Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I need to get some ideas about what to do with one of my flight students.

Background; The student is 13 years old and kind of flighty. He really doesn't want to pay attention. He generally fails to do one or more things that are required of him prior to arriving at the field. Examples are charging his radio (twice), and failing to make needed repairs to his plane, again twice. He expects me to do these things for him, it seems. He doesn't even try to do anything for himself.

I have 5 other students, often on the same day, and build professionally for others in addition to my full time occupation. His casual attitude is detracting severely from the time I have to devote to the more enthusiastic students, and from my personal flying time. As a footnote, I fly only one day a week (Sunday), and work at a regular job 5 days a week (12 hour days) and every other Saturday. Time is something I don't have to lose.

Do I keep trying to teach him at the expense of all the others? Do I dump the kid or pass him off to someone else if they will take him? Do I have another serious "talk' with the kid and his parents in the attempt to get their attention? Or is there another choice.

I've reached the end of a manageable temper with him and I'm looking forward to an equitable solution.

tIANci

Do the club rules allow you to smack a student? That will work pretty well! Seriously, you have a bad student. This hobby is about discipline. If he cannot make the cut then cut him off. It seems harsh but that is better than knowing one day that this kid will start to fly acrobatic planes and then forgets to charge his RX batteries and the plane ends up on some other kids butt.

We had a problem this weekend at our flying field (no club). A newbie flies a Seagull Zero, can't land and will not want to learn how to land it. Always gets the LHS owner to land it for him. All goes fine for the last 2 months till yesterday. Newbies calls for assistance in landing, LHS takes over controls, plane has no elevator,plane crashes. Newbie gets totally pissed off and demands an explanation for crash, he throws a fit! Its not the LHS owner's fault but it got ugly. So why be too nice Silver?

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

I'd have one more talk with the parents and the kid. Tell them what you just told us, as well as the concern over safety if he continues his lax ways after solo. Then tell them that if he shows up unprepared again you will not be able to continue training him.

tIANci,
That is exactly why I always give my little disclaimer statement before I take the controls of anyone else's plane. I say something like, "Yes, I'll maiden your plane (or take you up on the buddy box, or...) and I'll do my best to get it back safely and without damage, but if it crashes you must realize that I am not responsible for the plane or any damage". "If that's acceptable to you, let's fly."

It may not keep someone from getting upset, but at least they can't (reasonably) expect me to replace it.

As an example, a couple weeks ago a new guy had a T-34 Mentor that he wanted me to maiden. It was out a ways, over very tall brush when it went dead stick. (I had tested the engine and it was tuned properly.) I extended the glide as long as I could but it went in. 4 of us spent over an hour looking for it in brush ten feet tall, including thick briars. We never found it and it's still out there somewhere. (We even used a compass to getr a good bearing on it.) He was unhappy about it, but not angry with me. (I was more upset with myself than he was.)
Dennis-

Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

If I have a student that fails to follow instrutions and seems to forget a lot I just pass him on. It doesn't sound like he has much enthusiasm for the hobby and parents who make excuses for him would be the bottom line.

I'd bail out.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I used to teach SCUBA diving for many years. For my first couple of years I tried to accomodate everyone no matter how helpless they seemed to be for fear of discouraging or upsetting them. I finally took a new approach when someone was unteachable and just flat out told them maybe this just isn't for you. The surprising thing was that the vast majority of the time they were happy that I confirmed what they had been thinking but didn't want to disapoint me.

It sounds like the kid just really isn't into the hobby, isn't mature enough for it or is being pressured by his parents to continue. Maybe if you were just blunt about it and gave him an out he'd be happier to sit home and watch television instead. Let's face it this hobby isn't for everyone and we are not obligated to save the world for RC by bringing in every new person that comes along.

Your time is to valuable to have a student that you don't enjoy teaching and whatever imagined consequence that is holding you back from telling the kid and parents how you feel will be much less painful in reality than the frustration you are feeling now.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Yes your time is precious, make no bones about it select your students very carefully and don,t be shy about it either or you will be 'used' by some out there. You are not a babysitter.

John

scottrc

I too would sit down with this boy and have a eye to eye talk about how serious he wants to fly. Then tell dad too that maybe they should look into something that really excites the boy since he really seems not to want to do RC. Let him know your feelings and that unless he really gets into the game by the next lesson, you must drop him.

DownSideUp

I know there could be more going on than the student showing up unprepared, but why not just do the things with him that he was supposed to do at home and then conclude the lesson. Tell him he doesn't get to fly because you two had to use his flying time to fix the plane. I don't see why you couldn't just give each student a certain amount of time and just do what needs to be done during that time. If it's not flight time then that's too bad, he should have done some "homework". But, like I said, there could be more going on than just that one problem. He could just be a royal pain in the butt. In that case I'd say dump him as fast as you can

AIRPLANENUTS

My Feedback: (2)

I like the "three strikes and you're out" approach. Give him two warnings, and on the third occasion he doesn't comply, drop him like a hot rock.

Twenty-five years ago, I was 13 years old, and a kind gentleman taught me to fly r/c, on his plane, no less. However, before each lesson, he made me cut his grass landing strip, which made me appreciate the lesson, because I earned it. I couldn't afford, nor would my parents buy, an r/c plane of my own. I would have loved to have what your student has. If he doesn't appreciate his plane or your valuable time, he does not deserve either. His parents are making a mistake in making excuses for him. He'll never learn to be a man by being molly-coddled.

Someone needs to wake his little spoiled butt up.

doggscube

My Feedback: (1)

Who paid for the plane? The kid or Mom & Dad? If the latter, tell them that it is likely that he'll never solo with that attitude. Not many parents tolerate throwing away money.

If they don't care, or the kid paid for it, just cut the cord. Write an open letter to them detailing what needs to be resolved before he can start again. Put a copy on the bulletin board at the field to forestall any backlash.

If the kid really cares and is just forgetful/lazy, maybe make a checklist that he needs to go over with his parents before heading to the field. Regular stuff like charging, bringing all support equip., etc., and a weekly list of repairs/adjustments he needs to make. Tell the parents clearly that this has to be done by the kid before leaving the house.

-Jeff

tIANci

Let's talk about disclaimers here, in the UK recently there was a sad situaiton. Mr A allows Mr B to try out his plane ... plane crashes ... Mr A takes Mr B to the Small Claims Court, Court rules in favour of Mr A! So where do we go from here?

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Best approach is to have a chat with the kid and his parents together. Talk about the issues, talk about what needs to happen in order for him to stay as your student - give them a warning that if things don't change you will not be his instructor. There is no shame in dumping a student if he does not do his part.

I am not a club flight instructor per se, but I have taught quite a few people to fly. I have generally worked with adults, but I have had a few kids. For the most part, the kids learned faster and respected my advise more than the adults, and nearly all of them are in the hobby because they want to be. I have had a few lazy ones from both groups and did not hesitate to cut them.

Quite frankly, this hobby is not for everyone. Those that did not catch on, were dangerous or were not willing to listen and respond immediatley to feedback I cut loose. Those that came unprepared (i.e. low batteries, equipment not airworthy, etc.) did not fly.

I give one warning and the next time they screw up they are out. I'ts just like school - you either want to learn or you don't and you take it seriously. Since I am donating my time it makes it even more important that the student want to learn and be prepared....


There is nothing more rewarding than seeing a kid thrilled at accomplishing something, but you can't do it for him...
DP

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

The student bought the plane through his parents. They initially paid for it and the radio, but the student had to work for his father to pay off the debt.

The students' father, according to his wife, is not skilled in the use of hand tools or craftmanship. That would leave little in the area of mechanical knowledge that the student could learn from his father.

I can understand where the students' attitude was developed, and also his inability to gain knowledge from his parents. Unfortunately, I do not have the time or the desire to take on the responsibility of becomming a Sunday "foster parent".

I have no qualms about teaching anyone to fly. I do it because I enjoy doing it. But, I expect anyone I am going to teach to put at least as much effort into learning as I do into teaching. Especially since I teach at no charge.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Hmmmm to busy with his Harley ehh but no skills with his hands, ya sure. Plain and simple 'You are being used as a babysitter'. The implications of being caught in this trap are scarry indeed.

On several occassions I have had mothers bring out somewhat younger kids with airplanes and field gear all new then suddenly disappear for the whole day without a word! Needless to say I am very picky indeed who 'I' choose to work with.

You owe this young man and the somewhat irresponsible parents nothing! BAIL

John

Righty

I knew my parents wpuldn't just fork over 500+ dollars for me to start flying so i took a school program with the army reserves and made some cash during the winter. Spring break came and I bought myself an alpha. Now this wasn't an impulse thing. I had wanted to get an RC plane two summers before hand but wasn't legal working age so i just researched into RC. The club president was very kind enough to teach me to fly with his couple weeks off before he was deployed overseas, and i thanked him big time. I was always there on time (usually early, couldn't wait to fly) and was always earger for the useful info he would give me. I know how much time he took to teach me, and thats something i don't think i could have the nerves for.

bottom line... If he doesn't want to be there, or prepared to fly. why should you waste your time.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I regularly work with a large group of kids, building and flying planes. I dont want or need to run a "baby sitting service" and plain and simple unless they are prepared to give it 100% (and the interested ones allways do!) I dont ask them to come out again.

Its not fair to me, or to the other kids either.

I would suggest that if the student isnt prepared to really concetrate and try and be prepared, let him "go" and maybe he will see that the instructor's time is not meant for wasting...

AJC

rw Guinn

You are correct - the parents are using you to teach the kid some self-discipline and responsibility. I would have a heart to heart with the kid only, outlining what he has to do before the next lesson. I would also let him know some people to contact if he has difficulty-and let them know the situation. (every club has the guys who are helpers for newbies)
I would then tell the parents the deal- he knows what he has to do, and if he hasn't done it, I am not the instructor he needs.
To teach someone, you must have their respect. You apparently don't have his, and there is no way he will learn from you under those circumstances.

Roger

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

When I started about 8 years ago, I brought my boy in at the time too. Although I went the distance, he just wanted to fly around with not much discipline in procedure and could have cared less. He is now 20 and a 4.0 student at UNM. I did not want to force him to have fun.

Was learning to fly his idea or his parents? Brute honesty to his parents and blow him off. You do not have time to fix his plane and get it ready when you have 5 other kids. You need to oput an end to it now. This is why I do not instruct. Lessons were on Saturdays only, Yet whenever I'm out their, students would show up on my time and expect me to spend it with them. I said no.

I do not agree with having a talk with the kid. Let the parents do it and tell the parents its over unless he takes responsibility. Our local instructor sometimes gets overwhelmed with normal problems so if I am between flights standing around, I'll make sure the planes are ready to go to help him save time fooling with them.

Live Wire

You can not blame the young people it is the way they are raised. They learn from what they are taught and they see and here at home!! LOOKING FOR A BABY SITTER IT'S TO LATE.

tIANci

Sounds like forced piano lessons? Hahahahaaa ... I started out at 16, parents had no idea about planes etc, I wanted to fly. I learnt it all and I went through the drill of safety etc, never bought an electric starter till today but never got clipped by a prop. Maybe back then life was different, we saw Nikes but did not really have them, no I am NOT that old, just that back in the 80's here things were not as lavish as today.

Like the manual says ... THIS IS NOT A TOY!

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

My thanks to all of you. My original thoughts were pretty much as the vast majority have posted, and that's it's time to cut the cord. I just did not want to think that I was cutting him off prematurely.

I have tried as best as I can to present the situation factually and with as little bias as possible. Others at the field have seen the situation and have voiced that I should walk away, but nobody else at the club teaches on weekends. I just wanted to be certain that I wasn't being selfish with my time at his expense.

Thanks again.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

If he cannot do what is asked of him, how will you ever really teach him to fly. I would devote time to others and tell him once he gets his plane ready, to let you know.... Then walk away.

H. Wayne S

My Feedback: (18)

Spank his Mama[X(] . Then tell him to take a hike.

tIANci

Wayne ... you need help!!! May I assist you in the spanking? Hahahaaaaa ...

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

if i had a student turn up ( and i was that busy ) with a un-prepped plane, i'd say ah well, you screwed up there, maybe next weekend.

if you muck up, you get conquences.
with some students i've also been VERY harsh on the trainer switch, if i know they can do what i ask but they let their concentration slip and drift off line or deviate i'll take it back and have a play for a while ( not just put it back on track ), they soon start concentrating as they want to fly it.

carrot and stick.