daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

Enough is enough. Why do so many guys hate ARFs? I know they have their problems, but for a lot of us they fit the bill. I love to build and after 15 or so years I think I'm pretty good at it. But ARFs have some definite advantages. First , at this point in my life I can come up with money easier than time. Not that I'm rolling in it, but I have a little extra now and then. Time is much harder to come by. I can sit at work now and then and type this but cant build planes at work. Second, look at whats out there to build. A few months back I wanted to retire a Pizzaz. The Saito .72 was still strong as was all the radio gear. I wanted a good 3-D bird. Looking at all the kits the Laser 3-D .40 was all I could find. The Sig SE is available in kit form. The 3-D capability of it is questionable. It's more fun-fly. So what else. Now look at the ARFs. I could name five or six off the top of my head that would 3-D and use this engine. Another point is the money I mentioned earlier. ALL total they really aren't much if any higher. My current 1/4 scale is a Sig Suhkio. the ARf is $429. My last 1/4 scale was a Midwest Extra. The kit $279. The fiberglass paint and Monocoat to finish it $150. Yes the kit was built better and stronger. That didn't save it when it hit the ground. And severall month of work went down the crapper with it.

I don't expect this to change you guys over that hate ARF. But please get off the a** of us who do. LOL

David

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

David, sounds like your ticked about a comment from another forum?

There is nothing wrong with you flying ARFs. If someone doesn't like it, that is fine. They can fly what they wan't. You won't stop the ones who bash the ARFs or the kits, but to each his own.

All you can do if fly what you want, have fun, and if someone else gets bent because you fly ARF and they don't feel its right, walk away and enjoy yourself. Its their worry. Life is too short to stress about what others think.

Just my take on it.

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Not again!!!!

Fly what you want. I build and also have ARF's. I like building. Others like flying. No problem.

Life is too short to make a big deal out of this.

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

I also agree that we should all have fun, and fly whatever achieves that goal.

I would however, encourage those starting out in the hobby/sport to endeavor to build a kit sometime while they are involved in the hobby/sport. This way the needed skills to repair the inevitable dings will be acquired. I fly a mix of all planes and have had to repair quite a few dings to ARFs (my own and students). daveopam already possesses these skills, so make all the ARF's you want. If you prang one, you know how to fix it straight and true.

Oh, the Pizazz is a pretty fun sport plane. I've had one, and there's another in our club - also with the Saito 72 - that I get to fly often.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

The way I see it, Building is a hobby, Flying is a sport.

Pick your poison.

Tattoo

Bashing is human nature, it will never stop. Ford owners bash Chevy, Non-smokers bash smokers, KC Chiefs fans bash Denver, builders bash ARF's and Jim McIntyre bashes Spads. It's just the way the world works

hookedonrc

I have been on this site for a little over a year now, and have stayed out of this fray. I have a SE Kit that I got last Christmas that is partially finished and hanging up in my workshop. So.....that may be telling me something. However, until someone pays me to fly what they want me too....I will fly whatever works for me. Nuff said.......

tiggerinmk

Having read these threads before, my stance has been "Please continue the petty bickering, It's facsinating".
Now having cluttered my spare bedroom with several flyable ARF's (and not having had any of them win 'best bird' at the club) and a couple of wrecks that I haven't got around to throwing out, I now find myself venturing into the 'hobby' side of things and frequently emerging from said spare bedroom covered in a layer of balsa dust.

However, in order not to spoil my 'sit on the fence' approach, I have just bought a biplane ARC. Now with the minimum of effort I can have a ready biult plane with the same wrinkled looks and questionable color scheme as some of the kit based aircraft I see on the flightline

Mike in DC

LOL! Classic, Tattoo!

You could add: sail boaters vs. motor boaters, UNIX-lovers vs. Windows, conservatives vs. liberals, and practically anyway human kind has devised to separate the world into "us" and "them".

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

Today i was visiting my friend and flying mentor, he was in the basement building his 34th kit, the Top Flite T-34 Mentor that I bought for him. He said "the way ARF's are going this will be probably be my last kit". He's a master builder and I envy his work but I couldn't argue with his view.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Hey, if I could build as good as I could fly, they would condemn the plane before I took it to the field!

big_ stik_ 40

To minnflyer:
well put!

I learned how to fly first on an ARF, and just recently built my first kit. I love to do both, but I don't think you can compare them. If you like to fly, ARF's may be what you like, or you might like kits..your choice. If you like to do hands on building, working with tools, making your own plane you probably like kits better. Personally I love to do both, so if I have time (every winter) I will definitely continue to build kits, but if it is the middle of the season, and I happen to not have a plane to fly, I will definitely be getting an ARF, rather than spending a a month of the flying season building. I enjoy both aspects of the hobby, and I can't believe people make such a big deal out of what other people fly! Who cares! It's their plane.

Joe Ortiz

My Feedback: (75)

Munch, Munch,Munch, I'll be back with more popcorn

Mike in DC

After a while, it's going to be hard for the anti-ARF guys to even conduct the discussion. Already, for the kind of ARF that takes a few hours to build, the guys that are building them are calling them "kits", perhaps to distinguish them from the ones that take 20 minutes.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I have several ARF's and several that I built from kits. I do feel a little superior when I have one of my kit builts at the field. I know that probably sounds stupid but I'm proud of them and I feel I have one up on guys that have never built a kit. Many don't even know how to tighten the Mono when it sags or do a proper repair.

Having said that my pride and joy is a GP Patty Wagstaff ARF so I know it is a contradiction. Goingstraightup said it very well that if you have never done it you should. It'll make a you a better pilot and customer and improve your ability to set-up your ARF's.

Grampaw

I came into this hobby at a time when "things were changing," the early 60's,however I didn't get a model into the air for some time due to a severe shortage of $$. There were no ARFs around back then either, only kits and plans in the magazines. If you wanted an R/C model you had to build it. If you dinked it, you had to repair it. The magazines started running articles and plans for small, simple to build models, so I bought some balsa on Monday and had a plane ready to hand launch on Sunday. Dinged it and repaired it on the spot with that new stuff called Epoxy. A bad dink was repaired during the week in time for the next weekend. With tracing paper over magazine plans I learned to draw plans. I still enjoy sketching out a design to fill a need for a specific plane I can't find in the stores or catalogs. Those coming into the hobby today have ARFs to satisfy their needs, which is to fly, not to build, but its a different time and a different phase of our hobby. if you like ARFs, fly them and don't let the different opinions of others upset you. My only question is "Does anyone have any stats on the number of ARFs that are trashed by newcomers to R/C after a crash, that hobbyists would repair and continue to fly?"

bakes65

I can crash with the best of them and I can tell you straight from my heart that it's much easier to crash an ARF then a plane that took hours and hours to build and was the product of my own two hands.
The first plane I built sat in my plane room for almost a year because I didn't want to risk crashing it! I never really felt too bad repairing my ARF's. Fell under the category of "spit happens". On the other hand, I caught one of my cats chewing on the corner of my hand built's horizontal stab once. You know how funny it is seeing a toothless cat eat through a straw?
Finally, I think the kit builders are pansys. I'm going to buy some balsa tree seeds, grow my own tree in my back yard, cut it down, dry it out, and hand carve my next plane, make my own covering with some bubblegum, hairspray, and a twelve volt battery, heat up a flat rock in a handmade fire using two sticks to rub together, use the rock as a covering iron, scale down a 350 small block engine, hand cast it in beach sand, blend my own fuel...

Where should I stop? ARF's or hand-builts? Who cares as long as were all flyin' and can share that big toothy grin (except for my cat).

forfun42us

I like to build and fly. My son on the other hand really doesn't want to take the time to built, he just wants to fly. I guess my dislike for ARF's comes from the disappearance of kits. Planes you used to be able to find in kit form have gone by the wayside and now are only available as an ARF. I have yet to try building from plans, but soon will.

Maybe I'm wrong but i think a kit built plane is more durable than most of the ARF's I have seen but maybe not. Another thing that I don't care for is some of the parts they choose to use, like universal engine mounts and such. I would change a lot of it anyway before I flew it. After crash autopsies of some of the ARF's have revealed questionable glue joints and part fits.

I do feel that ARF's do have the potential to bring some new people into the hobby that otherwise wouldn't try it because of the commitment and investment involved, and that is a good thing.

So while I do think that ARF's have a place in this hobby, that place is not my hanger.

Oh by the way, I don't like the designated hitter either!

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

This is a dead horse that will never die. I think it's a pride issue more than anything. Kit builders just feel the need to hold themselves somehow to a higher status. They used to enjoy the admiration and the oohs and ahhs when they bring out that winter project they slaved whole 6 months on. Now they feel marginalized because some 16yrs old kid can bring a 35% Extra ARF to the field and garner far more attention.

You know, kits used to looked upon as an "easy way out". Just how tough is it to follow an instruction booklet, arrange some balsa sticks and planks, and hit it with CA? Com'on. As a kid, I learned to build kits all on my own back in the '80s. It ain't that tough to build kits, and it don't take as much skill as some would fool themselves to believe.

The only difference between scratch builders, kitters and ARFers is TIME spent. Call it hobby, sport or whatever you'd like, when you get right down to it, it's all about spending your spare time and wasting your disposable income. However you go about doing it, just enjoy it.

I suppose spending your spare time complaining about ARFers is a legitimate sport too.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Naw, both are still hobbies...or just people playing with TOYS!

ekrcflyer

How about this:

ARF is a "prebuilt" kit... Just finish it AND GO FLYING...

Why bother with "minor" details?! [sm=lol.gif]

BigSkyRCFlyer

My Feedback: (36)

I like them both. When I feel like building I build. There are so many good looking ARF's out there, and more and more everyday that I feel the need for one from time to time. I say, do what makes you happy, that is what it's all about!! Enjoy the Sport/Hobby, get out of it what you can(stress reliever,fun/enjoyment,skill, challenge,etc) , we are all different. It is human nature, people are going to disagree. LOL All I look for is a smile at the field, I never pass judgment on what plane type,engine,radio,etc is better. I just fly, have fun and help when/where I can.

Just a guy in the crowd-----my .02

Roby

Who's bashing ARF's ?

I'm a builder and have been for almost 50 years. I have several ARF's and
they all seem to fly ok but they are no where close to the stuff I build.

I fly them often when I don't want to take the "good" stuff out.

If you like 'em .......good for you, if you don't ,then don't get one. As simple
as that.

Nope...........I won't bash ARF's.

ARF stands for "ALL READY TO FIX" rite ?????? Maybe they should be called ARR"S
"ALL READY TO REPAIR"


I also am going to get some popcorn.

Regards
Roby

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

Hey Roby, bring me back some and the Parmesan cheese, thanks Bro.

I am also a builder, have been all my life and will remain that way. I do have one ARF and only because it's the only way that plane comes. You like ARF's??? good have at it but please don't come to the field and say "Look at what I just built" because you didn't build it, you assembled a few pieces, big difference. When I started in this hobby (1954) you had to build, hell the parts were printed in blue ink on sheets of balsa and I have watched them progress to what they are now.
I have also watched ARF's evolve and they have gotten better but I refuse to show up at the field with a plane that looks like all the others there, sorry but that's a real turn off. You want an ARF? fine go for it but for me set a big box of parts in front of me and just stand back.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Not to bash ARF flyers, but I just had to share the funniest comment I have ever heard on RCU.

A beginner asked how to convert his plane to a tail dragger, a very easy thing that can be done by just about anyone in a matter of an hour or so.

The first answer he got was something like "you can't make a structural change like that unless you are an engineer. Don't even try it"

That killed me. It never hurts to get some experience building. I have seen so many ARFs thrown away that could be fixed in a few minutes.

There is nothing wrong with ARFs in general, but if you can't fix it when it breaks, it sure gets expensive.

My only question, where do people get the number 6 months to build? I built a sig somethin extra in 2 nights, and covered it in the next two. Built 75% of a twin in the last month, mostly with one hand because of carpal tunnel surgery. I realize it can take a beginner longer because he has to read more, but a novice can build something like an eagle II in about 2 to 3 weeks pretty easy. Building is not as hard as people make it out to be. I can see a good scale project taking 6 months.

I just hate seeing people telling a newbie that it will take 6 months to build something. It doesn't.