Airtronics on the way out?
#27
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I got the impression that Sanwa is the real culprit here, not Global. I too am a longtime Airtronics user with the RDS8000 being my first 2.4ghz radio and replaced by the SD10G a couple of years later. But Airtronics has not come out with any kind of innovation since the SD10G, and even it didn't have any new features that weren't already pretty much standard on all 10 channel radios. Sanwa has refused to develop telemetry and voice prompts even though the market has made it obvious that they are desirable features. After releasing the SD10G, Sanwa just sat back and cashed the checks until their products became obsolete. I like their stuff. It's well made and reliable. But if you look at Global's press release regarding Airtronics, it's pretty clear that Sanwa severed the business relationship between them and chose to pull out of the American market for now. Serpent comes across as just a reseller hoping to make a quick dollar off of loyal Airtronics users. Sanwa may show back up again in a year or two with an updated product line and a new distributor. But who knows? Maybe the market is too saturated for this many brands to be profitable. Hitec seems to have gotten kicked to the curb, its only real selling point being a multi-protocol radio. So that leaves us with the high end of Futaba and JR, the doodad laden Spektrum line, and the cheap FRsky and Turnigy stuff.
#28
I got the impression that Sanwa is the real culprit here, not Global. I too am a longtime Airtronics user with the RDS8000 being my first 2.4ghz radio and replaced by the SD10G a couple of years later. But Airtronics has not come out with any kind of innovation since the SD10G, and even it didn't have any new features that weren't already pretty much standard on all 10 channel radios. Sanwa has refused to develop telemetry and voice prompts even though the market has made it obvious that they are desirable features. After releasing the SD10G, Sanwa just sat back and cashed the checks until their products became obsolete. I like their stuff. It's well made and reliable. But if you look at Global's press release regarding Airtronics, it's pretty clear that Sanwa severed the business relationship between them and chose to pull out of the American market for now. Serpent comes across as just a reseller hoping to make a quick dollar off of loyal Airtronics users. Sanwa may show back up again in a year or two with an updated product line and a new distributor. But who knows? Maybe the market is too saturated for this many brands to be profitable. Hitec seems to have gotten kicked to the curb, its only real selling point being a multi-protocol radio. So that leaves us with the high end of Futaba and JR, the doodad laden Spektrum line, and the cheap FRsky and Turnigy stuff.
I also understand that Sanwa has thrown all their energy toward the R/C car radio market.
Mike
#29
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Agree with Sanwa being the culprit - as I said in an earlier post - I have always found Global responsive and reasonable. Airtronics was one of the industries pioneers and has always had a loyal following even if they did stray toward the surface equipment over the years. Love my SD10 (s) and feel they have always been a superior product perhaps thanks to a guy named Mike Greenshields over at HP/Global. Understand that Mike had something to do with the SD10 programming.
Sanwa is shooting themselves in the foot however if they think they can sell anything without a stocking/servicing US distributor. I'm hoping that my current equipment lasts long enough until they realize this!
Sanwa is shooting themselves in the foot however if they think they can sell anything without a stocking/servicing US distributor. I'm hoping that my current equipment lasts long enough until they realize this!
I got the impression that Sanwa is the real culprit here, not Global. I too am a longtime Airtronics user with the RDS8000 being my first 2.4ghz radio and replaced by the SD10G a couple of years later. But Airtronics has not come out with any kind of innovation since the SD10G, and even it didn't have any new features that weren't already pretty much standard on all 10 channel radios. Sanwa has refused to develop telemetry and voice prompts even though the market has made it obvious that they are desirable features. After releasing the SD10G, Sanwa just sat back and cashed the checks until their products became obsolete. I like their stuff. It's well made and reliable. But if you look at Global's press release regarding Airtronics, it's pretty clear that Sanwa severed the business relationship between them and chose to pull out of the American market for now. Serpent comes across as just a reseller hoping to make a quick dollar off of loyal Airtronics users. Sanwa may show back up again in a year or two with an updated product line and a new distributor. But who knows? Maybe the market is too saturated for this many brands to be profitable. Hitec seems to have gotten kicked to the curb, its only real selling point being a multi-protocol radio. So that leaves us with the high end of Futaba and JR, the doodad laden Spektrum line, and the cheap FRsky and Turnigy stuff.
#30
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The culprit was indeed Sanwa. I called and talked to Mike G. at Hobby People and he said that Sanwa feels that sales of Airtronics is no longer worth them supporting the US market. So they have pulled out and are concentrating on the rest of the world and leaving us hanging. Global/Hobby People are just as much the victims of this as all of us that use Airtronics radios. It's really sad as I've used Airtronics radios since I started flying 20 years ago and I really hate the thought of having to move to something else.
Ken
Ken
#31
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In my case I got back into RC after a long hiatus. In the 80s flew the ubiquitous Futaba gold biomes. My first radio when I got back into it the original DX7 which was a bear to use. So I abandoned it at the same time that Airtronics converted the RD8000 into the 2.4 RDS8000 which was much easier. Futaba did the same with its 7C. At the time I seem to remember that Airtronics was the first to market a Tx without servos and with multiple Rxs - something everybody else has done since. Still have my RDS and have added (2) SD10s, which are even easier to use.
Global incidentally did certify my RDS and the SD for 3 and 2 cell Lipo operation as well as the high end FH3 Rxs. Try that with somebody like mother Futaba and you will get a lame 'we haven't tested it yet' when what they are actually telling you is that they want to sell branded tiny NiCd packs at several $ more than they are worth. The 7C does fine with a 3s Lipo BTW.. While I see that Futaba is slowly upgrading its packs, they are late with this just like they were getting into 2.4. Have to wonder how much market share they lost to Spektrum and others while they played high and mighty?
Global incidentally did certify my RDS and the SD for 3 and 2 cell Lipo operation as well as the high end FH3 Rxs. Try that with somebody like mother Futaba and you will get a lame 'we haven't tested it yet' when what they are actually telling you is that they want to sell branded tiny NiCd packs at several $ more than they are worth. The 7C does fine with a 3s Lipo BTW.. While I see that Futaba is slowly upgrading its packs, they are late with this just like they were getting into 2.4. Have to wonder how much market share they lost to Spektrum and others while they played high and mighty?
#32
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I'm flying two Futaba 9Zs- one 72mHz, one 2.4gHz- that are both 20+ years old. They have been serviced twice in those years by Radio South, new batteries, etc., and IMO are still superior radios to almost everything currently sold today. Despite what some may say, Futaba is good gear. I mean, my Kougar has S148 servos in it, which were discontinued ten or more years ago. They still work just fine.
Anyway... good luck with whatever you end up doing.
.
#33
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Really like running everything on a 2s Lipo, servos especially are noticeably quicker and stronger. Futaba has behind the curve for several years now - last on the 2.4 wagon, and just this month started advertising a HV 18 channel (yeah the $3000 one) . It's about time! Spektrum the opposite always supported HV Rxs and servos, I run my SD10 on 2s both TX and Rx , along with HiTec and Solar servos in my 55cv gassers.
Dear Futaba - HT, HV digital metal gear servos does NOT mean they need to cost $100 or more. Global tested/warrantied the 'Airtronics' FH3 RXs at HV, and they have caused me no problems. Interestingly Sanwa goes back to 6v
Dear Futaba - HT, HV digital metal gear servos does NOT mean they need to cost $100 or more. Global tested/warrantied the 'Airtronics' FH3 RXs at HV, and they have caused me no problems. Interestingly Sanwa goes back to 6v
#34
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#35
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I don't know, I've always used the brands that seems to wind up being the underdog or the ones that end up getting left behind!! Heck, we had a Betamax video recorder growing up!!!! The first radio that my dad and I bought was made by MRC. So I guess those should have been some premonitions!!!!!
Ken
Ken
#36
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Yeah
the radio is $170 at Tower - the usual 10-15% discounts get it down to $150. It is cheaper looking, all plastic, and the stick feel could be better but operationally it'll do a lot of things
the radio is $170 at Tower - the usual 10-15% discounts get it down to $150. It is cheaper looking, all plastic, and the stick feel could be better but operationally it'll do a lot of things
#38
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Frsky Taranis are decent radios with a lot of support on forums and if one buys from a dealer like Aloft they can be serviced by the dealer. I did a little replacement of trim switch myself and it was plug and pl;ay easy. Taranis with 8-32 channels would be difficult to argue with and if only Airtronics had a jr style module it would be easy to convert and slowly move to frsky.
#39
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I'm flying two Futaba 9Zs- one 72mHz, one 2.4gHz- that are both 20+ years old. They have been serviced twice in those years by Radio South, new batteries, etc., and IMO are still superior radios to almost everything currently sold today. Despite what some may say, Futaba is good gear. I mean, my Kougar has S148 servos in it, which were discontinued ten or more years ago. They still work just fine.
Anyway... good luck with whatever you end up doing.
.
Just for information, the S148 servo is still in production. It's one of the best general-purpose servos ever. For almost any purpose where you need a servo with 35-45 oz.-in. of torque, this one's a goodie!
#40
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Never said Futaba was bad gear- just that they have been behind the technology curve and that whatever Has the name 'Futaba' on it likely costs quite a bit more than it needs to. Same could be said about JR and even Airtronics. Have never seen any numbers but you have to wonder how much market share Futaba lost with the run to 2.4.
And yes certainly anything older tends to be built a bit better
And yes certainly anything older tends to be built a bit better
#41
Well I can't afford to get a new radio considering I just bought my SD 10 3 years ago and a new transmitter tray for it. My friend has a Jetti and that is one nice radio, but not cheap. This really sucks and is becoming more prevalent in the industry. Look how fast companies like Tower and H9 discontinue ARFS and parts for them. If it's just a broken switch or something minor like that I fix it myself. Guess I am not going to invest in any more receivers now.
#42
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Frsky was one of the first to market with telemetry and it is a game changer if you have never used it before. Always know the voltage or any other parameter of the aircraft you are flying.
Frsky is a bit less plug and play than Futaba or Spektrum largely because the FrSky system is so much more powerful. There is a wizard built in to assist in set up.
#43
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I have flown Frsky for years. Great radios, awesome features, nice quality and very affordable. Practically any part is available for the end user to purchase at very fair prices. Transmitter cases, screens, gimbals, switches, everthing available. I just replaced my transmitter antenna, took all of 15 min and the part was $3.00.
Frsky was one of the first to market with telemetry and it is a game changer if you have never used it before. Always know the voltage or any other parameter of the aircraft you are flying.
Frsky is a bit less plug and play than Futaba or Spektrum largely because the FrSky system is so much more powerful. There is a wizard built in to assist in set up.
Frsky was one of the first to market with telemetry and it is a game changer if you have never used it before. Always know the voltage or any other parameter of the aircraft you are flying.
Frsky is a bit less plug and play than Futaba or Spektrum largely because the FrSky system is so much more powerful. There is a wizard built in to assist in set up.
JR/Spektrum has gone through too many protocol changes over the years for my liking. If I have my count right they did 3 changes of protocol changes so far in the time that we have had 2.4 ghz radios. I reviewed the very first JR 9303 that ever came out. They upgraded that to the DSMx for me for free. I keep that around so that I can fly any small E-Flite stuff I may buy. But past that I won't do anything with JR/Spektrum.
In my mind Futaba is kind of like John Deere lawn equipment. They make good equipment, but you are paying a premium for the name on the front of it. Take the name off of it and it's still great quality equipment but at a much cheaper price. I don't like paying for a name. If I have to buy a higher channel count radio, I can live with Futaba. I do have a 9TCAP now that I have had for reviews for a long time. I think that it's overly complicated to program, and what I have seen of my buddies that Futaba 14 and 18 channel radios it seems that they are still complicated to program, especially when you compare them to the Airtronics.
So, that brings me back to the FrSky. I really am intrigued by the idea of being able to upgrade my own firmware in the radio (that's the IT guy in me talking). There is a huge following that really love these radios, especially in the drone world. So there must be something there.
I'll just have to cross that bridge when I get there.
Ken
#44
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Also have [2] SD10s and one RDS8000. My first 2.4 however was an early DX7 - didn't have any trouble with it but it had poor programming IMO [they have since changed it] - too hard to use. Enter Airtronics with the 2.4 conversion of the RD8000 and what i thought to be a neat little marketing trick - no servos but 2 Rxs at less than $200. My RDS8000 is still working flawlessly although I only keep it for backup. The SD10 has a much improved user interface, the easiest to use IMO despite the additional features. Have never had any failures or real issues with either of my SDs. Have a total of 11 FH1 and FH3 receivers and a fleet of usually 8 or 9 airplanes.
What got me on this forum was an email from Desoto telling me to send my radios back to Japan to get them serviced - something I have done every year with Global as a strictly precautionary measure. How can Desoto claim to be a distributor of anything without parts/service! Global was great - easy to deal with and reasonable in service costs - but sending a $300 radio back to Japan for simple service is ridiculous. Have no plans to abandon my Airtronics investment right now and can only hope that either Sanwa changes its attitude and/or somebody like Radio South can do the service. Its looking to me like Sanwa is wanting out of the air radios and would rather concentrate on the surface stuff?
What got me on this forum was an email from Desoto telling me to send my radios back to Japan to get them serviced - something I have done every year with Global as a strictly precautionary measure. How can Desoto claim to be a distributor of anything without parts/service! Global was great - easy to deal with and reasonable in service costs - but sending a $300 radio back to Japan for simple service is ridiculous. Have no plans to abandon my Airtronics investment right now and can only hope that either Sanwa changes its attitude and/or somebody like Radio South can do the service. Its looking to me like Sanwa is wanting out of the air radios and would rather concentrate on the surface stuff?
#45
It's sad to see a great company leave. They did make a big mistake IMO, in making one great radio, and then they stoppped. I am sure that many users were waiting for a upgrade, and never got one. Kind of like hitec, which was mentioned, but they will likely stay alive, because they have a big market in chargers and servos.
Spektrum have gone through protocol changes, but atleast dsm2 is compatible with dsmx. They are obviously very popular because of all the bnf options.
Futaba has not gone through any protocol changes, but they have 2 incompatible protocols. They claim its 2, but realisticly it's 4 incompatible "signals". That is kind of annoying, and certianly confuses anyone new to the hobby looking at futaba stuff. Don't get me wrong, I think futaba make great gear, and was considering switching over to their radios, and still am thinking about it. I do have a bit invested into other receivers, and that's the only thing keeping me from switching.
Frsky, I have never seen one here in Canada, and don't really have a opinion on them. Looks to be some decent stuff, and there are more and more people usig them.
Spektrum have gone through protocol changes, but atleast dsm2 is compatible with dsmx. They are obviously very popular because of all the bnf options.
Futaba has not gone through any protocol changes, but they have 2 incompatible protocols. They claim its 2, but realisticly it's 4 incompatible "signals". That is kind of annoying, and certianly confuses anyone new to the hobby looking at futaba stuff. Don't get me wrong, I think futaba make great gear, and was considering switching over to their radios, and still am thinking about it. I do have a bit invested into other receivers, and that's the only thing keeping me from switching.
Frsky, I have never seen one here in Canada, and don't really have a opinion on them. Looks to be some decent stuff, and there are more and more people usig them.
#46
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Spektrum is the top brand for two reasons. First, they were first to market with the 2.4 protocol which most RC pilots wanted. That also let them be the default brand for the (then) new bind and fly craze. Second, they listen to their customers and develop features that people want. Hitec gave us telemetry, so Spektrum was the next one to provide it. I don't know who started the talking radio thing, but Spektrum definitely is known for it now. We wanted more channels, more programming versatility, and more model memories, so Spektrum provided them. Once JR went their own way for a 2.4 protocol, Spektrum was free to make bigger radios with more features. They've done a very good job watching the market and giving it what it wants. I'm no fan of their stuff because of the quality, but you can't deny that the features are great.
The brand that has me excited currently is Graupner. The feature list is off the charts, and they are well made radios. I think they are poised to step into the spot previously owned by Airtronics of a top quality radio without the double page ads in every magazine and a bargain price.
The brand that has me excited currently is Graupner. The feature list is off the charts, and they are well made radios. I think they are poised to step into the spot previously owned by Airtronics of a top quality radio without the double page ads in every magazine and a bargain price.
#47
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Graupner has been around for a very long time. And IIRC, their radios were made by Futaba. But Graupner changed some years back, they quit offering those fabulous nylon/whatever props, so I have no clue who makes their gear now.
OK, I know that inexpensive, rather simple radios can do whatever a sport pilot needs. Fact is, I got those 9Zs decades ago because I needed their excellent programs and features for helicopters; most importantly, tail rotor mixing... long before "automatic"/heading hold gyros were even a dream. I started the hobby with planks and four and six channel Futaba "golden" radios (4FG & 6FG); they were most excellent.
Anyway, sorry to hear you Airtronics guys now have orphans. I hope you can all figure out what you need to do to keep flying.
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#48
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#50
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Yeah. The S148 photo on Tower's web site shows it has the old, split bracket that takes the one piece grommets. I almost bought four of them this morning; its a doggone shame when you have to do this to four servos so they will stay ready-to-install when you need them to...
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