J_R

Who is writing the checks? If these folks were not authorized to do the work, or make the purchases, whose money did they use?

justinh

My Feedback: (6)

They'll show up to the next meeting with the receipts and expect to be reimbursed of course.[:'(]

J_R

Sounds like that is when the club gets to vote. Are you a member of the same club, justinh?

justinh

My Feedback: (6)

Yeah, I belong to the same club here. I just started flying last summer though and it seems that this grass project dates back a couple years before my time. We already voted last month to buy $600 in buffalo grass seed and solicit volunteers at the May meeting to come out and help plant it. Since its not may yet and different seed is already in the ground the next meeting will probably be 'interesting'.

Personally I'd vote to not only not reimburse the cost of the seed but also make whoever planted the wrong seed pay to have it removed so we can plant the seed we originally voted to buy. I don't even own a plane I planned to fly off of grass but what gets me is why should I be paying for irrigation equipment etc to tend to a patch of grass thats not even suitable to fly off of. If we wanted clumpy grass that rips your landing gear off we could have kept the weeds and not had to pay for a sprinkler to water it.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

J_R, they used thier own money, but will expect to be reimbursed at the May meeting. I and others will attempt to stop the reimbursement.

Mike, I have thought about your post long and hard. I'm not looking for a lynching party. I'm not the vengeful type. I'm looking for advice on how to handle the situation. Several key club members have put pressure on me in the last three days to start another club indicating that they would join in a heart beat. I'm not opposed to the idea, but I'm not convinced that is the best course of action. I was hoping for a diplomatic solution... something I missed, maybe others that have been in similar clubs and could offer advice, etc. When a vote is called and X is passed, and a small group decides screw that, we will secretely do Y anyway, I'd call that renagades. It is not that they disagree on the grass type... they don't want grass period. Club votes to plant grass X, they don't get thier way, so they quickly plant the wrong grass before the club can react. It was not an honest mistake. Even if I give the benifit of the doubt to them, and they selected a different runway surface in an honest attempt to help the club, it was still in direct violation of what the club authorized, which is very wrong. I've been at RCU for a long time. I've seen the obvious troll posts and the over the top posts. Maybe on the surface it seems as if I am overreacting, but this is not an isolated issue. I really don't want to explain more becasue I don't want to air any more dirty laundry than I already have so if that makes me look like a lose cannon here on RCU, so be it. I'd love to forget it as you suggest. I have "forgotten" a lot of BS in the past. But this time I can't just let it go. I do however thank you for your suggestion to rexamine my position.

Phillybaby... I'd give an organ to be a member of your club.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

After doing a little reading it seems that the Fescue is suitable for your field. While it may need more water than Buffalo it is very drought resistant and suitable for lawns and golf courses. That it is clumpy is not really correct. It grows as a patch spreading outward as opposed to Buffalo whichs grows more like a vine spreading outward. The end result is still a lawn when cut on a regular basis. Buffalo is much harder to germinate and the Fescue may actually look better when kept 1-1/2 inches tall. The Buffalo seems to like it better at 2-3 inches in the summer so it might be a toss up. Check for yourself on Google.

It seems like there might be two sides to this story as usual and we are only getting one version. The"clique" did do the work and if they also put in the irrigation pipe that is no small chore for a bunch of old guys.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

OK, I know I may be looking like a crack pot, but

First, they didn't put in pipe. We bought a $3500 reel sprinkler. Hook up hose and turn on... a child could operate it.

If there are any turf grass specilist that belive my understand of tall fescue vs buffalo to be in error, I'd honestly like to know as it would alter my position some. But this is my understanding. Fescue won't clump (thinning) if well maintained. Proper maintenance compared to buffalo grass includes three times the fertalizer, five times the water, and overseeding. I'd have to crank on the math, but this is easily three to four times the ongoing cost of buffalo. Mowing height is a bit deceptive on the two grasses becasue of how the leaves lay. Buffalo lays flat... you could probably fly a 40 sized model on 5" buffalo grass, but would struggle on 2" fescue. Basin, Buffalo really doesn't grow in LA, but if you ever get to the central plains, make a point to visit a buffalo grass field. There is a very nice one in Salina, KS... you'll see what I mean. Sure fescue will look better... but is that really important? I don't want a lawn, I want an airstrip. Yes, buffalo is harder to germinate. But we actually planted buffalo five years ago with no irrigation. Where it came in, it was perfect, but only had 20% coverage. That's why we bought the $3500 sprinkler... so we could properly germinate buffalo grass, not so we could pump 1.5 million gallons a year on a fescue lawn.


Of course there is two sides of every story. Those in qeustion to the best of my knowledge never visit RCU as most really aren't active modelers, so we never will see thier response. But what possible response could they give for going out of thier way to directly circumvent a voted and passed motion? We were supposed to sign up for help at the upcoming May meeting. The grass was supposed to be planted in early May. I and others would have gladly signed up and helped. Just becasue they were sneaky and did it by themselves means they can do whatever they want and I'm supposed to say "Thanks?" Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

John,
You don't sound like a crackpot and it seems like you know what you are talking about. If the majority of club members feel the same as you it seems like there are some things that could be done. Unfortunately some people's hobby becomes the club more than what the club is for, flying models. It seems that the guys you are dealing with have a lot of time to make hay (sorry) for the rest of you.

Without knowing your club bylaws it is hard to say what could be done. I'd e-mail them to JR and let him come up with some ideas. Perhaps documenting actions contrary to the good of the club would be a precursor to expulsion. Other legal actions would probably have to include partial refund of lifetime dues payments which might be a bargain for the club if these infractions are common.

On the other side of the coin of actions you could take would be behavior modification through peer presure and alienation. Confronting them at the club meeting with the strong support of other club members would be the best way to get the point across but most people want to avoid confrontation so good luck there.

It seems that the exec board of the club needs to get some balls to deal with these guys. As for the imediate grass problem, I'd lock up the sprinkler untill you could plow the Fuscue under so you could start over.

SDR-Hammer

John, I realize an event like this is just another episode of a culmination of many and someone has to be in the know to truly understand. Let’s say the good ole boys don’t get reimbursed for the seed they planted. Do you think this is going to defeat them and stop further shenanigans? This may very well strengthen their resolve to undermine the rest of the club further. Are you ready to keep fighting this battle over and over?

All the energy that is being expended being wrapped in this political hoopla could easily be spent on starting another club as you mentioned. Sure you won’t have a paved runway, or a clubhouse with running water, electricity and a soda machine. We don’t have any of that stuff either at our field but I’ll grantee we have more fun at a third of the dues. Because we don’t have any political B.S. we just fly!

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

SDR - that is exactly the dilemma I'm in and I think you have an understanding of how events could play out. I know I can get the majority to enforce what we voted on, but only if someone leads. I've already contacted the board and EC. They are very upset, but unwilling to say anything unless I bring it up at the meeting (i.e., I have to be the bad guy.) Only I can determine if the fight it worth the possible rewards. The only known reward is that we would get our Buffalo grass as we voted. The down side as you pointed out could be ever increasing conflicts in the club. I belive you are probably correct in our case, it would only anger those that feel entitled. Is the proper grass worth increasiong future conflicts... I'd say no, it is not worth fighting for. But I am still struggling with the new club idea. Starting a new club would be a lot of work, others would share the load, but I would probably have to lead for at least the first year. I'm pretty sure I can get 30 members from day one and probably another 30 once we secure a flying site, so the club would be viable. But I don't want to alienate the old club in the process. I'm stuck in a catch-22.

(edited for syntax error)

taxman232ex

Yep Tax season is over. I have a few returns on extension to finish, but for the most part I can now get back to the important stuff such as pondering buffalo grass vs. tall fescue.

I am now also wondering if fecal matter could of caused that LIPO errr I mean NIMH fire. Plus I am now concerned that my neighbor is stockpiling K1 kerosene errr I mean Jet A in his garage.

I can only hope that "Brown" steps in soon.

Taxman

Ducted Fan Dan

My Feedback: (2)

I haven't been this entertained since I was vice-president of a condo association !

Tommygun

My Feedback: (2)

And what if that person decides not to leave? Do you physically force them out?

PME

My Feedback: (6)

there is always ROUND UP

SDR-Hammer

I wouldn’t worry about the old club if you start another. All the people that agree with your ideals will jump ship too leaving behind those your alienating now with opposition.

Sounds more like a win win to me.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Reminds me of some of those "Cyclic Hardover" threads

J_R

Hi JohnW

Let me make a suggestion.

First, look at what is happening in your club. Most clubs would absolutely love to have several people that would actually do the work and not gripe about doing it. These guys are unusual in that respect, and obviously do care about the club. If I were in your position, I would try to turn these guys.

Start by stating that the expenses should not be reimbursed, and explain exactly why. Make it look like that is where you are going. You have to make them believe this is war.

Then, make the switch. Grab the high ground and suggest that in this case, their help is soooo appreciated that you believe the seed expense should be reimbursed, in spite of their "error", just this one time. If you pull it off right, you give them credit, while reprimanding them at the same time and set the tone for the future. The future is your real concern.


For whatever it is worth, I have a fescue lawn. Cold (under 65) turns it brown. I live in an area where it is over 100 most of the summer. Watering twice a day is almost a must. The stuff should be labor intensive and will probably die off before a year is out, giving the the opportunity to do it right, if Buffalo grass is the right choice. I haven't been to your neck of the woods and I could be all wet.

Pjtg0707

"Keep your frends close, your enemies closer"

Shin Tsu, "The Art of War"

Pattern Junkie

Hey, fellows,


Time to hear from another member of the same club. I don't post much, but I felt compelled to on this one. The discussion of the fescue vs. buffalo grass is not the real core issue. It had, however been WELL researched on the internet and by talking with local experts, as well as discussed (to death) in SEVERAL club meetings.

The real issue is the fact that in SPITE of the research and discussion, and the fact that the club voted to go that route, the individual (in this case, though there are several in a clique that scratch each other's backs), deliberately and maliciously circumvented proper protocol in purchasing and planting the seed ahead of time, fait accompi. The club had actally also picked a member to pick up the grass seed, and get planting instructions, as you will notice if you read the meeting minutes, as some of you mentioned you had. http://www.acsmagnum.com/lsk. The club also voted to put the planting off until after the May club meeting, in order to collect volunteers to help plant. The 'miscreant' called the designated purchaser, and told him not to bother, "I'll take care of it."

Another bit of deviousness that took place concerns the reason for planting the grass in the first place. Some of the members that fly the 25-40% scale models have trouble gettting down on the asphalt, and the intent was to improve the addtional non-paved section of the runway, which would give an additional 100 feet of runway length on the over-run. When the planting was done, the additional grass was planted ONLY parallel to the, with no attention to the over-run area. I know there is also some big-vs-little plane politics going on too, so I'm equally sure THIS was deliberate as well. The area of grass seeded is barely larger than the paved part, being the same length, and about 3 feet wider, which gives LITTLE improvement for the large scale modelors.

This is not the first or even the second that MALICIOUS disregard for the membership's wishes has occurred, just the largest and most recent. We have a REALLY cheesy fake set of armor in the club house because of this, which unpleasantly reminds us of this every day, and over the years, mowers and even tractors have shown up this way. Their ideas of club membership is, to misquote a Kevin Costner film, "You buy it, and they'll come...around"

There are a number of people upset about it, most who know, as a matter of fact. The problem there is getting these people to meetings. Most are normal reasonable types, and the meetings are often so unpleasant (or just boring), that most of them have quit coming, thanks to the same clique. Getting them to a meeting is like pulling teeth.

John is not quite as alone as he may feel, however, and I hope he is pleasantly surprised when he arrives at the meeting. He is well regarded by the majority of the club, not just for his impeccable building and flying skills, but because he's NOT afraid to stand up. Not to mention the fact that I'm the club newsletter editor, and editors sometimes write editorials. And not always nice ones.

Regards,
Dave

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

then all the upset people that don't want to come to meetings agree to turn up "en masse" at the next meeting and stomp them into the ground.

you could also call a EGM to do this.

Pattern Junkie

Philly,

That's my take on it too. Unfortunately those that don't like to come to meetings don't like to come precisely because they don't like confrontation, so they're liable to stay AWAY en masse. That's how clubs get into this kind of state in the first place.

An 'EGM'? Emergency 'something' meeting? Our next club meeting is a week from Friday. There would be little possibility of getting any kind of quorum together before then, I suspect. Plus, the grass is in the ground, a few days aren't going to make a difference.

Personally, I liked somoene's suggestion about 'Roundup'. But I wouldn't kill the grass off, I'd use it to make a 400 foot long by 45 foot tall billboard saying something like, "Real men don't plant fescue", or maybe "Pat Paulsen for President"

Dave

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

safety in numbers

Emergency general meeting. we can have those if needed to get all the ones that bother to get to meetings to vote on important stuff thats just cropped up.
as those that turn up to the meetings are normally the ones that give two hoots about the club the decisions made are normally the right ones and popular across the rest of the club.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

You could hold an EGM and put them on DSP (Double Secret Probation).

greenboot

My Feedback: (1)

If purchasing the wrong items is a recurring problem, you should clearly define a policy for future purchases. Specifically, no reimbursements will be made. Instead, only checks issued by the treasurer can be used to buy club stuff. Then if someone buys some unauthorized stuff, they own it.

Tom

FHHuber

That's probably the way to go here. Make it clear that no purchases can be charged to the club or reimbursed without proper authorization in advance.

Also, since the planting was done in a manner intended to undermine the reasons behind the decision to plant grass in the first place... The guys should not be reimbursed and it should be made clear that it is because they were attempting to get around a decision that had been voted on. (Then make them pay to have the incorrect grass removed.[>:]... well... better plans below)

I would bet that the Buffalo would crod out the fescue within a couple of years. Overseed the fescue with the buffalo and the fescue will act as shade for the seedlings. fescue/rye mix is used around here as a quick-cover to shade the bermuda grass seed. The fescue and rye come up quick. The bermuda takes a while, and needs the shade till the roots develop. The bermuda ALWAYS wins over the fescue and rye. (the strain of bermuda used here crowds out Johnson grass and St Augustine and... just about anything. Too bad it hates cold or it would be perfect for you.)

Buffalo has some similarities to the local bermuda... but it handles cold a lot better (no re-seeding every spring.) And I think the buffalo looks better. (but it would fry down here) From what I remember dealing with the stuff (been a few years since I was that far north and working lawn care for a sod farm) the fescue should get crowded out within a couple of years.