Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
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Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
Those of us who have been 'around' here (or 'there for that matter') can remember when the topic of ABS cowls and wheelpants were a 'hot' topic of complaints. So was 'sticky backed covering'.
Nowadays MANY of the kits and a lot of ARF's are coming with fiberglassed cowls and wheelpants...not to mention the number of ARF's that are advertised as 'Monokote' or 'UltraCote' covered?
See, someone is listening to the modelers [sm=greedy.gif]
Jerry
Nowadays MANY of the kits and a lot of ARF's are coming with fiberglassed cowls and wheelpants...not to mention the number of ARF's that are advertised as 'Monokote' or 'UltraCote' covered?
See, someone is listening to the modelers [sm=greedy.gif]
Jerry
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
I wonder if we complained about kit prices enough they would lower them.
Seems wild to me tha a kit is like $99.95 and then you can buy the ARF version for $149.95
Don't get me wrong I love the whole ARF thing and the price for these is unbelievably low. I just wish the kit for a $150 ARF was about $50.
I just looked at a few on towers site and found about a 35% to 40% diff between ARF and kit.
I guess that's why I like snagging up the kits that guys have layin around that they never got around to building. $25 bucks buys alot of planes.
Seems wild to me tha a kit is like $99.95 and then you can buy the ARF version for $149.95
Don't get me wrong I love the whole ARF thing and the price for these is unbelievably low. I just wish the kit for a $150 ARF was about $50.
I just looked at a few on towers site and found about a 35% to 40% diff between ARF and kit.
I guess that's why I like snagging up the kits that guys have layin around that they never got around to building. $25 bucks buys alot of planes.
#4
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: greenboot
Jerry,
That is surprising; and it's nice to think the manufacturers respond to their customers.
Tom
Jerry,
That is surprising; and it's nice to think the manufacturers respond to their customers.
Tom
Tom,
Truth be told if they don't listen they won't have any customers. Then they don't have to worry whether or not they are listening since they won't be around
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: aimmaintenance
I wonder if we complained about kit prices enough they would lower them.
Seems wild to me tha a kit is like $99.95 and then you can buy the ARF version for $149.95
Don't get me wrong I love the whole ARF thing and the price for these is unbelievably low. I just wish the kit for a $150 ARF was about $50.
I just looked at a few on towers site and found about a 35% to 40% diff between ARF and kit.
I guess that's why I like snagging up the kits that guys have layin around that they never got around to building. $25 bucks buys alot of planes.
I wonder if we complained about kit prices enough they would lower them.
Seems wild to me tha a kit is like $99.95 and then you can buy the ARF version for $149.95
Don't get me wrong I love the whole ARF thing and the price for these is unbelievably low. I just wish the kit for a $150 ARF was about $50.
I just looked at a few on towers site and found about a 35% to 40% diff between ARF and kit.
I guess that's why I like snagging up the kits that guys have layin around that they never got around to building. $25 bucks buys alot of planes.
Just my 2 cents....
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
I don't know if anyone else has looked through the latest Tower mail catalog, but they absolutely are not lsitening to us on pricing. It appears there has been a substantial price increase across the board.
I don't know if anyone else has looked through the latest Tower mail catalog, but they absolutely are not lsitening to us on pricing. It appears there has been a substantial price increase across the board.
I'm with ya on that one but let's just look at it for a moment.
SIG Kadet senior $199.99 ARF (I'm talkin ARF here)
Have you ever seen one of these kits. (what a *******, nothin but sticks)
I'll just guess here (60 hrs to build) (that was a guess)
Translates into $3.33 per hour
ARF prices are ridiculously low. (don't tell tower or any other retailer)
Even if you could whack one out in 20 hrs would only be $10 per hr ( I don't think 20 hrs is possible)
Kit prices on the other hand I have to question.
If this is what you're referring to, I'm with ya man.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
Those ARFs aren't being made in a basement shop by a hobbyist. They're assembly line products.
Kits have gotten markedly more expensive the past 10 years. You can't find many kits from the big names under $70 anymore, which used to be more than the average .40 kit. The popularity of ARFs is responsible for this.
Kits have gotten markedly more expensive the past 10 years. You can't find many kits from the big names under $70 anymore, which used to be more than the average .40 kit. The popularity of ARFs is responsible for this.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: EagleOne
I agree, kits nowadays are rather expensive in my opinion. Here in Brazil, for example, a SIG Fazer kit is costs around 110 dollars (295 bucks on our currency). For this price, I can buy all the wood I need, plus the hardware and the covering material to make a similar plane, with the only difference that I have to cut all the parts (aka scratch-building). It will take a little longer, but not only is cheaper also a whole lot more fun.
Just my 2 cents....
I agree, kits nowadays are rather expensive in my opinion. Here in Brazil, for example, a SIG Fazer kit is costs around 110 dollars (295 bucks on our currency). For this price, I can buy all the wood I need, plus the hardware and the covering material to make a similar plane, with the only difference that I have to cut all the parts (aka scratch-building). It will take a little longer, but not only is cheaper also a whole lot more fun.
Just my 2 cents....
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
It only took a few people making the choice of the model selected because it included fiberglass parts to get everyone to switch over. While ABS looks good, it does not stand up to the test of time.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Hey, you're in Brazil! Can't you just go out in the woods and cut down a Balsa tree? That would drop the price of the kit.
ORIGINAL: EagleOne
I agree, kits nowadays are rather expensive in my opinion. Here in Brazil, for example, a SIG Fazer kit is costs around 110 dollars (295 bucks on our currency). For this price, I can buy all the wood I need, plus the hardware and the covering material to make a similar plane, with the only difference that I have to cut all the parts (aka scratch-building). It will take a little longer, but not only is cheaper also a whole lot more fun.
Just my 2 cents....
I agree, kits nowadays are rather expensive in my opinion. Here in Brazil, for example, a SIG Fazer kit is costs around 110 dollars (295 bucks on our currency). For this price, I can buy all the wood I need, plus the hardware and the covering material to make a similar plane, with the only difference that I have to cut all the parts (aka scratch-building). It will take a little longer, but not only is cheaper also a whole lot more fun.
Just my 2 cents....
Actually I live some 2000 miles away from it, so it's cheaper to drive to the LHS and buy balsa there.....Yeah, here in Brazil we don't have wild animals walking on the streets, or houses built on trees, monkeys all around....It's much more civilized than that....
#12
RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
In my opinion, once your build a kit, the total cost shouldn't exceed the ARF. Afterall, your building it, not them. And...In my opinion, the labor to build it is not what I am talking about. Basic part costs only.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
hmmmmmm for me it cost more to build a kit on a .40 size plane........but with a 2M pattern ship i can build a kit soooooo much more inexpensive.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
Personally, I don't think prices are bad for most things. What bothers me is deliberate lack of features, or a company that makes choices to provide sub-standard items just to improve their bottom line.
I don't mean they should be providing titanium hardware in their kits, but have you ever bought a kit that included hardware that you would not even consider using due to safety considerations? Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks more if that's what it takes to get better quality because I'm going to do it anyway and when I throw out crap hardware or make a new part, I'm throwing money away anyway.
As far as deliberate lack of features, I'm referring to things like Futaba giving so many model memories depending on how high-tech the radio is that you buy. Why deliberately put in limitations that would cost next to nothing to provide? I know the answer, and I think it's ridiculous.
For the most part, we get a lot more for our money than we did when I started so I don't have too many complaints about cost - just quality.
I don't mean they should be providing titanium hardware in their kits, but have you ever bought a kit that included hardware that you would not even consider using due to safety considerations? Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks more if that's what it takes to get better quality because I'm going to do it anyway and when I throw out crap hardware or make a new part, I'm throwing money away anyway.
As far as deliberate lack of features, I'm referring to things like Futaba giving so many model memories depending on how high-tech the radio is that you buy. Why deliberately put in limitations that would cost next to nothing to provide? I know the answer, and I think it's ridiculous.
For the most part, we get a lot more for our money than we did when I started so I don't have too many complaints about cost - just quality.
#15
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: aimmaintenance
I wonder if we complained about kit prices enough they would lower them.
Seems wild to me tha a kit is like $99.95 and then you can buy the ARF version for $149.95
Don't get me wrong I love the whole ARF thing and the price for these is unbelievably low. I just wish the kit for a $150 ARF was about $50.
I just looked at a few on towers site and found about a 35% to 40% diff between ARF and kit.
I wonder if we complained about kit prices enough they would lower them.
Seems wild to me tha a kit is like $99.95 and then you can buy the ARF version for $149.95
Don't get me wrong I love the whole ARF thing and the price for these is unbelievably low. I just wish the kit for a $150 ARF was about $50.
I just looked at a few on towers site and found about a 35% to 40% diff between ARF and kit.
1) Hobby store is able to buy the ARF in larger quantities, thereby getting a volume discount, which helps bring down the price they charge the customer.
2) The kit stays on the shelf longer than the ARF does. It costs the store extra because they now have capital tied up in slow-moving product. i.e the capital invested in the ARFS gets turnaround (and hence profit) on a much more accelerated cycle than the kits.
BTW, the more people that say "I'm not paying that for a kit - I'll go find some used kit somewhere instead", the more the problem gets exacerbated... even less turn-over on the kits, even less reason for the hobby stores to stock kits, and even less reason for the manufacturers to produce them. So, it's kind of a vicious circle in some ways.
Gordon
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: CafeenMan
Personally, I don't think prices are bad for most things. What bothers me is deliberate lack of features, or a company that makes choices to provide sub-standard items just to improve their bottom line.
I don't mean they should be providing titanium hardware in their kits, but have you ever bought a kit that included hardware that you would not even consider using due to safety considerations? Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks more if that's what it takes to get better quality because I'm going to do it anyway and when I throw out crap hardware or make a new part, I'm throwing money away anyway.
Personally, I don't think prices are bad for most things. What bothers me is deliberate lack of features, or a company that makes choices to provide sub-standard items just to improve their bottom line.
I don't mean they should be providing titanium hardware in their kits, but have you ever bought a kit that included hardware that you would not even consider using due to safety considerations? Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks more if that's what it takes to get better quality because I'm going to do it anyway and when I throw out crap hardware or make a new part, I'm throwing money away anyway.
I'm saying this with the idea that the price of the kit would reflect the lack of hardware.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: aimmaintenance
I kinda lean towards the idea of NO hardware with a kit (except the cowl/ wheelpants etc) as far as hinges/ horns/ rods/ motor mounts/ and some various other items it really wouldn't bother me to buy my own stuff.
I'm saying this with the idea that the price of the kit would reflect the lack of hardware.
ORIGINAL: CafeenMan
Personally, I don't think prices are bad for most things. What bothers me is deliberate lack of features, or a company that makes choices to provide sub-standard items just to improve their bottom line.
I don't mean they should be providing titanium hardware in their kits, but have you ever bought a kit that included hardware that you would not even consider using due to safety considerations? Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks more if that's what it takes to get better quality because I'm going to do it anyway and when I throw out crap hardware or make a new part, I'm throwing money away anyway.
Personally, I don't think prices are bad for most things. What bothers me is deliberate lack of features, or a company that makes choices to provide sub-standard items just to improve their bottom line.
I don't mean they should be providing titanium hardware in their kits, but have you ever bought a kit that included hardware that you would not even consider using due to safety considerations? Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks more if that's what it takes to get better quality because I'm going to do it anyway and when I throw out crap hardware or make a new part, I'm throwing money away anyway.
I'm saying this with the idea that the price of the kit would reflect the lack of hardware.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
Now if we can get the ARf mfg's to include better hardware packages. How many times do you throw away the stuff that comes with an ARF only to buy it again, but better quality? This is going to be the next hurdle for them to over come That and O.S coming out with an engine as sooth and reliable as the 160, to compete with the Mokie 210. How long have we been waiting for this one to emerge. I know - go gas. I did, but would still like a 200+ O.S. option. I have heard rumors, but that's it.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
I just bought an Attitude kit (3d balsa profile electric plane) for $87 with all the Du bro hardware and all laser cut and its awesome. Would much rather build the kit then buy an arf version if they made one of it. The kit builds in 5 hours which is just awesome and its fun!
#20
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
In the past a few guys in a group or club would each buy a new plane kit (no ARFs back then) and during construction would make it a point to check on the others to determine how they were going to finish their models. Then they'd go home and work up a different color or paint scheme for theirs. Now days if they all get the same ARF there will be three of four identical models apprear on the field. Gets a bit old seeing a line up of identical Mustangs sitting side by side in the pits. And if two or all or flown at the same time, things can get a bit hairy. Be nice to be able to get a "plain jane" version that you could finish as you wanted. And please don't mention that I can strip and recover or repaint the ARF if I don't like the way it comes. In defense of kits, a few are appearing with laser cut wood, which really helps speed up the building process and also provides more accurate alignment during construction. Oh well, it is said that "that is progress."
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
Grampa,
You make a great point, If Great Planes was really on the ball they would make the Patty Wagstaff Extra in an all white version since a lot of people don't want to show up with the same plane yet it fly's great. With the availability of custom vinyl graphics it is really easy to get a professional finish with minimul skill and effort, a necessity for todays modeler.
You make a great point, If Great Planes was really on the ball they would make the Patty Wagstaff Extra in an all white version since a lot of people don't want to show up with the same plane yet it fly's great. With the availability of custom vinyl graphics it is really easy to get a professional finish with minimul skill and effort, a necessity for todays modeler.
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RE: Have you noticed 'someone' has been listening!
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Grampa,
You make a great point, If Great Planes was really on the ball they would make the Patty Wagstaff Extra in an all white version since a lot of people don't want to show up with the same plane yet it fly's great. With the availability of custom vinyl graphics it is really easy to get a professional finish with minimul skill and effort, a necessity for todays modeler.
Grampa,
You make a great point, If Great Planes was really on the ball they would make the Patty Wagstaff Extra in an all white version since a lot of people don't want to show up with the same plane yet it fly's great. With the availability of custom vinyl graphics it is really easy to get a professional finish with minimul skill and effort, a necessity for todays modeler.
Hangar 9 did this with the Ultrastick 120 and the 73" Cap 232. Those were/are very hard to get a hold of, while the standard schemes still pop up NIB....you would think they would have learned from that!