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Noise Limitations

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Old 06-23-2002, 01:01 AM
  #1  
phazernut
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Default Noise Limitations

Our club has just acquired a new field. For the first time in the clubs history we have a residential area close by. We are going to implement noise restrictions to avoid any potential problems. What are the standard guidelines that are generally used. I have read a few different limits but I am looking for some advise from those who may have had a similar situation.
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Old 06-23-2002, 01:40 AM
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kevin mcgrath
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Default Noise Limitations

Very complex subject.Sound is measured in decibels.To establish a range any typical field with one or more modellers using old flow thru mufflers,or gassers with a B&B manifolds is going to have levels of >100.Many US fields state mid 90s max.I believe the continental European max is 84.
Problem is how good is your measuring equipment?How far away from the noise do you take the reading?.In the air or on the ground?Grass or hard surface?
To complicate the subject more,whats noise to me is music to you.Many find the scream of a glow 2 stroke irritating,others dont like gassers.Just about everyone agrees a 4stroke glow is pleasant.However if your housing neighbors can see the airplanes in the air,they may complain of noise no matter how low you keep the level.
Im far from expert on this subject so the above is for discussion prompting because Im very interested in limiting noise.
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Old 06-23-2002, 10:07 AM
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phazernut
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Default Noise Limitations

Thanks Kevin. We don't even have a meter yet, but I was thinking about the Digital one at RAdio Shack for 90.00. I assume that is a half decent meter. I was also thinking about the mid 90s for a starting level at around 9 feet or so.
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Old 06-23-2002, 03:27 PM
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Steve Lewin
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Default Noise Limitations

The standard limit in the UK is 82dBA at 7m (roughly 23ft). So your mid-90s at 9ft is incredibly loud by our standards.

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Old 06-23-2002, 08:09 PM
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Default Noise Level

My club bought the Radio Shack DB meter and have been using it for three years. Were very satisfied with it.
Also check with the AMA on their noise level guide lines.


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Old 06-23-2002, 10:01 PM
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phazernut
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Default Noise Limitations

Bob

What levels are you using at your field?
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Old 06-24-2002, 12:31 AM
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Default Noise Limitations

Check out the IMAC site. They are establishing new noise rules right now. The discussions and techniques on their site are very informative. The general limit for restricted clubs in my area is 92db at 9 feet measured from the exhaust side on hard clear ground. BTW, it's not uncommon for a gasser to measure 105db. This is about right for a big motor with minimalist muffler. Unfortunately, this is an all too common set-up. My club has no official limit. However, a policy of self policing will be much better than fighting for flying privileges. Just be a good neighbor.

http://www.mini-iac.com
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Old 06-24-2002, 05:05 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Craig, we are in the same boat at our field. We have a rule that all planes must have working mufflers and have banned gassers. Recently though we have noticed some planes with mufflers are quite loud. We have begun some testing with information provided by the AMA. We have set a Max sound level of 98dbs measured at 9 feet from the side of the plane the muffler is on. The meter is placed down wind of the plane. we set the plane in a stand thats about 3 feet off the ground and set the meter level with the muffler. We make sure no one is standing close to the plane and the meter so as not to reflect sound. Also the AMA shows the meter to be turned 70 degrees away from the plane. So far a magnum 46 with a Pitts muffler has failed and a Zenoah G38 and a US41 have passed. So we may lift the ban on gassers. Hope this helps
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Old 06-24-2002, 09:27 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

We have the radio shack meter too but havent used it much.Good to hear its reliable.
Interesting that some orginizations ban "gassers"...and frankly it sounds like a knee jerk reaction.
There is nothing in modelling more irritating than a poorly muffled glow two stroke screaming away at 15000 rpm,IMO.
The technology exists to quiet all types of internal combustion engines used in models,and all it takes is commitment,attitude readjustment,and enforcement at the club level.This sounds easy and isnt.How many of these common types of offenders do you have in your club?
1..Mr Shallowpockets......I just spent $35 on this used .40 and cant see spending $40 for a muffler!

2-Mr Performance...Id like to use a quieter muffler but I,d lose at least 100 rpm off the top end.

3-Mr Gasser....No way Im paying $100 for a muffler!

4-Mr Inventor...Look at this muffler I just made out of a mustard tin.....didnt cost me nuthin!

5-Mr Crackof dawn......Yeah I know the club rule is no flying before 9:00 am,but theres no wind at 7:00 am.

Before anyone relegates me to the Olde Pharts club,let me say I fly mainly 1/3 and 1/4 gassers,and after some abortive experiments with B&B "mufflers",use Bisson designs which can be as low as the high 80 DB range and lower if I ask Jim Bisson for it.I have in my time flown old style pattern tuned pipes and all,formula one pylon with rear rotor .40s with no mufflers at all,etc etc........
To really get you thinking if you care at all,let me paraphrase an article I have in front of me from a Northern Mi newspaper dated June 19/02.
The headline reads"Despite noise complaints,voters OK remote-controlled airplanes"
Seems the members of the Traverse City club held an airshow on their leased site,which resulted in a deluge of noise complaints to City Council.The Township board shut the club down but later relented on acceptance by a vote of residents 188 for 140 against to allow them to continue flying under the following rules.
1-The parcel from which they fly must be at least 100 acres(75 football fields)
2-No more than two airplanes flying at one time.

3-DB level of 65 max at the edge of the parcel with the airplane in flight.
4-Flying allowed only four days a week........no Sundays

Welcome to the future!
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Old 06-25-2002, 01:39 AM
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Default Noise

Craig
Were using pretty much the same guide lines as the rc-sport group is using with the exception that the airplane is on the ground.


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Old 06-25-2002, 11:55 AM
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Default Noise Limitations

Noise is measured the same at 3 clubs where I fly. A "sound station" is set up with a post 1 M high. Limit is 88db @ 3 M. measured from all 4 sides. A little surprising how much louder one side can be.
It's surprising how people will try to cheat by detuning engines and/or wearing thick cotton shirts and deliberately standing behind the muffler to absorb sound energy.

Interesting aside. It's not always the muffler that makes all the noise, cheap props (primarily square tipped) make a LOT of noise. The SYclone 38 in my Tigermoth wouldn't pass with a square-tip prop, went to a Menz and no problem. Both props 20X10.
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Old 06-25-2002, 08:51 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Bob36, we were told by the AMA not to measure the planes on the ground unless its asphalt. The grass can effect the readings(long grass, wet grass etc.) We also test planes right after a flight so we know the engines are running at there peak and no one is allowed near the plane except for the person reading the meter. We also found props do have alot of influence on sound.
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Old 06-26-2002, 12:13 AM
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Default Noise

rc-sport
Your correct when you say that AMA stated not to test on the ground but my club opted to do so. And again your correct about the prop being a part of the noise problem. also my club has set 100 db as our standard.
We have a fairly isolated field and noise is not a problem with us, and we do not have but one or two members who fly in contests at other sites.


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Old 06-26-2002, 12:56 AM
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Default Noise Limitations

uuummmm Jim,

I believe we are 88 db @ 7 meters? I don't think anyone could fly with the limit at 3 meters.

Bob aka Nuker
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Old 06-26-2002, 01:24 AM
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Default Noise Limitations

88 dbs at 3 meters? that would be pretty tough to meet. I think my burps are louder then that.
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Old 06-26-2002, 04:42 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Originally posted by Nuker
uuummmm Jim,

I believe we are 88 db @ 7 meters? I don't think anyone could fly with the limit at 3 meters.

Bob aka Nuker
Oops.
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Old 06-26-2002, 05:28 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Originally posted by Jim_McIntyre


Oops.
Well, there are thousands of us here in the UK who achieve 82 or less at 7 metres, which if my understanding is right would equate to about 87 dB at 3 metres.

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Old 06-26-2002, 05:55 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Originally posted by slartibartfast


Well, there are thousands of us here in the UK who achieve 82 or less at 7 metres, which if my understanding is right would equate to about 87 dB at 3 metres.

slarti
Hi Slarty, designed any fjords to compete with Norway recently?

Glad to hear you 'blokes' can make such quiet numbers, I can too... with my sailplane... as long as I don't use cheap servos ... or eat chilli.

Really, I'd love to see a 30% 3D fullhouse that could meet those numbers and still perform. I just find it hard to believe it could happen.
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Old 06-26-2002, 06:12 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Originally posted by Jim_McIntyre


Hi Slarty, designed any fjords to compete with Norway recently?

Glad to hear you 'blokes' can make such quiet numbers, I can too... with my sailplane... as long as I don't use cheap servos ... or eat chilli.

Really, I'd love to see a 30% 3D fullhouse that could meet those numbers and still perform. I just find it hard to believe it could happen.
Don't you love those crinkly edges?

Anyway, don't have numbers for big stuff, but you might find this interesting:

http://www.flyingsites.co.uk/howto/noisechart.htm

slarti
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Old 06-26-2002, 07:52 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

Don't forget to check the local ordinances on noise. Some communities have their own requirements and that is what local law enforcement will go by if they try to shut you down.
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Old 07-22-2002, 06:22 PM
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Default Noise Limitations

One of the local clubs here recently passed noise restrictions. The results have been mixed...check the "discussion board" at the website www.baycityflyers.com for quite an interesting take on the situation.
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Old 07-23-2002, 01:58 PM
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I think banning gassers is a bit over the top and feel probably has less to do with sound and more to do with unrelated issues. A better rule would be to limit ALL planes to the same restrictions and if the gas guy can get the number down then he can fly. Otherwise your just banning gassers to ban gassers.

And if you do ban gassers then what do you say to a gas flyer who shows up at your field and does 87db at 3meters and you can't do 90db at 7 meters? Who should go home?
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Old 07-23-2002, 04:07 PM
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Default Taking a different tack

Keeping in mind that once someone gets you in their sights and decides that there isn't room enough for them and your model airplane club to co-exsist, things can get pretty discouraging.

I have often wondered this, is it really an issue with the noise, or is it more a fear of seeing these things gyrating through the sky at what must seem like 1000 miles per hour and wondering what would happen if they "got out of control" and crashed!

I know they make noise and I know that some people have very sensitive hearing. When I was flying U/C back in the late 50's early 60's in the park across the street, now that was obnoxious. We had one neighbor who would call in an instant. But today is it really all about the noise. Even with the worst mufflers is it really that intolerable?

Just wondered what others think. Is it really about the noise, or is it a combination of both, the fear added in with the noise.

Has anyone ever asked? Just a curious question....... Please don't hit me )
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Old 07-23-2002, 04:41 PM
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Our club limit is 100 db at 9 feet on concrete. I think it is 9 feet Anyway, all aircraft must have a muffler.

For example: An OS 50 SX with a Slimline pitts muffler and APC 11x6 prop will fail.
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Old 07-25-2002, 02:15 PM
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Kevin
In regards to the Traverse City Club (TRAMPS) I have been flying with them this summer. The Township officials were all in favor of the club flying at this location (160 acres I think) as were the closes neighbor.

The complaint that started this mess came from 3/4 mile away. When township officials measured the noise level at the edge of their property (with two planes in air) the wind caused more noise on the Radio Shack meter than the planes, cars on the road did also. The whiners lost all credibility but does show that some people just plain don't want anything to change in their life.

The TRAMPS tests tell them that they will have no trouble meeting the noise ruling if the measure 95dba at 9 feet and have set their limit at that.

What really sucks is that they are limited to two planes in the air at any one time, 4 days flying per week and NO flying on Sunday.
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