TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

What do you think about someone who post about a models terrible flying characteristics in the forums, then places it up for sale on the marketplace? Reason for selling, " Buying another airplane". Is this buyer beware, or unethical?

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

if i had a cruddy flying plane i'd be buying another too
it doesn't make sence to slag the plane off in your advert, the buyer should know what hes getting by having a look around before buying.
would you really sell your ( ok, maybe not yours ) old banger of a car listing out it's every fault?

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I am not seeing a problem here. If the owner doesn't like the plane, it doesn't mean that the new owner will not.

ben flyn

Don't sell it!
One word.......COMBAT!!!!!!!

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

If you went online and raved about it to facilitate selling but secretly thought it was a POS, that would be unethical.

CheezeyPoof

Also to consider the guy and his lousy flying skills and the plane gets the blame. I see this all the time. I have also seen many Arfs which are construction crap but fly great! (On borrowed time)[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

depfife

My Feedback: (14)

If there is nothing wrong with the plane (twisted wing, ect) but he does not like the plane (bad design) I don't see anything wrong with selling it. Take any plane and there will be some that love it and some that hate it.

And there is nothing wrong with selling a plane with a twisted wing or some other defect, as long as the description in the ad is accurate and complete. There is no moral obligation on the part of the seller to give their opinion of the plane, just an honest description of its condition. It is the buyers job to do some research about the flying characteristics of a plane before purchasing it. If individuals were only allowed to sell planes that they thought were great, there would not be many used planes for sell.

Eric

Frankenthumb

My Feedback: (2)

When you sell a car do you point out everything that has ever gone wrong with it to the potential buyer? Or do you just give a general sense of it's condition and wait for the buyer to ask questions?

Same goes here, though there is an extra element of trust involved in our particular community because we often buy things "sight unseen". As long as there is no lying, there is no deception.

On the other hand, if someone were to sell . . . oh I don't know . . . a Pizazz in "excellent" condition, with a YS .63 that is "like new", but it shows up missing a canopy, with broken hinges and ribs, and an engine in desperate need of new gaskets all around . . . . That is downright despicable.

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

Like some said, maybe the plane is fine and the guy is a lousy pilot and blames the plane. I had a 4*40 that flew great but I didn't like it and sold it so if I said i didn't like it because it wouldn't do what I wanted it to do would that make it lousy plane???

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I have had planes I didn't really like and was going to sell then found that after I sold it, the guy moved the CG and loved it. Tried this one for myself and found you can make a real dog fly good buy just moving the CG around.

Rocketman612

My Feedback: (85)

I agree with BB. Also if the guy makes false claims about "it fly's on rails, etc." then that's a problem.

Pete

CheezeyPoof

Maybe it flys on "de-rails" [X(][sm=lol.gif][sm=bananahead.gif] boy I just crack myself up this morning!

scottrc

I've done that, then again the name of the plane I was selling told the whole story.

ModelTech Great Lakes Bipe

Yea, I put it up for auction knowing that somebody was taking on a lemon. Stated that it had "hard" flying characteristics and was hard to balance. I told the buyer it flies like a constipated turkey, but he thought it was pretty and racked up a high bid anyway.

bbbair

I have to agree with the buyer beware guys, I have bought 2 pre-enjoy ed models that the guy didn't like or "I don't care for it's handling characteristics..."

Ok I had to recover the planes, reset the trims shave the weight down and change the C of G.

NOW they fly great with NO BAD HABITS and the sellers are looking foolish on the sidelines, because they told everybody that the problems were in the design of the AC etc.

As they say; "One Man's Garbage is Another Man's Gold"

rfw1953

My Feedback: (2)

BB summed it up perfectly. I agree.

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

I think the person should have stated that they were unhappy with how it flew in their ad. Sure this can be because the CG or some part of the control was off, but who knows?

A person should do a thorough search on the plane which they are considering for purchase. As Scottrc said, he was honest about how the Great Lakes flew. If one were to go back to the "Worst flying planes ever" thread, I remember that plane being mentioned several times.

A guy gave me a TopCap that he said flew like crud. The servo rails were only attached to 1/16 balsa sheeting. After straightening the fuse and supporting the servo rails the plane flew great for me. The guy is not upset he gave it to me. He likes to watch me fly it.

scottrc

This thread made me ponder a thought: What are "bad" flying characterisitcs? I think they are up to the pilot and their ability. I think my TF P-51 has horrible flight characteristics for a begginer, or for flying 3D, but great for flying as a warbird. Same went with the GL Bipe, that thing took A LOT of time and experience to get to fly right, which it did in the hands of experience, but for the average weekend sprot flyer it would be a nightmare and really sucked compare to a Hog Bipe.

I guess as a seller you could look into the buyer, if they are new, it's their option to buy it, but you can say that you told them so if you felt that the plane was outside their limits.

Al Stein

I didn't think I had an opinion on this one til I read the other posts, BUT...

Yeh, it might be a really super airplane that was made to look bad by inadequate skill of the guy flying or trimming it and the pilot might realize that, want a plane more suited ty him, and be selling this one to finance the new plane. In that case, I see no deceit in the presentation at all.

On the other hand the question left us open to the possibility that the pilot believed in his heart of hearts that the plane was the bad variable in the equasion (since that's what he said on the web) but implied that the plane had no condition or behavior that was causing him to sell it (since his ad said that he was selling because of buying a new one). In that case, maybe there's a problem. If we assume that the guy does not believe the plane to be bad, then he must have misrepresented it before, thus giving a bad name to what he believes is a good plane. If we assume that he does believe the plane to be bad, then he must be misrepresenting it now.

I guess that unless the new, unbad treatment of the plane tells why it doesn't match up with the old, bad treatment, we can't tell at all whether there's an ethics slip happenning or just a pilot who learned that the plane is better than he thought and wants to pass it on to somebody more suited to it.

I hate to say "buyer beware" when I personally like to build and sell planes, but then I really do advertise any problems I know with mine and I have no objection to being asked probing questions and needing to provide pictures and references, so that's another thing... so, my opinion... buyer beware!

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

i've got a real sweet running AirHobbies twin that i'm willing to let go for real cheap...pretty red cylinders and comes complete with the plumbing fixture muffler...


dave

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

I guess I'm of the belief they all fly. Unless it's kit-built plane that someone really screwed up on, or an ARF that was assembled terribly, IT WILL FLY! Now...if it doesn't fly the way the owner anticipated, either it was not set up properly to start with, or the owners expectations are outside the realm of the aircraft.. so SELL IT. Someone else that might be interested for whatever reason, maybe a potential buyer had one or more, and has them ssoo wired he makes them fly wonderfully or ....

On the other hand.. if it's damaged..meaning warped, twisted, misaligned, been crashed/repaired... disclosure of anything like that is only right...and who knows..... may be a good bargaining tool too.

I've only bought one used plane in my almost 30yrs in the hobby, and really just a handful of ARF's, and the one kit-built I bought..I bought with intentions....to learn and experience a bigger plane. I didn't have it long, it served it's purpose...and it did have some idio-syncrocies... fully disclosed.... but the guy I sold it too didn't care...took it home... fixed it up.... and has a blast with.

Buying used anything we take chances..... but for as many good deals that happen on the internet every day..there's probably a pretty decent track record that most are good, and good flying planes.