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Old 11-09-2015, 05:36 PM
  #7476  
thunder21
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Wow. That's not vague in the least. If we don't have "specific authorization", we can't fly period. Is this publication the first in which model aircraft operations have been prohibited in SFRAs? Has there ever been an attempt to procure "specific authorization" for any RC airfields within SFRAs?
Old 11-09-2015, 06:27 PM
  #7477  
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Wink Persistence has to count for something...

@thunder21
I've shot off an email or two to the FAAs UAS office but, there hasn't been a return response. To my knowledge this is the first time the FAA has been so specific on flight restrictions to model aircraft in so far as geography. AFIZ areas are rather limited across the U.S. however, we're in a rather high profile region of the United States (a.k.a. our Nations Capitol) and that puts us at the greatest risk for restrictions. Depending on how you interpret the FAAs Circular, yes, all model aircraft activity within 30 nautical miles of the Washington DC area is a violation of FAA regulations.

I've looked into obtaining a Certificate of Authorization (CoA) but right now its:
  1. so cost prohibitive that unless you are looking to make flying model aircraft a part of a business (e.g., surveillance) the investment isn't worth it. You need a full scale pilot license to fly. And,
  2. its only applicable to the aircraft themselves, not an area.

I'm in talks to get more information about how to work with the county / state officials to create a memorandum of understanding or special agreement that would allow us to operate safely within the SFRA but, this will take time.


We're entering into a whole new world here in DC and unfortunately several requests to the AMA have yielded little results. I'm beginning to question whether the AMA can even exert influence in matters like this anymore. Plus, I'm unaware nor confident of anyone at the AMA having any idea how to navigate such waters.


“You may encounter many defeats, but you must not be defeated. In fact, it may be necessary to encounter the defeats, so you can know who you are, what you can rise from, how you can still come out of it.” ~ Maya Angelou

Last edited by apwachholz; 11-09-2015 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Added URL address to the FAAs Petitioning for Exemption under Section 333
Old 11-09-2015, 06:58 PM
  #7478  
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I just sent an email to the official mentioned in AC 91-57A, not that I'm expecting a response. I really can't imagine what the FAA was thinking in dumping this unexpected rule on the RC community, except to say they probably weren't thinking at all. The AMA is supposedly doing something about it, but does anyone know if Free State Aeromodelers has sent any official communication to the AMA about this advisory?
Old 11-10-2015, 04:03 AM
  #7479  
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Advisory circular (AC) refers to a type of publication offered by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to provide guidance for compliance with airworthiness regulations. They define acceptable means, but not the only means, of accomplishing or showing compliance with airworthiness regulations.[SUP][1][/SUP] Generally informative in nature, Advisory Circulars are neither binding nor regulatory; yet some have the effect of de facto standards or regulations.[SUP][2][/SUP]


So this definition clears up nothing usually ACs do not regulate. Why the FAA choose this distribution method is questionable.... I do not find a notice of proposed rulemaking, nor the expected comment period. This issue is being worked by the AMA regulatory affairs officer Rich Hansen. It would probably be better to take the discussion off-line.


Originally Posted by thunder21
I just sent an email to the official mentioned in AC 91-57A, not that I'm expecting a response. I really can't imagine what the FAA was thinking in dumping this unexpected rule on the RC community, except to say they probably weren't thinking at all. The AMA is supposedly doing something about it, but does anyone know if Free State Aeromodelers has sent any official communication to the AMA about this advisory?
Old 11-14-2015, 02:10 PM
  #7480  
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I would recommend that we don't contact govt officials about this lest we stick our head up and it be shot off, so to speak. Having said that, I think we should monitor and understand what is happening at NVRC so we can have all of the information possible and act appropriately as a club, including understanding if and when we need to begin thinking about a new location- hopefully not.

Last edited by DMichael; 11-14-2015 at 02:25 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 10:08 AM
  #7481  
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Registration for almost all model aircraft. Anyone looking to purchase some model aircraft? I've got a few I'd like to sell.

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced a streamlined and user-friendly web-based aircraft registration process for owners of small unmanned aircraft (UAS) weighing more than 0.55 pounds (250 grams) and less than 55 pounds (approx. 25 kilograms) including payloads such as on-board cameras.

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releas...m?newsId=19856

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

Last edited by thunder21; 12-14-2015 at 10:12 AM.
Old 12-26-2015, 08:53 AM
  #7482  
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I was forwarded a letter sent out by PGRC from the AMA. Some of you may have seen. All model aircraft flying in the DC area (30 miles from Natuonal Airport) has been suspended until further notice. The e mail from the FAA suggest that there are people working on a plan to allow model clubs to operate at some point but I don't know what that will look like. In the meantime any flying could hurt "negotiations" so we cannot fly and I would ask that we don't fly anywhere within the SFRA (30 miles from National). More to come but for now it appears that the field is shut down.

Last edited by DMichael; 12-26-2015 at 09:01 AM.
Old 12-26-2015, 09:12 AM
  #7483  
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E mail from AMA Disteict 4 VP Jay Marsh:

From:Jay Marsh, AMA Vice President District IV [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 7:19 PM
Subject: DC SFRA is a NO FLY ZONE

My Dear Clubs in and around the DC SFRA,

Let me first say Merry Christmas to one and all and I hope Santa was good to you.

The FAA has requested we stop operations at our AMA fields that are inside the DC Special Flight Rules Area for the DC area called the DC SFRA. The letter attached is from Ray Stinchcomb our District IV Government Relations Coordinator with an explanation of the action by the FAA.

You will not need to close the field, only cease operations temporarily, no flying of anything, until mid-January when we expect to get permission to continue operations for all fields.

By the FAA’s count there are 36 flying sites within the DC SFRA. AMA can account for 14 of those. Please pass the word to the Drone User Groups that they need to stop operations too. The FAA did indicate they were going to use law enforcement to enforce this.
One of our AVPs, Rick Moreland, will be contacting you offering to help find fields for our members to use in the interim. I have CC all of your addresses and I hope you will contact each other and work together to help each other and make this as painless as possible. Sorry folks, but we have to comply with the FAA.

Effective as soon as you can please post this suggested sign at your flying site.
THIS IS A NO FLY ZONE
UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE THE FAA HAS REQUESTED THAT ALL FLYING OPERATIONS BE DISCONTINUED.
THIS IS A NO FLY ZONE
PLEASE CONTACT ???? Club Officer ???? FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

Sorry to have to give you this news but it is necessary and I promise the District IV staff and AMA will continue to resolve this as soon as possible. If you have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me.
Old 12-26-2015, 09:16 AM
  #7484  
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There were discussions to have some fields reopen and some flying resume. Keep in mind you have multiple departments involved in these decisions. Homeland security, TSA, FAA, FBI and the real drivers to the decision, the Secret Service. Most of the other agencies will take their cue from the SS, if they are thumbs up the others agree. I suspect some fields close in will be closed forever, and that really does suck. You'll see news coming out next week about continuing litigation between the AMA and the FAA. I would presume that any other negotiations are now on hold as they try to remedy other issues. There are multiple issues to still work out and try to bring back to the membership as "wins", and some are contingent upon others. Not a field day for any agency involved here, there are very few "wins" that either side can claim.
Old 12-26-2015, 09:20 AM
  #7485  
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Originally Posted by DMichael
I was forwarded a letter sent out by PGRC from the AMA. Some of you may have seen. All model aircraft flying in the DC area (30 miles from Natuonal Airport) has been suspended until further notice. The e mail from the FAA suggest that there are people working on a plan to allow model clubs to operate at some point but I don't know what that will look like. In the meantime any flying could hurt "negotiations" so we cannot fly and I would ask that we don't fly anywhere within the SFRA (30 miles from National). More to come but for now it appears that the field is shut down.
Best advice for sure. It would be even more disturbing if those caught flying when they shouldn't be are AMA members.
Old 12-26-2015, 11:46 AM
  #7486  
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Here is the e-mail from the FAA.

It does lead off with a hopeful sentence- that there is a plan of some kind being developed so that we can resume flying at our club fields- but I am concerned under what types of restrictions that would include (just my own thoughts, not based on anything specific).

Also- the timing isn't bad- as we are entering the time of year when flying really slows down or stops for many of us. Hopefully this will be worked out and we can get back to safe flying again.


From: FAA
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:17 AM
To: AMA
Cc: Multiple FAA contacts
Subject: Request for your assistance

Good morning everyone.

As we continue our efforts to develop a plan for the resumption of model aircraft operations in the Washington, D.C. Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA), we are hearing reports that some individuals may be flying inside the SFRA even though they know it is in violation of the current airspace restrictions. We are asking for your help in spreading the word to the National Capitol Region model aircraft community that such activity is subject to enforcement action, and could damage our efforts to secure the interagency concurrence that is critical to this effort. As I have told many of you over the last weeks and months, there is increasing governmental support to make this happen, both within FAA and the whole of government, but our combined efforts could easily be delayed, or derailed entirely, by any incidents that involve folks knowingly operating within the SFRA in violation of current airspace restrictions. We know that the vast, vast majority of model aircraft hobbyists/enthusiasts, whether they are members of a formal organization or not, wholeheartedly follow the rules, police themselves and others, and do everything they can to operate safely and legitimately. Anything you can do to help us get the word out would be deeply appreciated. The last thing anyone wants to hear from the federal government is “be patient”, but you folks have been patient, and understanding, and we sincerely appreciate both as we work to try and get you back in the air.

On another note, many of you have invited FAA and our interagency security partners to come out and visit your flying sites and talk to your members, etc. We appreciate the invites and have extended them to our interagency law enforcement and security partners. We hope to take you up on the invitations in the near future. Additionally, I know that many of your members and fellow model aircraft enthusiasts have questions and concerns, about both the SFRA issue and model aircraft operations in general. I would be happy to address them directly, either in person or via telcon or email, and I’m sure my partners from FAA Legal, the UAS Integration Office, and Flight Standards would be more than willing to join in the discourse. If you are interested in such a discussion, just let me know.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all of you.
Old 12-26-2015, 07:31 PM
  #7487  
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Really?? Doesn't it seem a little suspicious that an AMA email "stopping operations" at our field comes out on Christmas day. Everything I have read on this is quite vague. Do we have any real solid info on this?

NASA Bill
Old 12-26-2015, 07:38 PM
  #7488  
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Originally Posted by whanderson
Really?? Doesn't it seem a little suspicious that an AMA email "stopping operations" at our field comes out on Christmas day. Everything I have read on this is quite vague. Do we have any real solid info on this?

NASA Bill
If one reads these threads long enough, everything the AMA is part of is suspicious and then questioned. It's a no win. People can wonder and second guess and blame, but it won't make a difference. Possible reasons include litigation being moved forward. Or this:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/medi...t_advisory.pdf
Old 12-26-2015, 08:07 PM
  #7489  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
If one reads these threads long enough, everything the AMA is part of is suspicious and then questioned. It's a no win. People can wonder and second guess and blame, but it won't make a difference. Possible reasons include litigation being moved forward. Or this:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/medi...t_advisory.pdf
I must admit I just read the advisory in full. Should have read it first instead of the emails sent by somebody's uncle who forwarded to their second cousin twice removed who sent it to Darth Vader's room mate. This is a suspension for the "State of the Union Address" It is for only one day, Jan 16. No big deal. The sky isn't falling. It is not the end of the world. No reason to hang a "No Fly Zone" sign at the field. Everybody take a deep breath and chill out.

NASA Bill
Old 12-27-2015, 08:26 AM
  #7490  
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Bill,
You are not reading the correct document... AC91-57A for starters. FSA flight operations are suspended until further notice.
Old 01-15-2016, 09:50 AM
  #7491  
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Once the field is re-opened- or wherever you end up flying in 2016, here is a link to the FAA's directions to Local Enforcement Officers regarding Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS), knwon to us as our models.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcem...dance_card.pdf



The direction they have been given is that we..
.

Must have our FAA registration card and markings (number)on aircraft
Must not endanger persons or property on the ground
Must give way to and not interfere with manned aircraft
Must comply to any flight restrictions (like we have now) or temporary flight restrictions
Subject to legal enforcement for careless or reckless operation

Also-
Aircraft is strictly for hobby or recreational use
Weighs less than 55lbs
Operates within the AMA safety guidelines
We must notify any airports within 5 miles (not every time we fly but they need to acknowledge us)

Note-
It also has a note with regard to altitude- that we are generally 200' - 400' but can be higher It says that in black and white
Old 01-26-2016, 07:46 AM
  #7492  
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The FAA seems to have ordered snow plows to barricade our field entrance gate. Pic taken this morning...

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Old 01-26-2016, 01:49 PM
  #7493  
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Presume you are joking......?
Old 01-26-2016, 03:05 PM
  #7494  
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Yes it was a joke... I guess that someday we will fly again.
Old 01-26-2016, 03:21 PM
  #7495  
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Had to ask...you never know around here.

Can't believe how much snow you guys got hammered with. NYC too.....amazing.
Old 02-09-2016, 08:17 AM
  #7496  
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NEW RULE RELEASED TODAY:

WE CAN FLY AGAIN..... STARTING 12:01 TONIGHT... WELL REALLY TOMORROW....http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=84787
Old 02-13-2016, 03:53 PM
  #7497  
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Club is planning to have a reopening breakfast next weekend February 20, 2016.
Old 02-20-2016, 11:34 AM
  #7498  
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Do your self a favor... grab some pop corn and watch this video... great public speaker; SR-71 Blackbird/Sled Driver Brian Shul OK short of an hour, but well worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kIMTJRgyn0
Old 02-20-2016, 12:29 PM
  #7499  
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Originally Posted by thunder21
... Anyone looking to purchase some model aircraft? I've got a few I'd like to sell....
What do you have available?
Old 01-02-2017, 08:22 AM
  #7500  
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Thread should be declared dead and services be held.

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