Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

Since 2003 our suburban Chicago flying club has been trying to hang onto its existence in the presence of a neighbor complaining about noise. For years this AMA'd club has leased privately from a farmer, but in 2003 he sold out to the county forest preserve district. This is in far northwest suburban Chicago in an area that is growing pretty fast. In our club there has been the feeling that we over needed to accommodate the complaining neighbor or lose the field forever. Guys from the club went to the complainers lawn and yes, you could really hear airplanes.

In late 2003 a club committee was formed to explore the sound issue and come up with solutions and a measurable sound maximum from the airplanes. For the last two seasons gasoline aircraft were banned at the field, including mine. After two years of flying we had no further complaints. We have re-oriented our flightline a bit to distance ourselves from the neighbors that at the closest are about 1000' from our furthest corner of the flight box. We also now have measurements of the sound output of our planes.

After two years of messing with this issue and living with a ban on all gasoline powered planes, we are entering the 2005 season with simple rule regarding sound. Gasoline is no longer banned. Instead, we have a maximum ground sound level that will ban all (noisy) airplanes over 95dBA measured at 25'. If we have to reduce this 95dBA number in the future, we will.

I have four or five documents of supporting data, articles, etc... and I have our club policy on sound. If this is useful to ANYONE just say the word and I will be happy to share it. Best email is [email protected]

-Cheech



[hr]

SOUND RULES at ELGIN RC
March 2005

Elgin R/C Sound Group


Purpose
To ensure that model flying does not cause a noise nuisance to neighboring sites and dwellings

To actively promote effective noise suppression of members aircraft by regular noise testing and giving help and advice to members on reduction techniques.

To promote an enthusiasm for a commitment to continuous noise reduction to below statutory levels*.

Plan
This plan will use a ground measure to ensure that the sound output of our models is reduced. All aircraft suspected to be at or near the maximum ground sound level will be ground tested. They must be within stated max dBA in order to fly.

The maximum ground sound level for all classes shall be: 95 dBA measured on soft surfaces. Club Officers may implement exceptions due to unusual conditions.

Standard Method of Sound Measurement
The sound measurement shall be taken with the sound meter set to the "A" weighting, slow response with windscreen installed. The sound meter shall be placed twenty-five feet from the model centerline and positioned in line with the prop arc at twenty-four inches in height. The sound meter shall be pointed directly at the model and perpendicular to the fuselage. The model being measured shall have its engine run at full power for the sound test. No noise reflecting objects will be allowed within three feet of the sound meter.

Ground Sound Level Test
Any model suspected of meeting or exceeding the maximum ground sound level must pass the Ground Sound Level Test. Models successfully completing the test will not be measured again unless their sound level is deemed to have increased significantly since the initial check. Any plane that fails the test will not fly unless given permission due to unusual conditions.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Reason # 6,351 why I left Chicago !


It amazes me when people build homes near drag strips, race tracks, airports, train tracks, biker bars with 100's of Harleys and other noise sources.. and then they whine about the noise and try to get it regulated or outlawed.

When I lived in the NW suburbs (Long Grove / Barrington / Palatine) I watched everything I like to do get taken away or regulated to death there as a result of the overbuilding. I finally had enough and move to Phoenix... unfortunately THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING HERE.

I guess the days of a totally free USA are done.
Oh to be back in the 70s and 80s again!

DP

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Mark,

A bunch of us are flying in Manteno this Sunday.
You should come down if you dont have anything going on.

Let me know if you need directions.

aaron2874

I couldn't have said it better. The funny thing is, so often these people that come after the track, airfield, etc. ... are successful at getting rid of something that was already there before them. Often times YEARS before them. This just makes me sick. I'm starting to wonder if we should change how we spell Ameri'k'a...

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

Yeah, the racetrack and train reference hits home. I didn't mention it, but the nearest homeowners to our field have a highway in their backyard and a railroad in close earshot. That stuff doesn't really matter, though. The feeling is that it is much simpler to get rid of the flying field than deal with an irate homeowner.

-Cheech

BTW, the land that the field is on is raised a few inches above what is basically a swampy weedpatch, probably a wetland. It's not directly suitable for housing but the surrounding area is.

scottrc

What drives me insane about these suburban noise nazis is that they are the ones who run a leave blower, snowblower, weedeater, and own a Harley. Not to mention let their 4 kids run willy nilly around the neighborhood screaming at the top of their lungs. How many of them own dogs that are in kennels in the back yard that bark day in and day out? Then there are the city utility workers, construction workers, trains, and the freeway. They love to produce noise in the name of middle class America.

Flying fields are being lost to development not because of noise, but because of land value. What developer would not want to have land that is perfectly flat and probably already has water and electricity to it? Many of these suburbs are associations/corporations that will buy the land to either sell out to a private homeowner for a premium, or to build a park or community center on.

I really think your noise program is a really good one, and I hope that the neighborhood doesn't come up with some other excuse to drive you out in order to take your land.

Scott

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

We live in a forest and I break my engines in on my driveway. So far no complaints. The first one I hear I will respond with "Go to the Town Council and have all chainsaws restricted. One guy who mentioned it was told that and I haven't heard a word since. Our field is not near enough to bother anyone.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Ballgunner-
Just wait a few years.. the virus that is killing the rest of our open land will eventually encroach on you too.

Some greedy developer will buy the land cheap, then slap up dozens of fiber board cookie cutter houses and you will have another Prescott Valley!


Cheech - that picture is amazing. Its like a tumor - it started small and just started growing.. there is nothing around there except for that little development. No doubt a few years from now it will all be gone. TYPICAL.. lets jam some more people in there.

Where is your field, I am trying to place it in my mental map of NW Ill.

Better fly now and enjoy your land while you still can!!!
DP

staggerwing

My Feedback: (5)

Desertpig,

Come to Wyoming, not very many people, lots of open space to fly with no sound worries. The wind blows the noise to Nebraska

Rich


--------------------------------


Wyoming Wind Festiva Jan 1 to Dec 31

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

They're working on that now but so far the land is to hilly for us to fly on any old how. Come on up to our fun fly at the Rye field on the 30th of April. No one bothers us there.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Rich -
I spend a lot of time in Wyoming.. that's the problem! WIND.. its hard to ride Harleys, Quads, or fly when you're fighting 40 MPH winds and breathin the dust! Do you ever get a windless day there?? Then of course there's those winters.. !
I have a lot of fun there... some nice riding too around the tetons and snake river. Got some good bar friends in Tensleep and Cody!

If I could live anywhere (and be able to afford it) I would love to have 40 acres about 10 miles North of Jackson Hole !
There is a mountain ridge there with lots of prarie and hardly any people that would take your breath away...
DP

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

The nearest incorporated town is Gilberts, IL. This is out in the high growth area of Algonquin/Lake-In-The-Hills out north of I-90 (northwest tollway) at Randall Road. It's quickly filling up with thousand-home subdivisions, mini malls, gas stations, etc....

-Cheech

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

Hey Marc, this is just what I was looking for. Brian J emailed me your rules this morning. Our club ( Gasser are banned) is going through the same issues. I'm trying to get a noise law inforced also, not just to allow gas engines but to stop loud glow motors from flying. We recently had a .30 2 stroke glow that was reading 100db's at 9', what a screamer. We banned gas years ago when our field was almost shut down due to a singlar complaint but back then gasser were loud and glow motors were smaller. Now the reverse is taking place. Thanks for the ammo.
Robert

PS. we met out at the fly-in in Rockford last year. I had the Skybolt.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

I know right where that is.. When I think of Northwest I think of Barrington, Palatine.. you are real Northwest!
A good biker friend of mine (RIP) used to live on Pyott road.. they really turned that whole area into a giant clusterF*** didn't they?

That intersection of 31 and 62 has to be about one of the worst in the country. Randall Road at 31 is no picnic either.

My P's live in Del Webb way out in BFE Huntley.. even that area is getting packed now.. ! Last time I visited (Oct last year) 47 was a parking lot.

Unvelieveable You gotta like the greed developers (Pulte is one of the worst) slap up cheapo houses first, then worry about the choked roads and skyrocketing taxes later!

DP

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Scott - you should know by now ... screaming, whining brats and out of control barking dogs is white noise... only things with engines are what people whine about.


I live in Cave Creek, AZ - it was a little western party town, lots of bars and had a real cool old west feel to it. It was a huge popular stop for everyone who rides a motorcycle - Harley or otherwise. Unfortunately you have to pass through Carefree to get to Cave Creek, and well, the richies moved in and started building houses literally 5 feet from the road and now the idiots don't like the Harley noise.. so what did they do? They whined and whined until the government passed a freakin "noise ordinance" that gives anyone a $200 ticket if their bike is too loud. It specifically targets bikes.. yep. The cops have noise sniffers on their cars now and they sit on the the only two entrances to the town of Cave Creek fishing for prey. Needless to say most of the bikes don't come any more... so now the town is no longer fun, its all snowbirds and gaffers. I guess that's what they wanted.


Our airfield is literally in the middle of nowhere. Three years ago the nearest house was at least 4 miles away.. but alas.. the
cookie cutter dense pack junk kept moving North and now there are houses 1.5 miles away, built in a flood plain, may I mind you. (believe it or not we can get huge floods here) The club has a noise ordinance and just started enforcing it about a year ago as some moron actually did complain he "heard buzzing" from almost 2 miles away.

Absolutely gets my blood boiling. I wish people would just have some common sense and either accept the noise if they insist on moving to a noisy area.. or better yet, move somewhere else.

DP

staggerwing

My Feedback: (5)

Desertpig:

Come to the high plains desert of the Wind River Valley--120 miles east of Jackson Hole, 120 east of Casper. We don't have the winds like Casper and Cheyenne. We get plenty of flying time in. We know it's too wind with the logging chain windsock is sticking straight out. Backward landings are part of the training for new pilots.

We are nestled in the valley of the Wind River (best snow machine territory in the US), Absoraka, and Owl Creek Mountains. Winter here isn't bad, we've only missed four weekends of flying because of the weather this winter. Land here is plentiful and a lot cheaper than Jackson Hole.

Our field is in Riverton. Check out our website: www.wyomingmodelerspark.com and stop in and visit the next time you are riding up this way.

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

I absolutely remember you well, Robert. When BJ and I were talking about this yesterday he asked that I send him the stuff, that it was for a local field that needs a fair policy. He didnt give much in the way of details. I didn't know it was for you.

We put a bunch of time and thought into this plane and I feel it is fair and equitable. I doubt it will save a field that is already in trouble, but that is not us yet.

desertpig, you are correct. This place is filling up with people too fast. We are about 1/3 the way in between Huntley and Algonquin; ripe to be over-run. I think that's why the forest perserve district bought a bunch of ground out here. Our sound policy has more to do with good citizenship and proactive good faith effort than it does with trying to keep a field forever. If the day comes when county gonvernment wants us out there won't be much we coyld do about it.

-Cheech

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

desertpig, are you going to be at the AMPS Fun FLy Saturday?

smokingcrater

95 db at 25 feet? that is LOUD!!! someone mentioned 100 db at 9 feet, without doing the math, but that is significantly quieter. it also makes a huge difference at what frequency it is at, and whether measured with A or C weighting. a gasser at 95 db is going to sound quieter then a .15 turning 25k at 95 db.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

I was thinking the same thing.

Our club has a noise limit too, 93 dB (on the A scale) at 9 feet.
Dennis-

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

We basically looked at our data, much of wihich were the the non-gas planes that flew WITHOUT COMPLAINT for two seasons. Looking at the highest of those we found the least quiet to be 94 dB on the A scale. We then added 1 dB for fudge factor, bad wind, different meter, etc...

Here is a look at some of the data, abbreviated for posting. I have other notes, measurements at 9' and additional data that is not shown.



If you are using a ground sound measurement, you really cannot factor in frequency. It is either above a stated maximim sound level or it is not. Trust me when I say it is hard to get a group to agree on ANYTHING. Keeping it simple is best.

-Cheech

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

93 dBA is pretty quiet. That is a .46-.52 2 stroke on stock exhaust or a quiet four stroke. But it is definitely a small glow motor or an electric. I don't think you could fly many 1.20+ size planes that would come in at 93 at 9'.

Here are some 9' measurements.


.40FX, std muffler, 89 dBA at 9'
.46FX, std muffler, 91 dBA at 9'
Saito 50, 91 dBA at 9'
.46ASP, std muffler, 92 dBA at 9'
Saito 80, 90 dBA at 9'
Saito 180, 101 dBA at 9'
32SX, performance muff, 103 dBA at 9'

-Cheech

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

At our field we will be implementing a 98 db at 9' rule. The plane will in a stand that places the plane 3' off he ground. The meter will be on the muufler side, if it's on the side, down wind from the plane. We use the C weighting because that is closest to the human ear. We also have a Frequency Analyser to adjust the db according to the frequency. Higher pitch motors will have to meet a lower db rating.

kwelz

My Feedback: (6)

RC seems to be going through the same problems that shooting ranges have.
A lot of ranges are being shut even though they have been there for decades. People move close to them KNOWING that they are there. And then they complain, lie, and just make trouble in general till the place is shut down.

You can thank Urban Sprawl and the "only I can be right" attitude.

scottrc

Desertpig - Sounds like those residents found that loud Harleys = Revenue = Lower taxes.

Throw that bone at them, yea, they'd let you keep your field if you pay a yearly "noise pollution" tax. Then for the guys on the Left Coast, there will be the "Ozon depletion tax", "violation of running two stroke tax", "Spilling of hazoudous substance tax", "Cutting of old growth, wild grasslands tax", "Human violation onto ancient wetlands tax" and the "intteruption of Spotted Owl Migration tax".

Face it, no matter what solution we come up with, they will find another problem.

Scott