance of the difference between a MR and "drone". People use those terms interchangeably without realizing the huge difference. A heli is actually a multi-rotor. People can post 100 videos of guys flying multi-rotors without cameras and goggles, but some people refuse to agree they are different from a "drone" that's flown out of line of sight. In fact many double down. Here's a great example of one of those horrible multi-rotor people, you know, a "child":

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZvKKjDGtJAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This guy should have to register but nobody else. Think those that call for this guy to be registered could do anything close to what this guy has done, or could fly like he could? Not a chance!

jeffrey solomon

I think the FAAs plan in part, is to render the AMA completely redundant.
If the FAA is to become involved in the daily monitoring and registering of the model aviation hobby
does not that render the AMA redundant, and unnecessary ?

twistman

My Feedback: (42)

Without the AMA, how will we be insured. In my opion we need the AMA in that area, think about it. In 2007 there was an accident at the field I was flying at, when all was said and done the AMA's insurance paid out over 200,000.00,would you be able to do that?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

No, it doesn't. The two entities function in completely different ways.

At no time has the FAA indicated they are trying to be involved in monitoring activity, the require registration, that's it.

The AMA isn't even indicating they are going to monitoring or requiring registration.

The AMA functions are completely different then that of the FAA.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

That's one great example, I doubt the feds would be stepping up to pay that. People need to realize all of the things that come along with the AMA membership, and all of the different things they do, services they provide etc. It's more than a magazine and insurance.

jeffrey solomon

No,
but there are other insurance companies that might be happy to
get our business,
I have been involved with the setting up of a field some time back, and
the physical requirements to effectuate coverage are quite numerous.
I was wondering if you could provide me with a few details about the accident
Without divulging any sensitive info from what you remember?

Did the accident involve contact between a person an aircraft?
Was the person injured, an AMA member or not ?
Was a examination made by an insurance adjuster representing the AMA at the field?
Did the adjuster find any problems with the fields layout or safety provisions ?
Was the settlement for medical treatment ,only, or was there payment for negligence as well?

Was a private negligence suit brought by the injured person?
Was the result if any ?

If you can provide this info, I would greatly appreciate it. I have maintained since my experience with a field set-up, that many flying fields would
not be covered by AMA insurance should an accident occur. I also found out from several insurance agents that the idea of coverage through
homeowners or renters is insurance is so rare one might well say it does not exist in the insurance industry. Homeowners policies have specific exclusions for hobbies.,
and model aircraft are viewed, as the FAA views model aircraft as they are in the same category as full scale aircraft. In any case, the quantities of exclusions are so numerous contained in homeowners policy as to render the probability of receiving coverage for a flying accident highly unlikely.
I would imagine that many would say" but they sold us a policy" that is true the AMA will sell a policy to anyone who says they are setting up a field they expect the policy holder (the club) to follow their guidelines they layout. If you don't then it is tuff luck

twistman

My Feedback: (42)

Ok, here is what happened. There were six of us at the field, one pilot was at one flight station at the north end and one was at the south end. No one else was flying at the time. The pilot on the south end called out that his plane was out of control. As far as we knoe the other pilot did not hear him, the 60 size Ultra Stick hit him in the neck. Myself and another pilot got to him with towels to try and control the bleeding, he stopped breathing so we had to turn him on his side and he started to breath. Another pilot called 911,the paramedics arrived in about 10 minutes. They took over and called the hospital to send the helecopter, in just a few minutes it arrivedand landed on the runway. I went to the hospital to fill his wife in about what happened. When the doctor came out he said because it took so long the prop was down in his neck, they had him on a respirator, he had ten broken vertabrae, and the white matter and gray matter of his brain had seperated. Almost two years to recover after hospital stay and rehab. I visited him every day for over a year, made a full recovery. Everything at our field was set up by AMA rules. I had to spend several days at the field with officials from AMA and their insurance adjusters. They found everything about the field was just as it should be. By the way, I can tell all this by heart because it was the most horrible thing I have ever witnessed, and one other thing I can remember every detail because I had to tell it to 6 differant officials, and I was the president of the club at the time. It is something I never ever have to witness again. Oh, one othr thing AMA had experts inspect the plane and all the radio gear, multiple times.

twistman

My Feedback: (42)

I forgotto say that all the money was for medical, no other settelment.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

I'm very sorry to hear this happened to a member of your club. I do appreciate you taking the time share your experience and hear the AMA insurance came through.

twistman

My Feedback: (42)

I forgot to mention, the pilot that got hit was also flying at the time but we were to busy tending to him to think he had a plane still in the air,it came down right behind us but could have very easily hit all of us,but it didn't.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

holy cow that was horrible, and as you note could have been worse, much worse! the insurance coverage is there for exactly this purpose, glad they came through. I think it's fair to say everyone hates paying for insurance especially if it's not ever used...but boy is it nice to have that protection when it's needed. We've had one incident about 10 years ago at our club, before I was a member, where one plane was in the air (30% Yak55 I believe), and the pilot lost control and hit the guy cutting the lawn. Of all the places it could come down, it was on the guy cruising by on a Skag. The plane broke his leg in two places, his h/o carrier paid their limit and I believe the AMA paid around 90K. 3 feet higher and it would have been his head.