Bob101

Our president (your probably know him but I won't mention his name) routinely makes the homeowners association meetings at the subvision at the end of the runway. 99% of the people there were oblivious that we even flew airplanes. One guy did bring his grandson to the field one day and that's about all we've ever heard.

The only real "incident" that involved a plane and a house was from a plane flown from the soccer field. Some guy crashed his plane into the side of a house there. They came to the field and we looked at the plane and had no idea who it belonged to and they said it just happened - so we drove over to the soccer field and a guy was putting up his stuff. I used to fly there a lot during the week but I finally gave up when I'd be flying and see/hear another plane from the soccer field flying - it just wasn't worth it anymore. I'm not talking park flyers - we once had a visitor pack up his 42% edge (this was prior to the 30lb 110cc limit - actually he's kinda the reason they put in the limit) and fly from the soccer field. I've seen in 4+ years of flying there at least a dozen gas powered airplanes fly from the soccer field.

Luckily now I drive about 5 miles to fly and then my airplane would have to fly 2+ miles in any direction to hit anything other than an old abondoned barn. So I went all out and bought a used carden and I'm building a 31% CA extra now from a kit - now that I can! Heh.

Live Wire

Interesting how we look out for each other and others only look out for them selves

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

I'd heard about "outlaws" flying from the soccer field.

You guys that wonder why we clubbers don't have a lot of patience with "outlaws"; this is a prime example. The club in question has been there like forever. The soccer fields across the highway are very recent. These "outlaws" go to fly at the soccer field, KNOWING that there is a good chance of a freq conflict, but they do it anyway.

There is NO way you can spin that other than what it is; total disregard for an established club and its members. These are the guys that will eventually ruin it for all of us. The "I'm gonna do what I want; the hell with what you think!" attitude that many <outlaws> seem to have is why...

Never mind. Its not worth arguing over. But it is what it is.

jettstarblue

Yeah, but Steve, who says the clubbers have the "right" to use the frequencies? What if the "outlaw soccerfielders" are flying first that day? Who says they are blatantly saying "FU"? What if they just want to fly and you won't let them for lack of the little card?

Just because someone has an AMA card and an "official" field, does that mean they have more rights or precidence over other flyers?

Food for thought.

Hossfly

If that "official" field has been obtained by a group that has negotiated, petitioned, leased. rented, and/or purchased such facility, therefore having properly attained the right to use said property, and thus maintains that property for the use of RC model airplanes, then, in my opinion, they have every right/s to protect their use thereof even to obtaining an injunction against anyone interfering with that right.
Precedent has been set by studies that those entering within 3 miles of the property, using the public frequency spectrum, should enter into frequency sharing. This will obtain the injunction until the case comes to court, probably 2-4 years down the road. In such case the deep pockets will usually win, unless the accused demands a jury trial. Then who knows.

NOTE: AMA is not an entity in the above opinion.

Funny thing, just last week I was a juror on a civil case where "deep-pockets" was the defendant. I think he read the jury well. Just prior to the jury entering deliberation, d-p settled. Too bad for the little guy as he was close to getting all he asked for -- all the commissions that he had been promised for his work plus legal fees. Don't let the judge rule if you can go jury, and read the jury. [X(]

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Thank you for making my point regarding "outlaw" attitudes.

The club is there; has been for many years. It is established, with well over 100 members. A few who do not wish to be "constrained" by rules, regulations, and/or dues decide they are going to fly close by anyway, regardless of the danger that poses.

The law is murky on issues like this. Common freakin' COURTESY is the determinig factor here, and these clowns just do not have it.

Again; you can try to spin it any way you can; but a turd is a turd. Its not food for thought; its a blatant indicator of NO personal character.

jettstarblue

There you go getting personal Steve, just one of many reasons there are outlaws and independents. It's not your air exclusively.

Hossfly said it in a much more mature manner without resorting to namecalling and such.

As to common freakin' courtesy, why don't you guys go over to the soccerfielders and offer for them to join the club or at least work with them as to the frequency issue instead of having a self righteous attitude about the whole thing?

It's the 21st century, like it or not and not everyone will have courtesy or respect, especially with an attitude like that.

jettstarblue

BTW- SOMEONE CALL THE CHARECTER POLICE! I SEE A SHOWDOWN A COMIN'!

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

In the first place, its not my problem. I don't belong to that club anymore.

In the second place, it is my understanding that club members DID "go over there" and try to work something out, but were re-buffed.

In the third place, how do you figure I got "personal"? Did I call YOU any names?

Hey, you're the one who began the thread and asked for input. Apparently, you only wanted input that agrees with your position. Okay, I got the picture.

<<...not everyone will have courtesy or respect...>>

There YOU go, making my point yet again. However, I wonder just how understanding you would be if this shoe was on the YOUR foot.

the troll

Steve

Can’t help but say, it is very disappointing to see that you are not supportive of one’s legal rights, given the responsibilities you are charged with.

There are many things a club could do to remedy the matter but I guess you do not care to see that.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Live Wire

Both sides have valid points but no one will compromise. I went to a meeting with the the intent of as they say eating crow and some club members were more than glad to help feed it to me but in the end no one won. There are other members that keep wanting me to get involved. Very interesting HOBBY watching members come and go and letting their pride get in the way
I am just one of the Independent Out Laws created by(organized) groups of Independent people[sm=bananahead.gif]
Edit to remove the UN

AgCat1982

I took it that they wanted a place to discuss things such as where "outlaws" could fly, how they could solve problems they run into, etc. However, it seems the first thread has been taken over by constant condemnation and put down by "the other side", as it seems there has to be this "our side" and "your side" thing. There has been no room for the stated reason for the thread.

Implying that they would only want input that is in their favor, well..., yeah. That was kind of the reason for a separate forum, or, as it is, separate thread. To talk about things that would benefit their form of flying, where to fly, who is having to fly that way, etc. NOT why they shouldn't be allowed to exist. Why would you presume they would want to hear about that? They have been hearing all about that already.

Just my opinion. I know........., everybody's got one.

AMA #819995

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

What legal rights? I'm afraid you lost me with that one, guy. Unless you're referring to the guys at the soccer field and their "right" to fly wherever they choose. But the guys at the club also have a "right" to fly without worry of frequency conflicts by someone who KNOWS they are close enough to cause same.

That's the problem with this issue; neither side has the weight of law behind it. The only "rights" that count are those mandated in the US Constitution. Last time I checked, flying r/c model planes was conspicuously absent from that document...

As for "taking sides", it was not my intention to do so, believe it or not. When Bob mentioned the situation at a local club, I expanded upon it as an example of one reason WHY acrimony exists between the two groups. But after thinking about it, and seeing those replies above... yeah, I'm on the side of the organized club.

That said, I am well aware of unfair practices, restrictions, etc., at the club level. I never said the outlaws, independents, rogues, whatever label you care to apply, were all wrong. So give me a break on this "supportive" business. Its apples and oranges.

Troll, you're confusing rights with priviledges. We no more have the "right" to fly than we have the right to drive where and how we choose. The difference being, of course, that driving is regulated by law.

Have a large day...

jettstarblue

jettstarblue

O.K., can we get back to the topic, before this thread degrades into yet another pi***ng match?

the troll

I guess that is a philosophical difference...For me rights aren’t given but only taken away. Privileges are given in lieu of rights.

Either way, no one has any more rights to the R/C frequencies than another unless they have signed them away completely or to some degree such as is the case of an AMA member.

______________________

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

OK, I'll weigh in, hideho all,
Long time, no hang in da clubhouse...Nice to see you again Steve, Jett and the rest...
I too, am a self taught independent type...or was..now am again.
First 3 yrs, flew alone, learning curve somewhat stagnated...sure I could land in the barn, over barb wire, in between ditches...but when I got to the club field, dang near couldn't hit a 40X600...(OK, it was the 40 that gave me grief, that and I was so dang intimidated)..
Man I was rough...Neanderthal...used a milk crate for my flight box..chicken stick...fuel bulb...(and this was 10 yrs ago)
Why not? worked for me 30 years ago...heheeh

So I'm a people type, and am hungry for more skills so I keep showing up at the club field weekends...and only speak to guys my age or close to it...(no thanks, I can see the blue-hair, curmudgeon touch and go patrol givin' me the evil eye)....

So's I eventually join, and get to know a terrific bunch, we push each other, (skills), and I just have the time of my life.

Now I'm just getting back into the online thing, (after a train wreck of a year in '05) fingers itchy...aside from some 30% stuff, I have a ton O electrics..so I opt to not to renew my AMA, and pass on the club this year..the club doubled the dues this year, and lost half of the hangarflyers/Senior members.
As Electric is all I'll be mostly flying, the ball fields down the street will do just fine.

I have always somewhat resented the AMA anyway...the AMA is not an Insurance company, it's a modeling org yet the insurance aspect is the reason most clubs insist that you join for, if you want to fly with them. And even then it doesn't pay primary, but secondary coverage anyway.
I carry a million dollar liability umbrella policy, so for me there is no value added to joining the AMA.
If there were an opt out of the Insurance/magazine option available, and had supporting memberships for 20 bucks a year or less, I'd keep my membership.

Steve and Horace have made more than valid points, (shoot that's twice I have agreed with Horace publicly[sm=eek.gif]), that out of respect for the !QUOT!organization!QUOT! that leases/owns a flying field, I would'nt fly within an unsafe distance period.

It's simply the right thing to do.

If I had no other safe option, I would just buck up and join the club, and whine quietly to myself.

Now for the record, I know the AMA has done a tremendous job for many, many people and organizations, kudos.
Personally I do not find representation in the AMA as long as I am flying independent, in the soccer fields/ball fields that the city and county has generously donated, with my tax dollars.

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

Steve and Hoss this thread was started for independent flyers, not to re-hash AMA vs the world. There is already a thread in the AMA forum for that and I would be happy to join you there to re-visit these types of issues over and over and over again as I'm sure others would to. As for this thread some of us would prefer it stay on topic.

I would just like to say that as a result of RCU I have an offer to fly as a guest at a local club and I have invited that same person to fly with me at "my field" when it gets a bit warmer. That is the real intent of these threads, which I believe is to bring flyers together.

Hossfly

rsa, jetstarblue started the thread. I only provided a somewhat hypothetical answer to a question that he asked. It was noted that AMA was not an entity in the situation/answer.
His thread, his topic. I'll honor his request.

the troll

Mike do you realize that according to the AMA, that the area you talk about to insure a safe distance encompasses near bouts thirty square miles?


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AgCat1982

troll, actually, if you are correct about the 30 square miles, that is only about 3.1 miles, in each direction, from the air field.

jettstarblue

Well said Mike.

I have people over here to fly and we go to others "fields" as well. Usually when I'm flying in my true "outlaw" mode, I go it alone- yet another no-no in the eyes of many.

If I am going to use someone's property, I'll ask first, haven't been turned down yet. Public property is fair game, and what I do is a lot safer than what I've seen a lot of others (non-fliers) doing with the same property.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Good grief. Reading back over this thread, I see where the only reference I made to the AMA is that I belong because I have no choice. Now, it is hinted at that I am championing the organization. I love it how things get twisted in these threads...

And as for "getting personal", I have no idea what an Indy is. However, in the south it is considered good manners to directly address the person one is conversing with; as in use of the word "you".

Since that apparently offends jettstarblue, it won't happen again. Heaven forbid I be considered argumentative...

Roby

What makes an outlaw ? the original post ask.

Well, I suppose if your flying your model in an area
your not supposed to be in and it's against the law
to do such, then I guess you are an outlaw.

Just because someone isn't a member of the AMA doesn't
mean any laws are being broken. I sure wouldn't call anyone
that lives outside the USA that flys model airplanes an outlaw.

My feeling is that if you want to join AMA then do so but don't
label others who don't join as "outlaws".
To do so is petty and mindless.

I ,like Steve Campbell only join because ,just like many others,
we are forced to.

Regards
Roby

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

Personally take "Outlaw" as a term of endearment and regardless of how some from the diehard AMA side of the fence would prefer to twist it, as long as you are flying in a safe manner, in a place in which it is legal to operate a RC Plane, and you do not do so with the intent to interfere with the operation of another user on the same frequency, you can fly. Whether it be 3 miles or 300ft from and existing club does not matter. Would it be prudent or neighborly to fly less than three miles from an organized club? NO! But legally there isn’t anything that would stop someone from doing so.

Hoss, the “we were here first defense” would not hold up in court. Just look at how many organized clubs, automobile and motorcycle race tracks, and full scale airports that have closed when urban sprawl caught up to them. More than likely your injunction would fast forward the banning of all flying in the city in which it is filed.

As long as the independent flyer is not violating any laws any 1st year lawyer would get your case for an injunction tossed.