Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Many of you are aware from past postings that our field is top of the line and near clone to an AMA design. Owned and maintained by the city and and of course on city property.

For years it was out in the middle of nowhere and the "burbs" have finally arrived and within earshot I might add. We knew it would happen someday but that day has arrived. I would venture to guess that about 3 years from now, the whining will begin. Now the city has for the most part , gave a good nod on a new field somewhere else when it comes down to this and this is good.

An educated guess is that the current field will go electric and possibly helicopters but this is only a guess. Here is what I am asking for thoughts on as I may have to draft up a proposal over the next few months and i need ideas.

2 strokes, 4 strokes and gas have three distinctive different sounds and this is nothing new. There is no doubt that the 2stroke and the gassers will have to leave. Thing is 4 strokes no matter what the size have a very distinctive muffled sound in a low tone-even when going over 100mph or in a Cub.

I need some material here to make a positive argument and promote the use of a fourstroke

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

If, as you say, your facility is provided by the city you are blessed. If, however, you atempt to limit your choice of engines you will run headlong into a council person who won't stand still for discrimination of any sort. Been there, done that, with a boat launching ramp for a full scale yacht club. First thing was what type of boats will you launch and do you have to belong to the club to use the facility? Cost us a bunch to buy our own property and build another clubhouse. Built a basin for boats too large for dry storage and then the City took it over because it ws on the shore line. They issued the permits and then just took over. No compensation for the docks we built and they even took the rent money and assigned the slips.
If I sound bitter it's because I am. Dealt with to many "politically correct" types and took too much public abuse at council meetings and to make matters worse the only newspaper in town was in the hip pockets of the council. The words Yacht Club are just a good substitute for model airplane flying club.

Mettler1

Doesn't look good. #1 you could try to cut the noise level. That could hold them off for awhile. #2 would be a good neighbor. Hold a club picnic some evening or Saturday and personally invite the neighbors. Go to their houses and hand out fliers. We do a Veterans day fly-in. We get the local Veterans facility to bring out the veterans for the day for a picnic. Again, invite the neighbors.Heck, we even give out several fruit baskets to our nearest neighbors for Christmas. If you can't afford that send cards. We put on three fly-ins a year and always invite the neighbors. The thing is to let them se names and face of the people in their community. Become part of their neighborhood. If you fly seven days a week sun up to sunset you might want to give them some quiet time It has gotten so we know all the neighbors and they know us. We even had one call the cops on teenagers doing donuts on our field. He even blocked the drive way until the cops got there!!! I think you get the point. Be a good neighbor. It goes a long way.

If you don't think that will work take the city offer of a new field NOW!! Get it now and start getting ready for the move!!

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

Well; your first obsticle is of course expense. Not everyone can afford a decent 4stroke. Second is they aren't right for every application of airplane...

I digress; your best bet I think is to NOT specify 4strokes but specify a specific db as the rules of the field. I realize that it doesn't cover the intensity of the sound - 4 strokes have a lower pitch and thus sound quieter at the same db rating as a 2 stroke which has a higher pitch. If there isn't a way to measure it then you will have a hard time making a rule based on it that can be interpreted appropriately.

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

Mettler1's advice sounds like the best course of action...but being a good neighbor will only go so far in the world of the Burbs. Eventually, you will run across someone who needs a crusade, and the rest of them will follow. Seriously- if the city is willing to relocate you, better pursue that option vigorously while it is an option!

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

I am going to go agains common widom here...

In my opinion the the 4-strokes sound, while more pleasant, actually carries further than the 2-stroke sound. I say this based on personal observation. I can clearly hear 4-strokes 1/2 mile away from our field while 2-strokes are virtually inaudible.

For some reason, I don't know the physics, higher pitched sounds are more attenuated as they travel.

BigSkyRCFlyer

My Feedback: (36)

Exactly, Ditto to what Mettler1 said, if you can't move. Moving would be the best as others have said, if you are truly worried about the close proximity of the houses now and over the next few years. Good luck!

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

When this happens , I am darn near almost remotely positve it wil go electric, Was thinking of attempting to persuade them to allow 4 strokes.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Mettler's advice works pretty well for our field. There ar houses right at the north end of our runway and at the periphery of our overfly area 1/3 of the way around the field, but our neighbors enjoy having us there. We invite them all the time to come and watch, the local VFD caters our events (the house at the end of the runway belongs to the Asst. Chief). We deliver Poinsettias to all the neighbors at Christmas (personally, with cards). They don't even mind us wandering around their yards looking for the occasional lost plane.

I know this is probably the exception rather than the rule. I never will understand the mindset that will tolerate lawnmowers and weedeaters right next door but complains about the more distant buzz of much smaller , but similar engines.(our planes)

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

mettler1 your club is a mile ahead of the average. Congratulations to the club as a whole, or at least to the officers and committeemen who put you on the right track. What is the population of your town? Do you have a youth program as well?
Whatever, the results indicate you are on the right track. Keep up the good work and perhaps the rest of AMA will learn from you.

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

Electrics are very cool man; I've recently been dabbling in small ones and have been surprised at how nice it is because of how simple the operation is at the field (or park). Charging batteries is much easier than wiping up oil...

Though...I really loves my engines...

Avistar 2

Have you priced Electric brushless motors lately
thier too darn exspenive! And 4 stroke model engines are alraming priced
best bet is find a better muffler with a slienter.
or you can demand a park for gas planes only
start a partion to have a park build for guys,
raise heck at the city officals.

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

We are going through the same think at our field, all it takes is one crabby neighbor. We have been doing extensive sound testing and this is what we found so far. It's not only the db's that make a motor appear loud, it's also the frequency of the noise. The higher the frequency the louder it seems. Motors should be tested with a db meter and a spectrum analyzer, the higher the frequency the lower the maximum db level that that motor can't exceed.

I would try to make as many friends with the neighbors as possible, there is strength in numbers. Go into the neighborhood and listen to the noise. Bring a db meter and see how loud the planes are there. Most towns have noise levels that are enforeced at the homeowners property line, say 65dbs. Make sure you set the db meter to the A weighting because that simulates the human ear.

Avistar 2

I been with guys at our field who fly 2 stoke engines planes with mufflers
I heard a nice quite engines,
and from where I live it sounds more mosquito buzzing around not a very loud noise to bother
anyone at all, really there's answer for this problem

Hossfly

Sometimes fighting "Noise" is just butting your head against the wall, however we must keep on doing it.

When I was AMA D-VI VP '79-'82, one of the main things that was so frustrating was fighting "Noise" complaints for the large SOAR Club down just south of the Chicago area. Go figger!!

One of the major thorns in the model flier's crown is that some people just don't like to see other people enjoying themselves. [:'(]

A Big question is just how far must modelers be driven away from the urban areas? I think that there are programs that could well enhance our acceptance among local governmental groups. The word is coming to you.

Avistar 2

Yes how true,
they should get a model and try the fun....

donhef

My club has recently gone through this as well. We fly on a decommissioned land fill that has neighbors 3/4 to 1 mile away at the closest. We have been flying at this site for approximately 6 years before the following incident happened.

One of our members was flying his DA-100 powered Sukhoi during a weekday in February this year. We received a complaint about "A weedwacker airplane" flying above a person's house making a loud racket. We went out to investigate and found out that this person's house was almost 2 miles from our field. Our President asked her to describe the offending aircraft and where it overflew her house. It turned out that it didn't come "over" her house, but she saw it while walking her dog. We also have an ultralight airport not too far from our field, so we thought she may have seen one of them.

We told her that we would look into the issue and take sound readings and keep her informed of what was going on. We also invited her to come out to the field to see what we do, to which she declined. When asked if there were other things that made loud noise nearby, she replied, "Well, we do have the regular weedeaters, snowblowers and lawnmowers, but they are okay".

Come April, we had our regular Opening Day festivities, during which we flew anything from 30. to a G-62 powered aircraft. Our President and VP went back to her house to explain to her what was going on and that we were going to take sound readings while flying the different A/C. It turned out that we couldn't go more than 1/2 mile from the field without losing visual contact with the plane. And the sound readings were never more than 24-31 DB, and this is with the G-62 flying!

We told her that according to AMA guidlines, we were well within the limits of noise, but to keep the peace, we would shorten our flying days and would not allow any member who had an A/C that could not pass a 92DB ground noise test fly at our field. This apparently satisfied her, as to date, we have had no further complaints about noise.

I would suggest looking into a noise abatement program like we did. We lost a few members because all they flew were the big planes, but until we are able to find another alternative for a flying field, we must do what we must.

Good Luck!
Don

Avistar 2

That too bad
The field I flew at is ony up the street from me
and the gas models had no loud noise at all
but convert your gas to electric is very exspenive
the way they charge a battery operated motor with the same power of your gas engine
is out of control,they a guy was flying his gas plane a 40 scale and I can't hear the Nitro engine running and if I did it would not bother me due to they sound like a mosquito flying
anyone who complains over a tiny sound like that need to go on a long vacation.

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

Avistar2 - - I can tell you from bitter experience that raising hell with public officials will get you marked as one of those "Don't ever let that J--k in my office again". I know it's old but the saying is still true. "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar". Well reasoned facts in the form of a letter to all the council people will help the most. An addendum as to the number of voting populace you are representing, as well as the youngsters interested in model aviation will impress almost any elected official.
Just don't make it sound like a threat that you will pay at election time. Letters to the editor sometimes help too.

Avistar 2

True, I have contact a city park offical here in this city,
about making an RC park for people who fly Rc gas planes.
and yet he will have a meeting about it,
but the noise level on 2 stroke model with a muffler on it or 4 stroke Rc engine is not much
to cause a ruckus about, besides it was a sound of a nitro plane flying that got me in it
and watch the seasoned RC pilots that invited me in to the hobby
I learn more about it from them and them giving me a demo on rc flying and this forum with
vita information, and reading about more about it on the web and RC magazines.
But it hurts when some grips about a little noise that sounds like a mosquito,
and try to kill some one joy in life, it very sad.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Many a field has been lost because of club members with this narrow viewpoint. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of engines. However, there are many outside the hobby who don't. Ignore their feelings at your own peril.

Avistar 2

HOW TRUE.....

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Something went off here. Its not about allowing certain types of planes and engines. The field will be shut down. We can count on this within the next 3 years or so when enough noise complaints come in by the new residents of the subdivision.

At that time it will probably go electric and a new field will be built elsewhere. I was thinking of trying to make a push to also add 4 strokes along with electrics due to its passive sound.

Avistar 2

That's going to cost you.
your going to miss the sound of an airplane
electric high speeds will burn holes in budget
battery packs will over heat, electric motor might
it might me cleaner but not as much fun.
I rather go out the city limits where no one can't grip about you.
and you can't put a spinner on electric motors
4 storks model engineas are nice but still costly
beside for planes that scale of 40 to 60 & up it will take a very High RPM high speed motors
to get the power like your nitros and gas engines

Mettler1

Some how I don't see 4 strokes and electrics flying together. Best to have engine power at a new field and the electrics at the old. More harmony that way.