Building a runway
09-27-2004, 02:52 PM
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RE: Building a runway
OK:
DavePam:
We'll probably go with staples.I was just looking for an alternative to so many staples.Especially at the seams where two meet.So staples it will be.
Dave Johansen:
If wind blows that hard,yes it can pull it up unless there's a solid line of staples all the way down the edges.The edges must be protected by some means to keep the wind from getting under it.
We had a week of 20-30 mph winds last summer and it pulled half of it up.The edges were not protected very well and the washout underneath had left the mat like an inch from the dirt in some places and it was a great opening for the wind to get under and catch it.And it did for sure.If you can protect the edges the rest will be fine.Dang,you must live in the mountains for wind to blow that hard...I'm not a windy flier so that would put an end to my flying.
Another thing I thought of this morning.I had the mat delivered to the site.The rolls are 18ft wide..After laying three rolls across the runway,Man,that look like a lot of mat.That would make a runway 50 something foot wide.I'm thinking that two rolls totalling 35 ft wide would be wide enough.If I can miss a 50 ft wide runway,I can also miss a 35 footer.LOL.
How wide are most of you guys runways????
Thanx
Walt
DavePam:
We'll probably go with staples.I was just looking for an alternative to so many staples.Especially at the seams where two meet.So staples it will be.
Dave Johansen:
If wind blows that hard,yes it can pull it up unless there's a solid line of staples all the way down the edges.The edges must be protected by some means to keep the wind from getting under it.
We had a week of 20-30 mph winds last summer and it pulled half of it up.The edges were not protected very well and the washout underneath had left the mat like an inch from the dirt in some places and it was a great opening for the wind to get under and catch it.And it did for sure.If you can protect the edges the rest will be fine.Dang,you must live in the mountains for wind to blow that hard...I'm not a windy flier so that would put an end to my flying.
Another thing I thought of this morning.I had the mat delivered to the site.The rolls are 18ft wide..After laying three rolls across the runway,Man,that look like a lot of mat.That would make a runway 50 something foot wide.I'm thinking that two rolls totalling 35 ft wide would be wide enough.If I can miss a 50 ft wide runway,I can also miss a 35 footer.LOL.
How wide are most of you guys runways????
Thanx
Walt
09-27-2004, 02:59 PM
#52
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RE: Building a runway
Mike:
That #2019 sounds like some mitey expensive stuff.I think yall can do better than that unless yall have to order from Bagdad.I'm sure your paying shipping but construction companies handle that stuff locally where you are.It just goes by different names.525 vs 315 is quiet a difference and our rolls are 18 ft by 308ft.
I'll get the name off one of our rolls and post what ours is called altho' it's all basically the same.
Walt
That #2019 sounds like some mitey expensive stuff.I think yall can do better than that unless yall have to order from Bagdad.I'm sure your paying shipping but construction companies handle that stuff locally where you are.It just goes by different names.525 vs 315 is quiet a difference and our rolls are 18 ft by 308ft.
I'll get the name off one of our rolls and post what ours is called altho' it's all basically the same.
Walt
09-27-2004, 06:16 PM
#53
RE: Building a runway
Our runway is 45'x500'. I would make it 300' long before I made it 30' wide. We have guys go off the side all the time. It's rare for someone to go off the end.
The wind blows all the time here. Ours is stapled down every two inches. The wind dosn't bother it. Now that the bermuda grass has covered the edges a tornado would have a hard time getting it up.
David
The wind blows all the time here. Ours is stapled down every two inches. The wind dosn't bother it. Now that the bermuda grass has covered the edges a tornado would have a hard time getting it up.
David
10-28-2004, 06:07 AM
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RE: Building a runway
We'll be laying our plastic runway starting this morning.I'll take pix of the progress as it goes if any of you are interested in the "How Too's". This is our second being that we just relocated to a new field.
We looked into the other alternatives and just didn't have the money so went with the plastic at $315 a roll (18X308). WE had good luck at the other field with the same material.
We decided to go narrower with this runway. The plastic alone will be 35 1/2 X 400.
If any of you are interested or will be using this stuff let me know and I'll ablige.
Thanx
Walt
We looked into the other alternatives and just didn't have the money so went with the plastic at $315 a roll (18X308). WE had good luck at the other field with the same material.
We decided to go narrower with this runway. The plastic alone will be 35 1/2 X 400.
If any of you are interested or will be using this stuff let me know and I'll ablige.
Thanx
Walt
10-28-2004, 08:46 AM
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RE: Building a runway
Hey Walt
Let me know how the installation goes. I am trying to convince our small club to go this way as well. Might help to change a few minds.
Let me know how the installation goes. I am trying to convince our small club to go this way as well. Might help to change a few minds.
10-28-2004, 08:47 PM
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RE: Building a runway
Dave,
Thanx for your interest....
Too my complete surprise and others we got the whole thing down in 6 hours.Started at daybreak this morning,worked till one,went back bout four and finished.We still have just little stuff and finishing touches to do but man,does it look great.
We put one down three years ago and were just learning and it worked out well.Had a little washout under the mat but it took a few days to get it down.A ton of stretching lengthwise and then stretching across.This time we hooked the tractor to the rolls after they were rolled mostly out and started pullin on it lengthwise with the tractor.This eliminated haveing to stretch it by hand lengthwise. Saved a whole bunch of time and raw knuckles.Once it was stretched out with the tractor it was just a matter of taking care of the edge,and that went really quick.There was 12 of us,two or three talked more than worked but it all came together and it really looks nice. I would suggest this for any club that don't have the funds for cement or asphalt.We just couldn't afford that trip so went with the mat.The big secret is the substrate that you put it on. I've heard of clubs putting it directly on the grass but I don't think I'd go that route,haven't tried that but don't think I would.
So we have two 36X400 runways complete.Mat was a total of $1575 (five rolls @ $315 per roll) and the staples were like $60 a box of 500 (large,long legged (8 inch) staples)
I'll try to put a pix on here but have had trouble putting pix on here before.If you would like some pix send me your email addy and I'll email them to you.Any questions just ask on here or by email. [email protected]
Thanx again
Walt
Thanx for your interest....
Too my complete surprise and others we got the whole thing down in 6 hours.Started at daybreak this morning,worked till one,went back bout four and finished.We still have just little stuff and finishing touches to do but man,does it look great.
We put one down three years ago and were just learning and it worked out well.Had a little washout under the mat but it took a few days to get it down.A ton of stretching lengthwise and then stretching across.This time we hooked the tractor to the rolls after they were rolled mostly out and started pullin on it lengthwise with the tractor.This eliminated haveing to stretch it by hand lengthwise. Saved a whole bunch of time and raw knuckles.Once it was stretched out with the tractor it was just a matter of taking care of the edge,and that went really quick.There was 12 of us,two or three talked more than worked but it all came together and it really looks nice. I would suggest this for any club that don't have the funds for cement or asphalt.We just couldn't afford that trip so went with the mat.The big secret is the substrate that you put it on. I've heard of clubs putting it directly on the grass but I don't think I'd go that route,haven't tried that but don't think I would.
So we have two 36X400 runways complete.Mat was a total of $1575 (five rolls @ $315 per roll) and the staples were like $60 a box of 500 (large,long legged (8 inch) staples)
I'll try to put a pix on here but have had trouble putting pix on here before.If you would like some pix send me your email addy and I'll email them to you.Any questions just ask on here or by email. [email protected]
Thanx again
Walt
10-29-2004, 02:04 AM
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RE: Building a runway
Have you guys ever thought about just laying down chat and oil? You can roll that pretty flat and after a couple of times of re oiling it, it becomes a lot like asphault.
10-29-2004, 05:13 AM
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RE: Building a runway
I wouldn't say that too loud.If the EPA got a hint of that,any club don't have enough money to get out of that one.Humongous NO<NO.One of our club memeber's wife works for the EPA anyway.
We leased our site on drainage district land and the county really helped us out being that they requested we move from the old location. Any elegal stuff is out the window for sure.
What is chat??
We leased our site on drainage district land and the county really helped us out being that they requested we move from the old location. Any elegal stuff is out the window for sure.
What is chat??
01-11-2005, 07:45 PM
#61
RE: Building a runway
Hi David,
I have been reading with great interest your experiences with Geotex. When I looked up the Amoco Fabrics web site I noticed that the products you used (2006 and 2019) actually have a trade name of ProPex (made by bp British Petroleum) not Geotex. ProPex, Geotex, and Petromat are all geotextiles. I just wanted to make sure that I was looking at the correct product.
Ken
Amoco Fabric
http://www.geotextile.com/products/product.htm#woven
I have been reading with great interest your experiences with Geotex. When I looked up the Amoco Fabrics web site I noticed that the products you used (2006 and 2019) actually have a trade name of ProPex (made by bp British Petroleum) not Geotex. ProPex, Geotex, and Petromat are all geotextiles. I just wanted to make sure that I was looking at the correct product.
Ken
Amoco Fabric
http://www.geotextile.com/products/product.htm#woven
01-11-2005, 07:57 PM
#62
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RE: Building a runway
Ken,
There all about the same material.Just different thicknesses.A guy in Austin sent me a sample of what they put down.It was Amoco and thicker than our Marifi.It was the same weave but just thicker.Use the thickest you can get.Just remember the substrate is priority ONE.It's called a bunch of names....
Thanx
There all about the same material.Just different thicknesses.A guy in Austin sent me a sample of what they put down.It was Amoco and thicker than our Marifi.It was the same weave but just thicker.Use the thickest you can get.Just remember the substrate is priority ONE.It's called a bunch of names....
Thanx
01-12-2005, 11:08 AM
#63
RE: Building a runway
Ken I looked at the chart on the link you sent. It looks like the same thing to me. I will also tell you there is no difference in the longevity of the two we put down. At least not yet. However the thicker stuff we used came on a 15' wide roll and the thinner came on a 12' wide roll. Depending on the size runway you wanted the 15' might be better or worse.
David
David
01-12-2005, 01:27 PM
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RE: Building a runway
Hi:
Let´s se 1.- A member is a member, doesn´t matter what landing strip he uses, also who´s going to check which field each fellow used?? just charge all the same, you can offer two choices for on eprice.
2.- Paved or asphalt runamways are pricey and a lot more expensive to mantain in time, a lot of garden work over it and speccially around.
3.- Every large eventin Us are in grass runamwys, (Top Gun at the Polo field, Extreme Flñight Championship, Joe Nall, etc. ) Any model can operate from the grass. At our club we have grass one and the real runawys for real planes in as´phalt, and no one uses this because it hgurts more the wing tips when you bounce on it.
4.- A well treated grass field is the best. even for jets.
5.- In Chile all the clubs charge you the initial incorporation fee and then a monthly fee that is for the maintainance and some money for save.
If you want to run a field as a bussines, create a club and then you provide the service of the field and maintainance for price a year.
If the members want some other benfits such as better worktables, some roof to protect themselves or their cars from the sun they have to pay extra for that.
Also you can run the clubhouse there, with a nice menu and get into the "restaurant" bussiness also making the club a familiar activity for all the day, also could have some R/c emergency stuff also like prop, fuels, glues, etc. for sale.
good luck
Let´s se 1.- A member is a member, doesn´t matter what landing strip he uses, also who´s going to check which field each fellow used?? just charge all the same, you can offer two choices for on eprice.
2.- Paved or asphalt runamways are pricey and a lot more expensive to mantain in time, a lot of garden work over it and speccially around.
3.- Every large eventin Us are in grass runamwys, (Top Gun at the Polo field, Extreme Flñight Championship, Joe Nall, etc. ) Any model can operate from the grass. At our club we have grass one and the real runawys for real planes in as´phalt, and no one uses this because it hgurts more the wing tips when you bounce on it.
4.- A well treated grass field is the best. even for jets.
5.- In Chile all the clubs charge you the initial incorporation fee and then a monthly fee that is for the maintainance and some money for save.
If you want to run a field as a bussines, create a club and then you provide the service of the field and maintainance for price a year.
If the members want some other benfits such as better worktables, some roof to protect themselves or their cars from the sun they have to pay extra for that.
Also you can run the clubhouse there, with a nice menu and get into the "restaurant" bussiness also making the club a familiar activity for all the day, also could have some R/c emergency stuff also like prop, fuels, glues, etc. for sale.
good luck
01-12-2005, 01:50 PM
#66
RE: Building a runway
TATOLAZO A good grass runway is a good surface but has some drawbacks. 1. We are a small club and the mowing is a hassle. We can let the grass around the runway get a foot tall and still fly. 2. In the winter when the grass is dormant it's like flying from dirt. 3. The airplanes stay clean on the Goetex. Rain or shine. Plus the Geotex wont hurt the plane like pavement.
To each his own I guess but were we live and for the money the Geotex is the best way to go.
David
To each his own I guess but were we live and for the money the Geotex is the best way to go.
David
01-12-2005, 05:23 PM
#67
RE: Building a runway
David, we dropped by the local supplier (Texas Steel Culvert Co.) and got a sample of Amoco woven 2019. Pretty nice having the supplier about 6 miles away. The lady said that it would be in 4 days after we order it and no charge for delivery to the field. Such a deal!
What length staples did you use?
Ken
What length staples did you use?
Ken
01-16-2005, 05:57 PM
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RE: Building a runway
Hi,
A minor deviation if I may. How would / does this material stand up to being used in the pits area? Here in Scotland we have a fairly wet climate, so it would be useful to know how the geotex / petromat etc handles rain and being walked on etc.
For my part, my friend Jim McGlynn and I were instrumental in building the flying site here:
http://www.tomlaird.com/images/west.jpg
Supporting article:
http://www.cap232.demon.co.uk/articl...site/diary.htm
Work was also undertaken by other club members when required.
cheers
Tom Laird
A minor deviation if I may. How would / does this material stand up to being used in the pits area? Here in Scotland we have a fairly wet climate, so it would be useful to know how the geotex / petromat etc handles rain and being walked on etc.
For my part, my friend Jim McGlynn and I were instrumental in building the flying site here:
http://www.tomlaird.com/images/west.jpg
Supporting article:
http://www.cap232.demon.co.uk/articl...site/diary.htm
Work was also undertaken by other club members when required.
cheers
Tom Laird
01-16-2005, 08:04 PM
#71
RE: Building a runway
Hi Jim,
That is a very nice site. I see the wing on the right side of the photo. What is the black shadow on the left?
I have a ProPex 2019 data sheet in my hand and the material is Woven Polypropylene and the sheet indicates that it is non-biodegradable.
I can tell you from experience that walking on Petromat wet or dry is not a problem. We are also going to use it in our pits. Of course you don't want to be driving vehicles on it.
Ken
That is a very nice site. I see the wing on the right side of the photo. What is the black shadow on the left?
I have a ProPex 2019 data sheet in my hand and the material is Woven Polypropylene and the sheet indicates that it is non-biodegradable.
I can tell you from experience that walking on Petromat wet or dry is not a problem. We are also going to use it in our pits. Of course you don't want to be driving vehicles on it.
Ken
01-19-2005, 07:15 PM
#72
RE: Building a runway
Thanks for this thread! I'm in the process of talking with my club about this very product. I have many who are intrested. I had also mentioned asphalt and they didn't say no but where more concerned with removal if the club ever disolved. But this product would be much better just for the fact of pull the pins, roll it up, and move it out.
BTW how would this poduct hold up to a turbine?
BTW how would this poduct hold up to a turbine?
01-19-2005, 08:41 PM
#73
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RE: Building a runway
Cowboy,
I think this material will hold up to any type of plane as long as the substrate under it is smooth the mat will be smooth.Just use a substrate that will not wash out from under the mat. I have some pix on my folder if your interested.email me with subject matter of mat...I'm getting a ton of spam so need to see it's you.
Thanx
Walt
I think this material will hold up to any type of plane as long as the substrate under it is smooth the mat will be smooth.Just use a substrate that will not wash out from under the mat. I have some pix on my folder if your interested.email me with subject matter of mat...I'm getting a ton of spam so need to see it's you.
Thanx
Walt
02-06-2005, 11:33 PM
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RE: Building a runway
Hey guys this sound like a nice way to go. We are in the process of gathering material at this time. The stuff we are using is called "Dryer Felt" it is woven and made from a plastic it is used in the production of Pulp for making paper. The roll we have is 13 x 350 and it was given to us, and we have more on the way.
The question I have is where did you guys get staples 8 inches long with 2 inch heads? Also, someone spoke of spikes do you have any specifics on those and where were the spikes used in the installation and where were the staples used?
Thanks.
Dan
The question I have is where did you guys get staples 8 inches long with 2 inch heads? Also, someone spoke of spikes do you have any specifics on those and where were the spikes used in the installation and where were the staples used?
Thanks.
Dan
02-07-2005, 09:51 AM
#75
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RE: Building a runway
The staples large and small can be purchased from a construction company>If they don't have them they can get them.
We used the spikes on the end of each runway.It holds it down neatly,but the spikes are not really necessary as the staples do the job real well. It just a choice.The spikes are longer than the staples.
FYI
We used the spikes on the end of each runway.It holds it down neatly,but the spikes are not really necessary as the staples do the job real well. It just a choice.The spikes are longer than the staples.
FYI