AMA and the World Drone Championchips in Hawaii.
10-20-2016, 02:33 PM
#26
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...on-update.html
10-20-2016, 02:35 PM
#27
Ok , So now that it's been established that this thread actually has nothing to do with the AMA , I will ask all the readers to disregard my posts asking about compliance with AMA document #550 , FPV operations . When I saw the title "AMA and the World Drone Championships" I naturally thought that if the AMA was involved in sanctioning this event that the Spotter would be needed . Are you sure this isn't a sanctioned event?
So I guess now I gotta ask , AMA or not , in U.S. airspace , is it OK with the FAA to fly hobby classified UAS beyond the operator's line of sight ? Isn't that a bit of what part 107 is supposed to be dealing with ?
10-20-2016, 02:42 PM
#28
These as well...all on the front page of the AMA Forum, having nothing to do with the AMA. There are more on page 3 and 4,
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-discussions-74/11633257-finally-some-good-drones-news.html
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...ts-owners.html
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...ghts-case.html
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...32742-why.html
For that matter the most popular thread in the forum seems to not really be AMA related, it's about drones and drone pilots.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-discussions-74/11605936-another-drone-pilot-does-again.html
Last edited by porcia83; 10-20-2016 at 03:27 PM.
10-20-2016, 03:17 PM
#29
Why does the AMA have anything to do with a commercial endeavor like this? Is AMA insurance in effect for this? When we fly for the movies or a TV commercial or a UAV test we don't call the AMA to see if we are doing it right? And we have separate business insurance.
Sorry if I am getting it wrong I don't see a link and I don't know who is sponsoring it. AMA does not have World Drone Championships unless I missed that
Maybe the nice location explains it?
Sorry if I am getting it wrong I don't see a link and I don't know who is sponsoring it. AMA does not have World Drone Championships unless I missed that
Maybe the nice location explains it?
Who said this was a commercial endeavor? How are the operating a business for profit there? What does sponsorship have anything to do with AMA coverage/sanctions? How is this any different than any traditional fixed wing flying event where up to $100,000 dollars and cash and prizes is handed out? Actually, in this case, there are also fixed wing aircraft participation in this event, does that change your concern at all about the AMA being involved?
init, I google a drone world championship and the only thing from HI I see is this:
http://droneworlds.com/faqs/
And right in the FAQ :
Do I need an AMA pilot license if I'm from another country?
Yes you will need a Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) license in order to fly and compete in the World Championships. It is mandatory as the World Championships are officially sanctioned by the AMA. It also is your insurance coverage for all events that you will compete.
Look at the part I underlined....why are we insuring this commercial operation?
I don't care about the Basketweaving World Championship either, but we should not be insuring it either.
http://droneworlds.com/faqs/
And right in the FAQ :
Do I need an AMA pilot license if I'm from another country?
Yes you will need a Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) license in order to fly and compete in the World Championships. It is mandatory as the World Championships are officially sanctioned by the AMA. It also is your insurance coverage for all events that you will compete.
Look at the part I underlined....why are we insuring this commercial operation?
I don't care about the Basketweaving World Championship either, but we should not be insuring it either.
http://www.tucsonaerobaticshootout.com/
$100,000 in cash and prizes, similar to the MR racing events with cash prizes. Here's the interesting part:
$50.00 fee to pay for camping space. Not a donation, not "suggested"...but a charge. Worse though, they actually charge for spectators. Can you imagine? $5.00 a head, and $10.00 a car. Who charges admission to watch a fly in? Wonder if they claim that as income and pay taxes on it.
So which sounds more like a commercial operation to you? A flying event where it's free to park and watch MR and fixed wing aircraft race for possible cash prizes, or a flying event that charges parking fees, and admission fees? Oh, all of their sponsors were commercial entities too.
I know I won't get a response, but lets be fair here, if we're going to call MR/FPV racing a commercial operation because of cash prizes and who is sponsoring them....you might open a huge old can of worms here when I can point to well more than one similar fixed wing event that is exactly the same, if anything worse because they charge spectators.
10-20-2016, 03:22 PM
#30
Man this thread has more twists & turns than a mountain road !
Anyway , if the AMA is actually sanctioning this event doesn't that mean it should have stayed in the AMA forum ? Are they or aren't they (we , us , the AMA) sanctioning the event or not ?
I will admit to getting a bit of a chuckle over the "AMA Pilot's License" , I think an AMA card may have had words to that effect years ago on it , but anytime during modern times I always saw it referred to just as a 'Membership card" with no lofty Pilot's License connotation attached to it .
PS , so there Porcia , if it is an AMA event , I do agree with you that it should be in the AMA forum , Imagine that I actually agreed with you here .
BUT !!!!!!
If it IS an AMA event then I still decry the lack of Spotters !!!!
Anyway , if the AMA is actually sanctioning this event doesn't that mean it should have stayed in the AMA forum ? Are they or aren't they (we , us , the AMA) sanctioning the event or not ?
I will admit to getting a bit of a chuckle over the "AMA Pilot's License" , I think an AMA card may have had words to that effect years ago on it , but anytime during modern times I always saw it referred to just as a 'Membership card" with no lofty Pilot's License connotation attached to it .
PS , so there Porcia , if it is an AMA event , I do agree with you that it should be in the AMA forum , Imagine that I actually agreed with you here .
BUT !!!!!!
If it IS an AMA event then I still decry the lack of Spotters !!!!
Last edited by init4fun; 10-20-2016 at 03:34 PM.
10-20-2016, 03:29 PM
#31
Hi Matt , Thank You for your response to me . In and among all the twists & turns in this thread the point you raise is a very good point indeed and is something I've thought about for some time now ; Just how close can we (the AMA) get with these type of commercial operations before we excessively blur the line between being a 501c VS being a for profit enterprise ? I have long feared that if the commercial side ever became TOO highly lucrative that we non profit traditionalists would be left in the dust of the mad rush to cash in on the commercial side by the AMA becoming the insurance agent for all UAS operations both commercial and hobby related .
http://www.tucsonaerobaticshootout.com/
Last edited by porcia83; 10-20-2016 at 03:32 PM.
10-20-2016, 03:43 PM
#32
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Man this thread has more twists & turns than a mountain road !
Anyway , if the AMA is actually sanctioning this event doesn't that mean it should have stayed in the AMA forum ? Are they or aren't they (we , us , the AMA) sanctioning the event or not ?
I will admit to getting a bit of a chuckle over the "AMA Pilot's License" , I think an AMA card may have had words to that effect years ago on it , but anytime during modern times I always saw it referred to just as a 'Membership card" with no lofty Pilot's License connotation attached to it .
PS , so there Porcia , if it is an AMA event , I do agree with you that it should be in the AMA forum , Imagine that I actually agreed with you here .
BUT !!!!!!
If it IS an AMA event then I still decry the lack of Spotters !!!!
Anyway , if the AMA is actually sanctioning this event doesn't that mean it should have stayed in the AMA forum ? Are they or aren't they (we , us , the AMA) sanctioning the event or not ?
I will admit to getting a bit of a chuckle over the "AMA Pilot's License" , I think an AMA card may have had words to that effect years ago on it , but anytime during modern times I always saw it referred to just as a 'Membership card" with no lofty Pilot's License connotation attached to it .
PS , so there Porcia , if it is an AMA event , I do agree with you that it should be in the AMA forum , Imagine that I actually agreed with you here .
BUT !!!!!!
If it IS an AMA event then I still decry the lack of Spotters !!!!
Now the license thing shows just how much the "droners" know about the organization. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. BUT lets remember they are our future.
Mike
: AMA and the World Drone Championships in Hawaii.
Last edited by rcmiket; 10-20-2016 at 03:47 PM.
10-20-2016, 04:02 PM
#33
So what are you thoughts about this operation? Do you think this is something to be concerned about from a commercial standpoint, especially the fees they are charging for spectators and parking? (wonder if this sudden discussion about the AMA gets this moved back, lol).
http://www.tucsonaerobaticshootout.com/
http://www.tucsonaerobaticshootout.com/
10-20-2016, 04:04 PM
#34
Seems to me that the title is what got this moved, It ain't a AMA event. Pretty simple.
Now the license thing shows just how much the "droners" know about the organization. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. BUT lets remember they are our future.
Mike
: AMA and the World Drone Championships in Hawaii.
Now the license thing shows just how much the "droners" know about the organization. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. BUT lets remember they are our future.
Mike
: AMA and the World Drone Championships in Hawaii.
10-20-2016, 04:12 PM
#35
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The title of this thread IMPLIES it's a AMA event. That's the issue here. Since they require a "license" than they should have to abide by the associated safety rules associated with that "license" would they not?
From your posts you seem to indicate you feel they are not.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 10-20-2016 at 04:19 PM.
10-20-2016, 04:27 PM
#36
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http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/med...er-11-13-2016/
Now this is a AMA sponsored drone deal. Unfortunately there's a price for admission even just to watch or talk to the AMA folks who'll attend.
I was planning on attending until I saw the fees to get in.
Mike
Now this is a AMA sponsored drone deal. Unfortunately there's a price for admission even just to watch or talk to the AMA folks who'll attend.
I was planning on attending until I saw the fees to get in.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 10-20-2016 at 04:30 PM.
10-20-2016, 04:38 PM
#37
Matt's link is to something saying you need a AMA "license" ( whatever that is). Just where does it say it's a AMA sanctioned or sponsored event?
The title of this thread IMPLIES it's a AMA event. That's the issue here. Since they require a "license" than they should have to abide by the associated safety rules associated with that "license" would they not?
From your posts you seem to indicate you feel they are not.
Mike
The title of this thread IMPLIES it's a AMA event. That's the issue here. Since they require a "license" than they should have to abide by the associated safety rules associated with that "license" would they not?
From your posts you seem to indicate you feel they are not.
Mike
Hi Mike , Yes Sir if they are AMA sanctioned then yes I do believe they are not following the safety rules because I saw no spotters where those drones were flying . That's one of the reasons I'd like to know for sure whether this is or is not an AMA event . If it is indeed an AMA event and if God forbid an accident did badly injure someone , would the AMA's insurance carrier pay when the AMA itself stepped outside of it's own safety code for this event ?
10-20-2016, 05:18 PM
#38
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Hi Mike , Yes Sir if they are AMA sanctioned then yes I do believe they are not following the safety rules because I saw no spotters where those drones were flying . That's one of the reasons I'd like to know for sure whether this is or is not an AMA event . If it is indeed an AMA event and if God forbid an accident did badly injure someone , would the AMA's insurance carrier pay when the AMA itself stepped outside of it's own safety code for this event ?
Mike
10-20-2016, 05:18 PM
#39
Hi Mike , Yes Sir if they are AMA sanctioned then yes I do believe they are not following the safety rules because I saw no spotters where those drones were flying . That's one of the reasons I'd like to know for sure whether this is or is not an AMA event . If it is indeed an AMA event and if God forbid an accident did badly injure someone , would the AMA's insurance carrier pay when the AMA itself stepped outside of it's own safety code for this event ?
obviously when these drone guys speak of an AMA license they mean AMA membership. They even come out and say it is the AMA insurance that is covering them.
What about their homeowners insurance....think homeowners would pay off if they knew you injured someone performing your job of flying drones? of course not and the AMA should not cover this either.
These guys are getting paid to fly, at least some of them have admitted so on camera at other drone events. What, ESPN cannot afford insurance? are they now running charitable, not for profit events?
Look at this from the AMA membership manual:
• The policy does not cover business pursuits: that is any activity that
generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses.
This business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members
providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
Why in the world is our 501c3 charitable organization subsidize the insurance of a "for profit" televised sporting event covering paid professional pilots??
Last edited by mr_matt; 10-20-2016 at 05:21 PM.
10-20-2016, 05:33 PM
#40
No offense but why get hung up on the "AMA sanction" part of this?
obviously when these drone guys speak of an AMA license they mean AMA membership. They even come out and say it is the AMA insurance that is covering them.
What about their homeowners insurance....think homeowners would pay off if they knew you injured someone performing your job of flying drones? of course not and the AMA should not cover this either.
These guys are getting paid to fly, at least some of them have admitted so on camera at other drone events. What, ESPN cannot afford insurance? are they now running charitable, not for profit events?
Look at this from the AMA membership manual:
• The policy does not cover business pursuits: that is any activity that
generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses.
This business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members
providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
Why in the world is our 501c3 charitable organization subsidize the insurance of a "for profit" televised sporting event covering paid professional pilots??
obviously when these drone guys speak of an AMA license they mean AMA membership. They even come out and say it is the AMA insurance that is covering them.
What about their homeowners insurance....think homeowners would pay off if they knew you injured someone performing your job of flying drones? of course not and the AMA should not cover this either.
These guys are getting paid to fly, at least some of them have admitted so on camera at other drone events. What, ESPN cannot afford insurance? are they now running charitable, not for profit events?
Look at this from the AMA membership manual:
• The policy does not cover business pursuits: that is any activity that
generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses.
This business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members
providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
Why in the world is our 501c3 charitable organization subsidize the insurance of a "for profit" televised sporting event covering paid professional pilots??
Hi Matt , No offense taken whatsoever and in fact I appreciate you taking the time to talk about this with me . My wonder about the AMA sanction is because if these flyers are counting on AMA insurance they may find that lacking if the insurance company knows that certain parts of the safety code weren't being followed , namely the apparently absent spotters . But I guess your right if it's sanctioned or not would that make any difference as to whether the insurance would be voided by the no #550 required spotters ?
10-20-2016, 05:34 PM
#41
Hi Mike , Yes Sir if they are AMA sanctioned then yes I do believe they are not following the safety rules because I saw no spotters where those drones were flying . That's one of the reasons I'd like to know for sure whether this is or is not an AMA event . If it is indeed an AMA event and if God forbid an accident did badly injure someone , would the AMA's insurance carrier pay when the AMA itself stepped outside of it's own safety code for this event ?
10-20-2016, 05:38 PM
#42
Seems to me that the title is what got this moved, It ain't a AMA event. Pretty simple.
Now the license thing shows just how much the "droners" know about the organization. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. BUT lets remember they are our future.
Mike
: AMA and the World Drone Championships in Hawaii.
Now the license thing shows just how much the "droners" know about the organization. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. BUT lets remember they are our future.
Mike
: AMA and the World Drone Championships in Hawaii.
Sarcasm aside it's good to see that you are coming around to the fact that MR/Drones are part of the future of the hobby. 200 pilots from over 30 countries is a pretty good indicator of what's going on. Don't know about spectator count yet though, but I know they aren't charged to watch.
10-20-2016, 05:38 PM
#43
The "business pursuits" of it is also troubling. Does the AMA not know about this event? I cant believe they don't know what is going on. Are they so seduced by this that they overlook these issues?
10-20-2016, 05:46 PM
#44
I will have to say that the dividing line would be who is profiting and how much ? Was the AMA profiting beyond the cost of running the events and if so how was that money applied , doing more non profit work I hope ? You see Porcia , sometimes a question is just that , a question of just how close is too close and yes that applies to closeness regarding ALL the operations of this sort no matter the type of RC aircraft . I sure do hope like Hell our (the AMA's) Lawyers and business people are very aware of where the line is .
10-20-2016, 05:52 PM
#45
Yes I agree they must abide by the safety code including the document #550. In my experience, not a one of them follow this at my field, and we have yet to be able to have an AMA sanctioned event because of disagreements over this and other safety issues surrounding the FPV type folks.
The "business pursuits" of it is also troubling. Does the AMA not know about this event? I cant believe they don't know what is going on. Are they so seduced by this that they overlook these issues?
The "business pursuits" of it is also troubling. Does the AMA not know about this event? I cant believe they don't know what is going on. Are they so seduced by this that they overlook these issues?
If I'm not mistaken your club has been visited several times by FAA "inspectors" and there wasn't really an explanation as to why. Perhaps folks not following clearly established rules and regs and not being dealt with by the club turns out to be the reason? Maybe someone from the club ratted someone out? Does your club have a process in place to deal with rule-breakers?
Is sanctioning an event suddenly akin to being seduced by the event? Do you really expect the AMA to see a 2 minute video that was placed on Youtube? You might want to check in with Flyingwalenda as he provided the second hand report on what was going on down there. He seemed to have a pretty positive outlook on this event, as well as the one in NY earlier this year.
10-20-2016, 05:58 PM
#46
No offense but why get hung up on the "AMA sanction" part of this?
obviously when these drone guys speak of an AMA license they mean AMA membership. They even come out and say it is the AMA insurance that is covering them.
What about their homeowners insurance....think homeowners would pay off if they knew you injured someone performing your job of flying drones? of course not and the AMA should not cover this either.
These guys are getting paid to fly, at least some of them have admitted so on camera at other drone events. What, ESPN cannot afford insurance? are they now running charitable, not for profit events?
Look at this from the AMA membership manual:
• The policy does not cover business pursuits: that is any activity that
generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses.
This business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members
providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
Why in the world is our 501c3 charitable organization subsidize the insurance of a "for profit" televised sporting event covering paid professional pilots??
obviously when these drone guys speak of an AMA license they mean AMA membership. They even come out and say it is the AMA insurance that is covering them.
What about their homeowners insurance....think homeowners would pay off if they knew you injured someone performing your job of flying drones? of course not and the AMA should not cover this either.
These guys are getting paid to fly, at least some of them have admitted so on camera at other drone events. What, ESPN cannot afford insurance? are they now running charitable, not for profit events?
Look at this from the AMA membership manual:
• The policy does not cover business pursuits: that is any activity that
generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses.
This business pursuit exclusion does not apply to individual members
providing modeling instructions for pay to AMA members.
Why in the world is our 501c3 charitable organization subsidize the insurance of a "for profit" televised sporting event covering paid professional pilots??
10-21-2016, 05:37 AM
#47
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Here's a interesting item. People here along with the AMA have suggested that Drone this and that is such a big deal and such a huge part of the AMA's future but no drone related flying events are listed in the event section of MA.
Mike
Mike
10-21-2016, 06:27 AM
#48
Hard to follow that line of reason, wasn't really the question I asked. How did the AMA get classified as this events sponsor? It looks like they sanctioned, how does that translate to sponsorship? I asked you about the TusconShootOut and their fees. That's the event that is identical in function/form as the MR FPV racers, except they are charging even more money and it's a safe assumption the are profiting from that as well. I'd have to guess if the MR racers are suddenly held to a commercial standard because they give out prize money, the fixed wing/heli events would be as well. Makes sense right?
BUT !
I said what I said and it means what it means , I have long been concerned since way back when when the whole "sponsored pilot" thing went beyond the manufacturers giving a few freebies for a bit of product placement advertising to actually hiring the pilot *. Prize money OTOH has always been fine with me no matter the aircraft type since winning is not an assured thing and thus no pre arrainged contract for payment was made . You win the event you take the money . Now from at least one post to this thread it sure sounded to me like at least some pilots were being paid for their presence at this event . Even if the payments are to cover expenses only and don't result in actual profit for the pilot , isn't the very act of the company sponsors paying for their attendance of the event a commercial transaction since the company is paying money and receiving advertising exposure in return ?
* And yes Porcia , in case you somehow got THIS far and still missed it , my concern of this predates both multicopters and FPV !
10-21-2016, 06:30 AM
#49
So what are you thoughts about this operation? Do you think this is something to be concerned about from a commercial standpoint, especially the fees they are charging for spectators and parking? (wonder if this sudden discussion about the AMA gets this moved back, lol).
http://www.tucsonaerobaticshootout.com/
http://www.tucsonaerobaticshootout.com/
Lets remember , this is your question I was answering , the question of how close is too close WRT commercial VS non profit operations , and I do believe your question has now been adequately addressed .
10-21-2016, 06:30 AM
#50
Now give the rest of the story...what's posted up in the events section? Does it look fully updated and goes it match the ma mag listing (uh oh, more complaints to follow). Gotta love the continued denial stance in spite of reality. That whole tilting and windmills comes to mind.