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Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

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Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Old 05-17-2004, 10:16 AM
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SDR-Hammer
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Default Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Anybody that has ever owned an airplane that had just enough power to fly will understand what I mean by flying on the wing. On the take off roll you hope the plane will achieve take off speed before reaching the end of the runway. Getting the wheels free from the ground requires a little bit of finesse of the elevator, lot of body English and saying PLEASE. Once the plane is airborne it still requires a lot of discretionary use of the elevator to achieve the maximum rate of climb, without stalling, to clear any obstacles and make turns into the pattern. Aerobatic maneuvers are another discussion all together.

Last year I acquired such a plane and use it to teach my kids flying R/C. Invariably, just about every time that plane goes in the air somebody will comment, “didn’t think you were going to make it (off the runway or over the trees)”. I think they are nervous. When I got into flying R/C it was very common to see somebody flying planes like this. In fact this reminds me of the plane I was taught to fly on. Now days even trainers have a short take off roll and can climb quickly. I hardly see anybody fly planes that lack plenty of prop and throttle anymore. Flying on the wing requires a certain finesse that the availability of extra power doesn’t, plus power provides comfort.
Old 05-17-2004, 10:43 AM
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FLYBOY
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I have flown a few like that, and a couple of full scales too. Can be fun at times, and frusterating at others. Sure will teach you to be smooth though.
Old 05-17-2004, 11:24 AM
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depfife
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Flying on the wing… A dying skill?
A few years ago I had a Four Star 40 powered with an old OS 40FP. Not terribly underpowered, but it did require a long roll to get going fast enough to take off. Once airborne it would only climb at a modest angle. The first couple of times I flew the plane it was fun, because it was different than my other more powerful planes.

It did not take long before I got bored with putting around and left the 4* sitting in the shop. Different strokes. I don't think the skill of flying on the wing is dying any more than the skill of dialing a rotary phone. I can do it, but why would I?

Eric
Old 05-17-2004, 11:38 AM
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Live Wire
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

The good old day when motors had no power , fuel would not burn, and foamies were the latest thing in ARF's. Now the in thing is flying on the prop, you don't have to worry about the end ofthe runway and the popular engines were 19 and 29.
Old 05-17-2004, 12:17 PM
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Cactus.
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

i started with a glider, i had the best times on my own in the sunset on a dune with a sea breeze carressing the wings. it took skill to keep it going in the conditions my friends just wern't interested in.
My first power plane was electric, and while easy to fly had a low power to weight ratio, much like the Wattage Sabre without the sharp stall.
the first glow was a FP 25 in a sports plane, again no vert and nice to fly.

Since then i've had funflys/speed/funfighters and rarely gone under 1:1 power ratio, but i've been given an old Bobcat 40 which i'll put a FP 25 into.
the aim is to have a plane that just flys ( and has tri UC also ) i don't have to fly it fast, or hang or anything, just go and fly and not really care about it. the low power will also make it nice and relaxing and hopefully bring a bit of skill back to my flying, energy managment and all that.


The current trainers are fine and have enough power to get out of trouble for the instructor, but the learners have it far too easy with the left stick ( AKA power on/off switch ).
Old 05-17-2004, 12:35 PM
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tIANci
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

What SDR took me back 20 years! Hahahaha ... I remember when TT engines were not considered reliable enough and 25 sized planes were entry level. I try to take off with half throttle if I can so that the plane will lift itself and break from the ground, happens often but not often enough ... need to learn to fly the plane on the wing even with today's powerful engines.
Old 05-17-2004, 01:11 PM
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Cactus.
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

i forgot to add i sometimes with my funfly take off and then fly on as little throttle as poss, just see how little rpm i can use to keep it going.
Old 05-17-2004, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I have flown several planes like that, either because of power limitations or I cut the throttle back. I had a Cloud Dancer with a really tired Webra 61 for power (?). It had a take off roll just as you described yours to be. It did teach smoothness of control input and imparted a deeper understanding of just how an airplane flies. It was necessary to dive to pick up speed to get over the top of a loop. Rolls had to start with a shallow dive into an upline then roll. It was very helpful in the coordination of rudder and aileron for turns to minimize altitude loss.
I have planes with power to spare and then some. I enjoy flying the wing, especially with a bipe.
Well, that's it. Happy landings, Tony
Old 05-17-2004, 01:34 PM
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smokingcrater
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

try flying a small cheap foamy speed 400 park flyer. most of those in stock config barely fly, and have MUCH less power then even a poorly powered .40 trainer.
Old 05-17-2004, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I know what your talking about and i have only been flying two years.
The one i fly on the wing is a Dynaflight SE5 with an OS70FS. Actually it's pretty fun!
Pat
Old 05-17-2004, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I flew as my only plane in college an old Goldberg Skytiger with a worn K&B 40. This old plane was given to me by my instructor. He said it would let me build character, that and the option to learn to rebuild crashed airplanes whenever I got to placent.

I remember one funfly where they had a radar dedector. I got clocked at 35mph with a tailwind. Whenever I turned into the wind, I had to make sure I had plenty of altitude to go negative attitude on the nose so I wouldn't stall.

I had that plane for 10 years without a mishap. I made other pilots nervous watching it fly because it looked like it would fall out of the sky. But I got to where I could do loops and rolls, and even a good hammerhead if the mixture was right.
Old 05-17-2004, 04:26 PM
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DBCherry
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I learned on a PT 40 with an OS 40 FP, and even that had plenty of power. Sure it had a long take off roll, and you HAD to dive to get enough airspeed to pull a loop, but it also taught me a LOT!

My second plane was a Super Sportster with a second OS 40 FP on it. It too flew very well. I've had a number of 40 size sport planes, many using those FP's, and some still in service that use 52 four strokes. I like the additional torque of the four strokes, but the planes certainly aren't over powered.

Today I also have a J3 Cub, 81 inch wing span, with a Magnum 52 four stroke. Trust me, it flys like a Cub.

So the art of flying on the wing isn't dead, just half asleep.
Dennis-
Old 05-17-2004, 07:47 PM
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AQ500
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

My first plane was a foamy powered by the powerful Cox .049. The second was a Kadet Senior with a fox 40.

Today you need a trainer that hovers and is capable of 3D. Most people I see that fly must think that 3D is point the nose up and hit the throttle.

I just hate to see people go dead stick and crash their plane because they have little experience with slower planes. One thing we do for fun is to see how long we can fly on one tank of gas. Our record on the Avistar with a 46 LA is 1 hour and 39 minutes from takeoff to landing. I got 39 minutes on my RF 25 with a Saito 30. Good flying on the wing training.
Old 05-17-2004, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Yep, its definately a dying skill and in my opinion, I say "Let it Die".

Why would you enjoy putting around, half falling out of the sky when you can easily put a bigger engine on the plane (in case you need it) and just back off the throttle?

If you enjoy flying slow, thats fine, but why wouldn't you want the extra power available if you needed it (especially in helping to train a new flier)?
Old 05-17-2004, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

One of the events we've used in fun flys is called "fast/slow". You need a timekeeper and two volunteers, one at each end of the field.

You have each participant fly as fast as they can down the runway, the volunteer at the first end of the field drops his hand when the plane passes and the timer starts his watch. When the plane passes the far end of the runway the second volunteer drops his hand and the timer stops the watch.

The pilot then repeats the process, but flying as slow as he can. The largest difference wins.

It's almost funny watching the guys who've never flown "on the wing" trying desperately to keep their planes from tipstalling into the ground. [>:]
Dennis-
Old 05-17-2004, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I do about 5 minutes of slow flight on almost all of my flights. Either slow touch and goes or slow aerobatics. Lazy and smoooooth.
Old 05-18-2004, 07:39 AM
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SDR-Hammer
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Dave, the question really isn’t why would you but can you?

An airplane is giving you everything it’s got and the grass really needs to be mowed, can you coax it off the ground at the last second at the end of the runway? Can you achieve the maximum rate of climb to safely clear an object when you KNOW there is no more throttle?

My son wasn’t advancing nearly as quickly as other people I was training, so I put a larger engine in that airplane. Now that it’s easier to fly, he’s advancing at a phenomenal rate. But did I really do him any favors?

Honestly, once the excitement of getting an airplane like that to a safe altitude is done, flying it bores me to no end.
Old 05-18-2004, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Dave, in my case it was college bound economics, kinda like I wanted the Hemi but could only afford the slant 6. I wanted an OS .46SF BB in the worse way, but could only afford the old K&B .40 that had about as much power as a .049.

Ahh, those were the days[&o]
Old 05-18-2004, 10:30 AM
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FrancisPerson
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

How much fuel did you have for that hour and 39 minute flight?
Old 05-18-2004, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

That's how we learn up here.

Try flying a .40 trainer on an OS .40 LA at 7200' ASL.
Figure a couple hundred feet on take off roll and maximum 20 degree climb (steady). Thank god there aren't any trees at the end of the runway.
I think it should be a skill the everyone should know. How many times have you seen a deadstick not make it to the runway because the pilot didn't know how to manage their airspeed and altitude? This is of course leaving out those deadsticks with planes way out there that glide like a rock.
Old 05-18-2004, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

One of the events we've used in fun flys is called "fast/slow". You need a timekeeper and two volunteers, one at each end of the field.
hehe i did one of those a few months back with my Outlaw Delta, i did the slow on a Master 11x4 and prophung most of the way, i got bored at 52 seconds and throttled out for the last 20 yards of 100 ( their limit was just 30 seconds max???!!!!! ) for my fast the engine died after a long life but still got 94 MPH
i would have got first but his plane did a 120 mph run ( which mine with working bearings can do asleep ) and he maxed the 30 seconds on the slow, my extra 30 or so didn't help, booooooooo hisssssssss

maybe i should suggest one for our club fly for fun.
Old 05-18-2004, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

A dying art that should be left to die?!? I'd hate to see you in a bad situation, or are you one of those guys who "pulls it straight up, and flies out of trouble"?

You don't know a thing if you can't fly that wing!!
Old 05-18-2004, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

I prefer to fly on the wing with my 4* 120 rather than fly on the engine. (st 3000 turning 7600 witha 20x8). At an 80 inch wing that is incredibly wide, I am scared that if I fly the motor the wing will snap. I have seen this huge wing flap in the air under heavy winds. My flights consist of throttle bursts after turns (a quick BRAAAAP! BRAAAP! and thats all) and long idles until it comes time to turn again. The engine is only used in hovers and huge loops. Long live the wing!
Old 05-18-2004, 02:05 PM
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AQ500
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

We had a Hayes 13 oz tank on board that Avistar. The RF 25 Had a 6 oz tank.
Old 05-18-2004, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: Flying on the wing… A dying skill?

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I got a plane like that: A 6 lb. Spacewalker with an O.S. LA .40!

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