P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

1. If a proper range check had been done, it would have been caught (ie standing more than 10 feet from the plane).

2. There is a rule R/C flyers live by; If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it.

3. So, in summary, move on...your blood pressure will be lower.

Just my opinion, and is null and void if this situation occurs at a "fly-in" or other such event.

JDHammer

My Feedback: (1)

Our club does not have an impound either. When someone on my frequency takes the pin for their turn, I put my transmitter back in the car just for added insurance. This avoids accidentally turning it on "just to check something".

Very sorry about your loss.

beavertail

P-51 B
That #2 rule is one of the most ignorant ive heard, Weve got a high school student that saved up to buy a trainer and get it ready to fly, this is suggesting that he should not get to enjoy r/c aircraft like I do because he cannot afford to buy another airplane.

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

Milton said it all, things happen beyond our control, the responsible must be feeling about as bad as you do. It would be very classy to forgive and forget.....

branded

My Feedback: (9)

I think I said the same thing....

I've been flying RC for more than 40 years, on and off. I've never belonged to any club, nor have I ever flown at any field, where liability for an accidental incident was accessed to a person for this kind of thing.

Ditto for unfortunate midairs.....

If you can't afford to loose the airplane, then don't fly it......Sh*t happens....

Get over it and move on.

DESERT RATT

My Feedback: (7)

"Let's see here guys"

Many of you have said move on and get over it..

That's great ! you are a wonderful bunch.......

So if I am parked Up hill from you in a Parking lot, And I "FAIL" to leave my truck parked in Park, and the emergency brake on, AND It rolls into your car/truck, you are going to say OK???!!! Don't worry about it, I can get over it? RIGHT?

My 9 year old flies and takes on the same responsibility of flying that I do.
BUT,If He is sitting in my car/truck and accidently kicks the vehicle out of park, and it rolls into yours that's, oK! RIGHT!


I borrowed a Helicopter from a friend of mine and crashed it, The repairs cost me $200.00. I crashed it, I fixed it. Then gave it back to my buddy, and I didn't ask to fly it again.

So all of you guys will feel sorry for an 18 year old that made a mistake, but for an old guy like me , What would you do???


Desert Ratt.

branded

My Feedback: (9)

Hey, that's the way it is at MOST of the fields I've flown at over the years....

We're gentlemen in this sport and subsequently conduct ourselves as such.

If this deed was done without malice, and simply was an accident........ then move on.

FlyBy1-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Guys .........
Thanks again for the input .......Just to let those know that think I got mad , upset , elevated blood pressure, etc. I did not and never indicated here that I did.
I am going to order a new kit , send the engine in for inspection and necessary repairs, buy new electronics to replace the damaged ones and build another one.

I will offer the individual an opportunity to help cover expenses
If he does,,,, Great !!
If he dosen't ..... o well ...... I will (as some have suggested) just get over it, (actually, I'm already over it)

I know what I would do had I have left a transmitter on and shot down anothers aircraft but we all don't think alike
I was just picking your brains for your thoughts on this touchy subject

To those who don't understand why it did not show up on preflight . I cannot answer that one, all I know is that it did not .
Not from preflight through taxi through takeoff. Only after I was in the air did I get hit , Yes I fly PCM, Futaba 9ZAP , FP-R-129DP PCM rx. His Tx was at the other end of the pit area laying flat down on the grass pointing away from me , I got total lockout when the plane was approching that end of the field which put it 90 degrees to his antenna.

beavertail

No one that has been around rc airplanes for any given time should compare a mid air to what happened here. They are two different things. If a midair happens at our club, we ll get over it, , and we do. If some one gets shot down, some thing is definately done about it.

DESERT RATT

My Feedback: (7)

Branded,

Thank you for conveying to me what a Gentleman is.. I guess it must be the great difference of our ages that I have failed to learn it.. You see in my 50 years, I have been taught that you harm somebody, You apoligize,(unless provoked) And if you harm something of somebody elses, You replace, or repair it. And I thought I was being a "Gentleman" by replacing my friend's broken helicopter parts..
Hey,
When May I come down and Fly yours? That would be great!! to know there was no pressure in learning how to fly, because if I crashed it, you would not expect me to replace it.


Simply being an "accident", Is A Mid-air with no forethought, BUT, When someone leaves a Transmitter on around other flyers, It's carelessness. An Unfortunate careless act, But carelessness just the same. And the young gentleman in question has apparently been raised the same as myself, for he, has volunteered to replace and repair. My hat's off to him, and his folks! It makes me happy and proud to see that there are parents still instill'ing Manners/Responsibility in their offspring, and offspring Observing their Manners/responsibility. That is a Gentleman, with a good family upbringing.

Beavertail,

Quote{ No one that has been around rc airplanes for any given time should compare a mid air to what happened here. They are two different things. If a midair happens at our club, we ll get over it, , and we do. If some one gets shot down, some thing is definately done about it.}Unquote

I agree, I have never seen or heard of it being any different either.


It's totally explainable, Why it didn't show up on Pre-flight. The Antennae was grounded, drastically reducing and highly focusing it's output distance and range.


FLYBY1,


By the way, I'm sorry about your loss, and the predicament it left you in. Good Luck on the outcome.

Desert Ratt

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

Transmitter range is subject to many factors, simply pointing the ant. towards the ground will give less range than pointing it up, I have have made the mistake of not having the correct RF module instaled and turned on at the same as another pilot in the air, my TX was flat on the ground close to the airplane Ant extended, The other pilot at least 30 feet away, My plane being on a differant freq was going nuts , but his never recieved a glitch even when flying on my side untill I picked up my TX and the ant was pointed up, or as indicated earlier off the ground. He of course voiced the problem, I then remimbered my problem and turned off, nothing was lost.

I belive the saying goes, if you can't accept the loss of the model then don't fly it , If you don't have the patience to accept a loss of any size you are in the wrong hobby. Dosen't mean you have to like it or not be compensated for someone elses fault.

branded

My Feedback: (9)

I'll reiterate one more time, particularly to those of you that are having difficulty with this issue....

People make mistakes at the field. It's incumbent on you, the flyer, to assure that nothing is amiss before you fly.

I know this is not always practical, however a good number of times it is.

When I fly at my three club fields, I'm always aware of anyone that shares my channel, and I actively go out of my way to assure that they aren't transmitting, regardless of whether or not I have the pin.

If this fellow erroneously left his transmitter on and shot someone down, and he did so by accident, and without malice, then where I fly, amongst gentlemen, the infraction would be forgiven, and the parties would just simply move on.

Sometimes there's heated exchanges, but never does anyone ever threaten to litigate the matter in court. They may even come to an agreement on compensation, but it's never required, nor is it forced upon the offender.

That's the way it's been everywhere I've flown, from New York, Virginia, North Carolina, California, and yes Chicagoland......

augiep38

My Feedback: (3)

Malice and intent are nout used in the determination of legal liability.

I would love to see how you guys would act if this happened to you.

Saying that having done a "proper" range check would have prevented this is the equivalent of telling someone who was t-boned while driving through an intersection that the accident would not have happened if they would of walked instead of drove.

Moving on and restitution are two different things as well. He should move on as thats about the only thing you can do. Based on the facts given, he should also seek restitution for the destroyed aircraft. Age and cost should not even be a factor in deciding whetehr or not to pursue restitution.

Saying that you shouldn't fly if you can not afford to lose it should be applied to both parties in this accident is also unfair. The same idealogy should be applied to the other party as well.

It sounds as if the guy who was shot down has been a gentleman throughout the entire situation. Now its time for the kid who made the mistake to step up to the plate and be a man too.

Todd

branded

My Feedback: (9)

Sorry if you guys don't like what I have to say, but I can only tell you my viewpoint based on my experiences.

I've never, at any field where I've flown, seen anyone persue "restitution" for a lost model, whether it be an accidental shootdown, or a midair.

The parties either shake hands and remain friends, or they stay mad at each other for an extended length of time, but never have I seen or heard of anyone seeking "restitution", by via small claims court or otherwise....

I sure hope this isn't becoming a trend.

And by the way, I've had midair's and shootdowns so I have experienced what being discussed here. Happily, they are rare occurences.

Like I said, if you can't afford to loose the model, then don't fly it.

I think this was a favorite quote of "Mr. Scale", Dave Platt. If you still like the model, then don't fly it.

MHawker

My Feedback: (16)

Branded,

I understand what you are saying about being able to "afford" a loss. Hey, this can be an expensive sport. I understand that if I put my plane in the air, I have a chance at losing it.

I also understand that if I put my plane in the air, someone might turn their radio on and shoot me down. That is why we take reasonable steps to assure this doesn't happen. That is why we have a frequency board. That is why we have a rule at our club (400 members) that if you shoot someone down, you pay for any damage.

That is why I choose to put my plane in the air with this club. If there was no recourse for someone making a "mistake", I would probably do what you do and go around and make sure everyone who is or might be on my frequency knows I'm flying and knows not to turn on their TX.

But, I would not fly at that club for long. People need to understand that part of the responsibility of this sport applies to yourself and part applies to others. If you fly your plane and make a "mistake" and hit someone, you need to understand that you are responsible. If you turn your radio on and the person's plane you just shot down hits someone, you are responsible. Why do you think we need insurance? I guarantee you that if you fly your plane and something happens and you kill someone's kid, they are not going to "move on".

As someone said above, if you can't afford to fly (or pay for any damage you cause) don't fly.

I'm glad this kid has offered to pay for any damage etc. And I'm glad Flyby is being so understanding about this. It is a credit to both of their characters.

Mike

DESERT RATT

My Feedback: (7)

Branded,

Here's Two seperate, quotes from you !!

Quote {I think I said the same thing.... I've been flying RC for more than 40 years, on and off. I've never belonged to any club} UNQUOTE

Quote {When I fly at my three club fields} Unqoute

You have Never in 40 years belonged to a club, But you now belong to three, D@mned Man that was fast!!

Branded,

I don't believe it's "US", Whom are having a problem "Grasping" this whole thing !!!!!!

I'm glad that the clubs you Don't belong to/belong to. Are not in my area. If you shot me down and didn't accept the responsibility, It'd be more then a "Heated discussion" Especially with this size of Model.

I apoligize to the rest of you that have to read this, This was just leaving me at unrest, It's not about us anyway, And the Young man Is willing to take his responsibility as a Man. Some people have A different OutLook as what a "Gentleman" is.

Now, I'll type no more on this thread!!

RON (Desert Ratt)

edmcman

Read this

http://rcuniverse.com/showthread.php...own+court+case

branded

My Feedback: (9)

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branded

My Feedback: (9)

Desrt Ratt, thanks for proving my point....So you propose to beat everyone up that makes an error or a mistake?

Have you ever made a mistake?

Lemme see...There was at least three seperate "shootdown" occurences last year at Joe Nall....

I don't recall anyone suing anyone else.......

And, Desert Ratt, you purport to be in your fifties. Just goes to demonstrate that there's no age qualification for a person to demonstrate maturity. Your demeanor, and your threatening sarcasm is proof of that.

In my opinion, only a couple of low life, immature jerks would litigate such thing in court, assuming a simple accidental "shootdown".

I'll not contribute to this thread any further as contributors such as Desert Ratt are too immature to debate their position without resorting to threats, and flames.

It's just a matter of taking the high road, and a matter of character. Some need to resort to threats to make their supposed point...........

Too bad.

robert

I did not see that one coming...........its a simple question.........Don't know why its so personal.
Anyway, I really think that the best thing is to discuss it with him first, and it'll probably sort itself out there and then. But please, don't get him to send his plane back. That will show a distinct lack of class, and will also wreck a part of the hobby for him. (You don't know how excited us young'uns get when something like that is in the post!)

FlyBy1-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

to those intrested ...........

I phoned the individual tonight and had a good conversation with him. He has agreed to purchase me a new kit (suppose to order it tomorrow) and the covering materials. I told him I would take care of the electronics (servos,receiver,batteries,ignition,etc) and repair on the engine (providing it is not beyond repair).

He was still willing to pay for repair/replacement on EVERYTHING telling me again it was his error , we did however agree to the above.

I'm really lucky that he happened to be
a great individual and do (in my eyes) the proper thing.
Hopefully, our club club will address our current frequency control and come up with better means. I know I learned a lesson as well as the young man did too.


Thanks to all who responded

Greg

Elwood

My Feedback: (2)

Cool!

beavertail

He seems like a stand up guy, I hope you get another 540 flying again soon.

redrocker

FlyBy1---
Glad you could work things out.

This discussion leads into a question of what is equitable compensation if somebody shoots down your airplane. I am really into scratch building without using any plans. Typically .91 4-stroke size with an emphasis on flying very aerobatically. Over a couple decades of flying I have had two of these shot down by others accidentally turning on radios. In both cases these were friends who promptly offered to buy me a replacement kit and to fix any radio or engine damage. But- just having a new airplane kit does not put you back where you were before the crash.

After the first shoot down I did accept a kit for a similar type airplane, but did not really enjoy building it like I do scratch building, and I did not like how it flew. So, after the second shoot down, I declined a replacement kit and I just reminded myself that I like to scratch build, and just got on with things. In summary, one of the penalties for scratch building like I do is that there is just no way you are going to get an acceptable replacement plane if you are shot down. Just the way it is!

If the radios or engines had been harmed, I would expect repair or replacement.

rockmon

It blows me away to read the no-fault attitude in this thread by some. What the heck happened to taking responsibility for screwing up and paying for your mistakes? Rules are just that, rules , they are there for a reason and when they are not followed someone has to take responsibility, hell if everyone were as stand up as this young man we wouldn't need no steeenking rules but it's obviouse by some of the replies in this thread that the rules are needed and must be followed and enforced. It's nice to say heck just move on, WELL BULL, then when does it stop and why should anybody be worried about anything just turn on your radio and the heck with what might happen the guy will just go buy another plane so I don't have to worry. Yes sir I shot him but it wasn't my gun so I didn't think anything about it heck his parents can just have another kid. A little extreme I know but this no blame no fault attitude is scary.