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Red Flag was flying high.

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Old 07-04-2002, 11:56 PM
  #1  
Cyclic Hardover
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Maybe you have seen one. Today A guy and a couple of his buddies came out to the field. They brought along the new Hangar 9 P-51 with a nice 4 stroke. They setup next to me and the usually greetings were exchanged and i went about my business.
* It is just the way they did things that were not right. They were just not sure on much of anything and the simplest of adjustments were a blurr to them. I was guessing this could be their "first" plane but if I were wrong, than no more than a "second" plane. Then I had the verification i needed. Now not to look down on a persons finances because i am not that way.
* However here we have this damn nice plane and using a basic Futaba 4 channel transmitter along with some ground equipment which looked new. There was something wrong with this picture.
* To make things worse, one of the local self proclaimed experts stuck his nose it it. This guy recently nailed his Hangar 9 Edge 540 from just being himself. This was the 4th of that size plane this season so far.
* I guess they found some problems with the throttle adjustments and they took it on home but its days are numbered.
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Old 07-05-2002, 12:50 AM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Please help this guy out. It doesn't hurt to ask, and it would really suck if he kills someone.

The same thing happened to me last month. The guy showed up with a brand new Dazzler. Luckily he couldn't get the brand new Tower .46 started. Looking at the type of plane he had, I didn't second guess his experience level. He didn't have a starter, so after watching him flip to no avail, I offered up my starter...only to find out he didn't know how to use it and told us he had never flown before!!! He had fully intended to fire it up and try to take off!!! To make a long story short, an hour or so later, he had some quality stick time on one of our trainers, and got to see his own handiwork take to the skys at the hands of an experienced pilot. He thanked us up and down for stopping him from wrecking his plane he spent all winter building. He said he couldn't believe how hard it was just to fly the trainer. He just plain didn't know. Luckily, No one got hurt, nothing got destroyed, we have a new friend, and he will probably stick with the hobby and have fun with the trainer he is building.
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Old 07-05-2002, 01:22 AM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Instead of playing casino nite with your friend, you missed a good
opportunity to share some of your experience. Were you just
going to sit back and let him risk hurting himself or another pilot,
plus maybe turning a beginner against this great hobby?
You may not be the kind of guy to look down on someones
finances, but you sure were on his ability.

Randy
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Old 07-05-2002, 05:05 AM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Why in the world would you stand back and watch??? That was not very polite!! I don't won't to tell you what you SHOULD have done......... but I WOULD and EVERYONE ELSE at our club with the know how would have really enjoyed taking the time to help someone out. I don't mind shareing my time to help others, if i can't fly today because I am helping someone else, i'll go to the field a little early tomorrow to make up for it......Get off that fence man and lend a hand sometime to a newbie and they will soon be able to lend that same hand to another and our fine hobby will not wither away like a lot of others!!!! But this is just my opinion.....You don't have to like it
Chris
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Old 07-05-2002, 11:17 AM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

I will only help if asked because that puts the liability back in his lap, not mine. This happens alot around here. We also have a local trainer who is very good who represents a store. Several times he has had a student get into a quick mess which the trainer could not get out of and crashes. The student or his parents go back to the store and say "your trainer crashed my plane."
* I help out alot to a point of "giving" out parts like a clevis, fuel line, plugs, screws etc .
* This other guy who I have known for a few years only flys the smaller ,40-60 size sports. He brought out a giant Ultra Sport 1000 with a ST2000. This is way out of his league. He asked me you listen to it. I told him it sounded okay after he tuned it. He did not fly but I am not flying it and do not want to be around when he does because when he gets his hands on it, it's going it hard and i am not taking the responsibility.
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Old 07-05-2002, 12:20 PM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Cyclic, your a selfish man, good thing there aren't more like you in this hobby.
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Old 07-05-2002, 02:49 PM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Originally posted by Cyclic Hardover
I will only help if asked because that puts the liability back in his lap, not mine. "
"when he gets his hands on it, it's going it hard and i am not taking the responsibility.
Pray that when it "goes in hard", it doesn't go into your car, your friend, or you! The liability may be HIS, but YOU will be just as dead.
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Old 07-05-2002, 03:33 PM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

CYCLIC HARDOVER
Why did you delete the part of your post where you stated that you bet your friend $20.00 that the plane would not make it back in one peice??? Did you feel you would catch to much heat from that comment???? It's people like you that make the world the shamefull place that it is today....... well i better stop before the admin boots me just like you would be booted from our club for not lending a hand to a newbie.... you don't have to give them all your flying time..... just enough that they can have a little fun too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my thoughts once again....
you don't have to like them!!!!
Chris
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Old 07-05-2002, 04:07 PM
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SDCrashmaster
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

It's obvious that the "red flag" was not flying high enough.
You just missed a golden opportunity to pass on your knowledge and experience to someone else, which is the ultimate satisfaction in this hobby.
This hobby is all about comraderie. There are far too many club members with a wealth of knowledge, who stay in their own little "safe place" inside their heads, until something happens. Then they'll be the first to say, "I could see it coming" or "I knew they did'nt know what they were doing". All those phrases confirm that you're either, (a) afraid to talk to strangers or make new friends (b) secretly wanting to see something bad happen (c) hate the thought of some a'hole hornin' in on your hobby and taking up flying space and time, or (d) enjoy posting stories that make you appear to be an unfriendly, unhelpful b@$+@rd.
You need to become the biggest, most helpful resource this guy has ever known. And if you don't possess the knowledge yourself, I bet you know the person who does...get them involved. Then post something that will make us all proud of you!
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Old 07-05-2002, 06:40 PM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

SDCrashmaster,
I give you one hell of a pat on the back for that reply!!!!
Good to know that there are more like us out there.
Chris
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Old 07-05-2002, 08:40 PM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Many years and several clubs ago, I got talking to a fellow who always came to the field and watched. He was watching for over a year when I struck up a conversation with him. Larry was a quiet guy but really fell in love with the hobby. I asked him what he was building - he told me - and said it was his second one. I asked him where his first was, why gee, bring it out and I'd help him with it. It seems he brought his first one out about six months earlier, came to the field just as someone else was packing up. Larry got up the courage to ask the guy leaving if he would help him fly his plane, and the other guy said sure. The two of them put it together, fueled it up, started it, and placed it on the runway. The other guy lined it up, powered it down the field and got about 15-20 seconds of 'flight' before he ran it into the ground. He handed the Tx to Larry and said that is what usually happens to his planes also - and took off. Seems the other guy was trying to teach himself how to fly by himself. After that I took Larry under my wing so to speak and taught him to fly.

When I do run into people who think they can teach themselves how to fly I offer one bit of advice with a request - take a picture first and let me know when you are going to attempt it - I like to watch crashes, especially if it someone elses plane - the picture will remind you of all the work and $ you put into the plane and lost in about 10 seconds. I have never had anyone take that advice yet.

This hobby is all about fun and friends - it isn't fun or being friendly to watch a newbie crash and lose his investment. It doesn't have to be a newbie either - if I see someone in over their head, I walk over and start talking to them and offer help. Most people know they are in over their heads but are afraid of asking for help - and resent it when the know-it-alls come and criticize. With a non-threatening approach and a friendly offer of help, most are grateful and don't turn it down. In the meantime you help promote the safe enjoyment of a wonderful hobby - and maybe make a new friend.

Oh yeah, I do think that it is every club members obligation to make sure their fellow club members are following all the rules of the club - which can cover lots of ground including newbies that need help. I do beleive that your AMA insurance coverage is at risk unless you operate as such.

Dan
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Old 07-05-2002, 11:11 PM
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Default Agreed

I have to jump in on this one too.

When I moved here (Alaska) I had already been flying RC since the late 1960s. I joined the club, went to the meetings, and soon afterward, went to the flying field.

No one was rude or insulting, but several of the more experienced flyers came over and casually took a look at my equipment while chatting a little, and sort of got a feel for my experience. I could sense this, and volunteered a little extra information on how I built the plane, some past experiences, etc., and everyone was more relaxed. I also made a point of asking "where not to fly", etc., so they knew I was paying attention.

From the few polite questions they asked me, they would've known if I was a newbie in disguise, and then would've intervened and offered some help. Why not? When you help someone, you feel better, they feel better, and we all learn from the experience.

Safety is FIRST in my book, and it begins on the building table. If you and your plane are safe, THEN you can enjoy the hobby so much more. Nobody wants a crash, even if it's done with no injuries. It just creates bad vibes in general, and discourages new people from participating.

When you just stand by at a distance and do nothing, you are asking for trouble.
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Old 07-06-2002, 01:30 AM
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Default Wow - These replies make me glad I am in this hobby

As someone who has only been flying for 6 months, it's great to see so many positive replies from such experienced flyer's. If I were to find myself in the same situation as like the poor guy with the P-51 who got no help from his fellow flyers, I would hope to have folks like you around to help! (and not elitists like some flyers out there).

This is the kind of attitude that will encourage newbies to stay in this great sport!
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Old 07-06-2002, 02:18 AM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Originally posted by rc_sport
Cyclic, your a selfish man, good thing there aren't more like you in this hobby.
You bet! This is a public field I use and every body and their mother can come out. AMA or not. It can become quite exciting at times. Those of you who have private club fields are fortunate and have control over stuff like this
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Old 07-06-2002, 03:08 AM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

Public or private, you could still help out. I'm a club instructor and test pilot. It doesn't take a lot of time to help out and you meet some really nice people. I agree that you are selfish and I really hope that the bet was just a joke. I at least give credit to the flyer that tried to help out, out of his league or not, at least he tried. It's easy to stand in the on deck circle and criticize, it's a whole different game when you have to stand at the plate and help out. I hope all of these posts raise a red flag with you!!!
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Old 07-06-2002, 03:33 AM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

i like to help newbies out just because i get to fly some really nice planes sometimes. and a trainer can be fun on it s maiden voyage. plus when i help out i usually get more flight time. i fly there plane and my plane. safety should always be first. go over offer a helping hand check out there plane fly it for them give them the controls and get to recover a plane from it s doom and keep it from hitting my best friend in the head. hey it don't get any better than that. but i the guys behalf that started this post maybe he is a trainee also and just doesn't know any better and it lies in the his trainers and other club members laps as to what happened at there field. some people just dont realize that your flying a missile. and if mis guided it can KILL. the the thrill of the wreck is shot down when your friend is dead. think about the out come before you let something go down.
my .02 cents worth
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Old 07-06-2002, 04:28 AM
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Default Red Flag was flying high.

After 3 years of flying most weekends, and with a number of different planes I'm always at least curious about how someone else has their stuff set up, so that's how I introduce myself. If I see some gross errors, I speak up and tell them that in MY experience it'll work better another way.

I've also helped guys that other "instructors" have helped by setting up their plane to the instructors experience level instead of the student's. Even trainers can be way too sensitive if set up for someone who likes to fly inverted passes. In one case I reduced all the throws to minimum and the student was actually able to land the plane himself with some gentle persuasion. I expect to see him back pushing a little each time till he needs a better plane.

We just suspended a flyer for being "unsafe". Two months suspension of priviledges (and revocation if he's caught flying during that time) and four months of probation. He had already crashed two planes in one day and smoked the third one in BEHIND the flight line without so much as an "Oh oh". 100 yard debris field and it was during our opening day with lots of people watching. So whenever a "new face" shows up at the field, a LOT of people are interested in looking at what he brings, how he checks his equipment, his range check, and his demeanor.

If its all new equipment, we ask if he's flown a long time, and actually scrutineer his plane. We offer to fix/repair/advise his equipment. If he's uncooperative, we check for his AMA card, and if he doesn't have one, we let him know that he's welcome to do anything he wants but fly. If he has one, everyone grounds their planes until we see how he flys.

In today's world, ANY breach of safety puts all of us at risk of either accident or losing fields. We fly on a country park field that we developed and built, and yes, everyone has the right to fly, but we made certain that the county gave us the power to enforce safety on anyone.
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