Stickbuilder

Here's an idea. Do you have an old, long out of production kit that you have been saving for a rainy day? How about one by a model company that has been out of business, but that put out some really good models? Consider doing this... Have the plans copied, make tracings of all the parts, and offer them to the AMA plans service. You will have provided the future generations with the possibility of building these wonderful old models. Think about it. The view is worth the climb.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

jettstarblue

Until someone sues you for copyright infringement.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well, if the company is out of business it shouldn't be a problem.

If the company IS still in business, you may get in trouble

Teachu2

My Feedback: (133)

SOMEBODY still owns the copyright!

Stickbuilder

It is extremely difficult to copyright a model airplane. One needs to own to rights to the full scale to be able to do so. It requires minor changes to the model for the copyrighted isue to be bypassed at any rate. It also depends upon how old the copyright would be at any rate. They do have end dates. The WACO in question does not even have a copyright on the kit, the plans or the box. So what copyright exists?

Bill, AMA 4720
WACo Brotherhood #1

Jim Thomerson

You might want to take a look here before giving out legal advice on copyright.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

Stickbuilder

The model in question has no notice of copyright on any of the printed matter, I.E. the box, the labels on the box, the plans, or the manual. The model was originally kitted outside the dates of the current copyright law. This is a model of a full scale airplane that was not in manufacture on the date of the kit being produced. The company that produced the full scale plane had been defunct since the 1940's. The company that originally kitted the model was defunct. The model that is being resurrected has been materially changed (in excess of 15%) from the original kit. The plans have been given to the AMA for publication. I am attempting to provide that which has never been published (a set of templates for the cut parts to enable someone to build the model). The modifications, again are in excess of 15% of material change in design, materials, and execution. I see no problem with pproviding these parts templates at no charge to anyone. It is free.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Hossfly

Screw 'em and ignore 'em if they do. [>:]

In my library, I still have the late John Pond's very large catalog, "Old Time Plan Service" along with Tom Morris' "Old Time Stunt Construction drawings".

AMA received the John Pond Collection after John's passing. They sorted through them and now, IIRC, have many available for sale.

If I copy an item and do not use it for any personal gain, with the original author's name well displayed on said item, then I GIVE it away, then that action will come under the fair use exceptions of the copyright laws.

If the receiver then uses said item for his/her personal gain, that is the receiver's business, not mine. The AMA has on retainer a very large legal advisory group, and I have no doubt they well know how to cross the "Ts" and dot the "Is" reference any copyright problems.

AMA is well adapted at being very timid therefore I have every confidence AMA will NEVER make any move involving even the slightest risk, regardless of excellent opportunities for profitability, and/or the gain of many many new members.

If you can afford the cost, then send the plans to AMA.

Stickbuilder

Horrace,

The AMA already has the plans given to them. I am offering the templates for the parts. No parts are outlined on the plans, so without the templates, the plan is worthless. With the templates, the WACO can be replicated forever. My intent is to present the Templates to the AMA as a gift from the WACO Brotherhood. There is no gain to be made, just a service.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

skeeter_ca

As i understand it the copyright belongs to the actual print. If you copy it or reproduce it by copying, scanning or such that is copyright infringement. If you redraw the plans totally separate from the original then the copyright doesn't apply. Then if you make any changes or improvements to the airplane it is totally different plans and a new plane. I maybe wrong on this but i don't think so, but then again i didn't think so all the other times i was wrong. lol.

just my 2 cents.

jettstarblue

I'm going to get rid of my can O' worms opener...Sorry Stickbuilder I didn't mean to start this.[]

bbbair

Actually - I think that it's a pretty good idea.

A friend of mine has been giving away plans of the 'Florio Flyer' for years.

Being a computer wiz, he redrew the plans and updated them a bit (added two aileron servos vs one) etc.

He keeps a spare set of plans on hand for anyone that likes to cut wood.

I think that people are way too parinoid about lawyers these days. []

Copy the plans and make some minor changes, call it a "XYZ" Mark 1 and sell them on a cost recovery basis. [sm=shades_smile.gif]

No Harm, No Foul - keep on building and having a good time.

Hossfly

Very Good Bill. You are actually giving a gift to AMA members that can make use of those items. Hopefully AMA will be more receptive than a number of years ago. In Dec. 1984, I donated to AMA an interest in real estate appraised at $40,000.00. After several years of finger changing between mouth and backside, AMA finally realized something less than $5000.00 from that gift. [:'(] Very sad management upon their part. Hopefully they do better with plans. I don't see any great presentations reference the massive John Pond collections of which I have about 75 O-T FF and CL.
Bill you are correct about the templates. Many plans do not show such. They definitely make the plans much easier and more precise to work with.

Stickbuilder

Horrace,

Without the templates, the plans are just a curiosity. There are not enough cross sections to be able to figure it out with any degree of hope that you will wind up with something that resembles a waco. The parts have never been published, and the AMA already owns the rights to the plan. I'm hoping that they will incorporate the parts templates into a seperate sheet and include it with the plan.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Stickbuilder

Horrace,

I received an e-mail yesterday (2-20-2007) from the archivist at the AMA plans service. They will gladly accept the parts templates from the Brotherhood, and will incorporate them with the plans that they offer for the WACO YMF. They were very happy to get them, and this now makes the 1/5th WACO viable as a builder's model once again. Just thought I'd let you know that sometimes the AMA stories do have happy endings.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1