I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
01-06-2004, 12:59 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: armagh,
PA
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
After reading this thread, my buddy here next to me, we'll call him Beaker, and I decided to do a little experiment. Not a full DOE Taguchi Design, but a little 10(4x) hand off experiment to see if the 9z and T6 can be handed off safely.
Results:
Out of 40 handoffs, we tuned the 6xa off once and never on the 9z.
We did however on both radios manage to reverse the ailerons, reset the flap deflection, re-adjusted the throttle mixture, changed to three different models, and managed to go from FM to PPM and back to FM.
CONCLUSION:
Do not hand off computer radios, there are too many buttons that, if pushed in sequence, can and will make changes. Now, there is no big yellow disclaimer sticker on the radio saying this, nor have I found it in the instructions, so, should Futaba be liable for not telling us that it is risky to hand off radios from one person to another, or do we take it upon ourselves to use common sense.
I'm glad this thread came up, I was taught and until now, teach without a buddy cord, but not now on a radio with a dozen or so buttons on it. I am ordering a few more buddy cords.
Results:
Out of 40 handoffs, we tuned the 6xa off once and never on the 9z.
We did however on both radios manage to reverse the ailerons, reset the flap deflection, re-adjusted the throttle mixture, changed to three different models, and managed to go from FM to PPM and back to FM.
CONCLUSION:
Do not hand off computer radios, there are too many buttons that, if pushed in sequence, can and will make changes. Now, there is no big yellow disclaimer sticker on the radio saying this, nor have I found it in the instructions, so, should Futaba be liable for not telling us that it is risky to hand off radios from one person to another, or do we take it upon ourselves to use common sense.
I'm glad this thread came up, I was taught and until now, teach without a buddy cord, but not now on a radio with a dozen or so buttons on it. I am ordering a few more buddy cords.
and by the way.. FUTABA is not to blame. PERIOD also.. im not referring to the 9z.. i have the 9c.. and i still cant see messing things up that bad.. i dont know what the 9z is like so i have no comment on that one.
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Un%2Dsafe_switch_design_in_the_Futaba_9C%25_Struck _a_person/m_1397875/tm.htm]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Un%2Dsafe_switch_design_in_the_Futaba_9C%25_Struck _a_person/m_1397875/tm.htm[/link]
01-06-2004, 07:46 AM
#3
Senior Member
My Feedback: (20)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Clayton,
NC
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
ORIGINAL: GraupnerFan
how and what were you doing to change it from fm to ppm and back again??? are you like throwing it 30 feet at each other or what?? it takes me like 40 seconds to get to the page in a 6xa.. and yes.. i own one. i dont understand how it is possible..i have done the hand off many times..and i have NEVER had a problem.. its called a piece of tape over the on ./ off switch. and unless you manhandle the radio..im not sure how you can change soo much? what planes are you flying .. or i should ask.. how low are you flying your planes that you have to do such a quick hand off? i had to take a plane deadstick at 30 ft up.. and there wasnt no urgency.. there is a correct way to do a handoff.. dont move the radio.. the student holds the radio, and the instructor grasps it,and the student moves out of the way for the instructor.. and it can be done actually faster than handing the radio itself over. just my two cents.
and by the way.. FUTABA is not to blame. PERIOD also.. im not referring to the 9z.. i have the 9c.. and i still cant see messing things up that bad.. i dont know what the 9z is like so i have no comment on that one.
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Un%2Dsafe_switch_design_in_the_Futaba_9C%25_Struck _a_person/m_1397875/tm.htm]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Un%2Dsafe_switch_design_in_the_Futaba_9C%25_Struck _a_person/m_1397875/tm.htm[/link]
After reading this thread, my buddy here next to me, we'll call him Beaker, and I decided to do a little experiment. Not a full DOE Taguchi Design, but a little 10(4x) hand off experiment to see if the 9z and T6 can be handed off safely.
Results:
Out of 40 handoffs, we tuned the 6xa off once and never on the 9z.
We did however on both radios manage to reverse the ailerons, reset the flap deflection, re-adjusted the throttle mixture, changed to three different models, and managed to go from FM to PPM and back to FM.
CONCLUSION:
Do not hand off computer radios, there are too many buttons that, if pushed in sequence, can and will make changes. Now, there is no big yellow disclaimer sticker on the radio saying this, nor have I found it in the instructions, so, should Futaba be liable for not telling us that it is risky to hand off radios from one person to another, or do we take it upon ourselves to use common sense.
I'm glad this thread came up, I was taught and until now, teach without a buddy cord, but not now on a radio with a dozen or so buttons on it. I am ordering a few more buddy cords.
Results:
Out of 40 handoffs, we tuned the 6xa off once and never on the 9z.
We did however on both radios manage to reverse the ailerons, reset the flap deflection, re-adjusted the throttle mixture, changed to three different models, and managed to go from FM to PPM and back to FM.
CONCLUSION:
Do not hand off computer radios, there are too many buttons that, if pushed in sequence, can and will make changes. Now, there is no big yellow disclaimer sticker on the radio saying this, nor have I found it in the instructions, so, should Futaba be liable for not telling us that it is risky to hand off radios from one person to another, or do we take it upon ourselves to use common sense.
I'm glad this thread came up, I was taught and until now, teach without a buddy cord, but not now on a radio with a dozen or so buttons on it. I am ordering a few more buddy cords.
and by the way.. FUTABA is not to blame. PERIOD also.. im not referring to the 9z.. i have the 9c.. and i still cant see messing things up that bad.. i dont know what the 9z is like so i have no comment on that one.
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Un%2Dsafe_switch_design_in_the_Futaba_9C%25_Struck _a_person/m_1397875/tm.htm]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Un%2Dsafe_switch_design_in_the_Futaba_9C%25_Struck _a_person/m_1397875/tm.htm[/link]
Your kidding right? You put a piece of tape over the on- off switch? Whats the problem with using a buddy cord?? I don't get it!
01-06-2004, 08:24 AM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: armagh,
PA
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
Your kidding right? You put a piece of tape over the on- off switch? Whats the problem with using a buddy cord?? I don't get it!
but yeah.... anywho... it was just a suggestion. but then again..i dont let my fat little fingers do things they shouldnt 
01-06-2004, 08:50 AM
#5
Senior Member
My Feedback: (20)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Clayton,
NC
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
ORIGINAL: GraupnerFan
no im not kidding.. i was just throwing suggestions ... so anyways... never said anything was a problem. if you dont have the right cord.. and you are the only instructor around, and someone shows up.. so your saying that you would deny the student the chance to get a bit of stick time because no one has a buddy cord?? na.. i wouldnt. but hey thats just me.. im not that stuck up like some....... but yeah.... anywho... it was just a suggestion. but then again..i dont get my fat little fingers do things they shouldnt
Your kidding right? You put a piece of tape over the on- off switch? Whats the problem with using a buddy cord?? I don't get it!
but yeah.... anywho... it was just a suggestion. but then again..i dont get my fat little fingers do things they shouldnt
Putting tape over the switch just seems crazy to me, but to each there own.
01-06-2004, 08:58 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
I would like to clear up something for those that do not have an understanding on FM, PPM and PCM. Both PCM and PPM use an FM signal. There are many web sites out there that will give you good information on this.
I'm not an instructor, but have read articles of how its done without the buddy cord and in none of those articles did I read where the instructor and the student do a hand off method, to me thats asking for trouble. I believe the proper way to do it is to allow the student to hold the radio and the instructor place his hands over the student guiding the students stick movements.
Our club does not allow this method its strictly buddy cord.
I'm not an instructor, but have read articles of how its done without the buddy cord and in none of those articles did I read where the instructor and the student do a hand off method, to me thats asking for trouble. I believe the proper way to do it is to allow the student to hold the radio and the instructor place his hands over the student guiding the students stick movements.
Our club does not allow this method its strictly buddy cord.
01-06-2004, 09:06 AM
#7
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Augusta, ME
Posts: 785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
Man.... I've taught dozens of guys to fly over the years with all manner and make of radio and have never managed to screw something up by passing the transmitter, let alone turn one off......
Edit: Ok... Maybe we've bumped a trim switch....
Edit: Ok... Maybe we've bumped a trim switch....
01-06-2004, 12:52 PM
#8
Senior Member
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
I don't see how there is any possible way to screw things up as badly as what is written in the first post, except maybe bump the flap switch. Changing models, reversing the ailerons, and "FM-PPM"? Frankly, that's just bull, and I don't think anyone else believes it either.
01-06-2004, 01:23 PM
#10
Senior Member
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
I am a modeler first, one who owns a 6X and 9C and has flown with a 9Z on a number of occasions. I know for a fact that there are a number of steps to make a major programming change such as different model or modulation type (even if it is the erroneous "FM-PPM" change). Major changes require simultaneous buttons or holding on to a button for over a second to confirm. Heck, it takes that just to get INTO THE PROGRAMMING MENU. So for whoever is quoted in the first post, I for one strongly believe (and with good reason) that you are being much less than honest with the members of RCU.
01-06-2004, 01:24 PM
#11
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bloomington,
MN
Posts: 3,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons
I don't see how there is any possible way to screw things up as badly as what is written in the first post, except maybe bump the flap switch. Changing models, reversing the ailerons, and "FM-PPM"? Frankly, that's just bull, and I don't think anyone else believes it either.
I don't see how there is any possible way to screw things up as badly as what is written in the first post, except maybe bump the flap switch. Changing models, reversing the ailerons, and "FM-PPM"? Frankly, that's just bull, and I don't think anyone else believes it either.
01-06-2004, 01:36 PM
#12
Senior Member
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
I hope so, it is tough to tell as stated whether it is or not. It is not unheard of for people to make outlandish claims to support their argument.
01-06-2004, 01:37 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: East Coast,
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
To go from ppm to pcm on Futaba radios, you also have to turn the radio off and back on again.
So yes - the one post is crap!!!!
Taxman
So yes - the one post is crap!!!!
Taxman
01-06-2004, 01:57 PM
#15
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
Quote:
___________________________________
We did however on both radios manage to reverse the ailerons,
reset the flap deflection, re-adjusted the throttle mixture, changed
to three different models, and managed to go from FM to PPM and
back to FM.
____________________________________
BALOGNA.....This is not possible....who do you think your kidding ?
On both radios ????? It's joke, right ?....And yes, I also own and operate
a 6xas.
I can see this thread probably won't last long, it's a TROLL....
___________________________________
We did however on both radios manage to reverse the ailerons,
reset the flap deflection, re-adjusted the throttle mixture, changed
to three different models, and managed to go from FM to PPM and
back to FM.
____________________________________
BALOGNA.....This is not possible....who do you think your kidding ?
On both radios ????? It's joke, right ?....And yes, I also own and operate
a 6xas.
I can see this thread probably won't last long, it's a TROLL....
01-06-2004, 02:32 PM
#16
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
WOW[X(]!!!! Thanks Mike for seeing the satire
Remember Beaker from the Muppet's
I posted that for these reasons:
1. Blackie was being flamed for posting a concern yet people had to rebuke and balk at him. Just like here.
2. I have the 6xa and David, another member has the 9z. We both have changed modes while not paying attention to the radio and where our fingers are.
They both require an extra amount of time to manage.
The on-off switch is in a bad place. On mine, when new, was really hard to turn off, but after two seasons, the button requires very little pressure to turn off.
3. Not all people are computer literate. They will have what seems !QUOT!bonehead!QUOT! problems with these radios. Help them, not blast them. Then again, this is a !QUOT!club!QUOT!house.
4. Futaba and JR, like any other company, design some features that some people will have problems with, and others feel that are just plain stupid. (I can hold the two buttons down while tuning an engine and switch from mode 1 to 2 just like I can stick my finger in the prop).
5. Futaba will only be accountable if a court rules them accountable, until then, its the consumers responsability.
6. I use my 6xa features to the max on my Warbirds, the technology has made it easier for flight management. I also realized I got what I paid for and feel that I will be retiring this radio after another hard season because some buttons are not working right due to oil residue, the trainer switch has fallen off, and the power switch is getting looser. Poor quality? No, just well used.
Sorry for getting everyones gander up.[
]
Scott
Remember Beaker from the Muppet's
I posted that for these reasons:
1. Blackie was being flamed for posting a concern yet people had to rebuke and balk at him. Just like here.
2. I have the 6xa and David, another member has the 9z. We both have changed modes while not paying attention to the radio and where our fingers are.
They both require an extra amount of time to manage.
The on-off switch is in a bad place. On mine, when new, was really hard to turn off, but after two seasons, the button requires very little pressure to turn off.
3. Not all people are computer literate. They will have what seems !QUOT!bonehead!QUOT! problems with these radios. Help them, not blast them. Then again, this is a !QUOT!club!QUOT!house.
4. Futaba and JR, like any other company, design some features that some people will have problems with, and others feel that are just plain stupid. (I can hold the two buttons down while tuning an engine and switch from mode 1 to 2 just like I can stick my finger in the prop).
5. Futaba will only be accountable if a court rules them accountable, until then, its the consumers responsability.
6. I use my 6xa features to the max on my Warbirds, the technology has made it easier for flight management. I also realized I got what I paid for and feel that I will be retiring this radio after another hard season because some buttons are not working right due to oil residue, the trainer switch has fallen off, and the power switch is getting looser. Poor quality? No, just well used.
Sorry for getting everyones gander up.[
]Scott
01-06-2004, 03:19 PM
#17
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hawthorne, CA
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
Scott, if you have to explain a joke.....Don't expect everyone here to get sarcasm, they all don't have the gene.
I want to start a Buddy Cord thread but can't figure the proper forum, I guess that means the clubhouse?
I want to start a Buddy Cord thread but can't figure the proper forum, I guess that means the clubhouse?
01-06-2004, 04:13 PM
#18
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
There is a radio Forum....and it is popular....
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/RC_R...mid_157/tt.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/RC_R...mid_157/tt.htm
01-06-2004, 04:17 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: East Coast,
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
I get sarcasm.
I just don't get how he changed from PPM and PCM without turning the radio on and off. I own 2 8u's and 1 9z and you have to turn the thing on and off to switch between modes. A person would have to try really hard or be stupid to a point that they shouldn't even consider RC airplanes as a hobby to switch accidentally while in flight.
I also understand that turning the radio off while clipping a neck strap on is dumb too. If this switch location is so dangerous and easy to accidentally hit, why don't we hear about it more often? I also don't know about other brands, but on my 9z you have to use more than accidental force to slide the switch off.
Taxman
I just don't get how he changed from PPM and PCM without turning the radio on and off. I own 2 8u's and 1 9z and you have to turn the thing on and off to switch between modes. A person would have to try really hard or be stupid to a point that they shouldn't even consider RC airplanes as a hobby to switch accidentally while in flight.
I also understand that turning the radio off while clipping a neck strap on is dumb too. If this switch location is so dangerous and easy to accidentally hit, why don't we hear about it more often? I also don't know about other brands, but on my 9z you have to use more than accidental force to slide the switch off.
Taxman
01-06-2004, 04:30 PM
#20
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hawthorne, CA
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
ORIGINAL: taxman232ex
I get sarcasm.....snip....
Taxman
I get sarcasm.....snip....
Taxman
Dave, The radio forum makes sense but I'm more concerned with instruction relating to the buddy cord, not technical aspects.
01-06-2004, 04:40 PM
#21
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
Well first off I don't see why there needs to be a closure here but here's my take on it all. I have used Futabas since the 70's and now have a super 7 and a super 8 and have handed them off many times and never have I ever had a problem. I really don't see how all those things stated could happen as it would take a concerned effort to change all those things that were stated.
01-06-2004, 09:40 PM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: armagh,
PA
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I NEED CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC.. NOT FOR IT TO BE CLOSED.
Well first off I don't see why there needs to be a closure
Seems like more and more just want to flame posters so far this year. Hope that isn't the new trend.
and it has been going on longer than just this year. everytime i post i end up getting flamed.. so i guess they should grow some thick skin to hang here.