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Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

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Old 03-02-2003, 04:06 PM
  #1  
747drvr
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Hi Guys,

I have 5 JR 4721 servos. 4 are in like new condition, as I bought them for a
1/3 scale Extra 330 and set the plane up, but sold it before I ever flew it.
The other one has been flown, but is in excellent condition. I will sell all
for $300.00 and I'll pay the shipping, or $65.00 each plus shipping.


How do you guys interpret this ad. I've read it back and forth and this is what I get from it. The servos can not be called NIB because they had been installed but not flown. He makes a point of saying that the 5th servo has flown but is in excellent condition. This further implies that the others had never flown.
Notice I have to do some reading between the lines to draw the conclusion that at least 4 servos should be new. I guess that might be the loophole.

I received 5 well used servos with dates between 1997 and 1998 on the inside of the servo. One servo had gear teeth floating around in the geartrain . Also , all the small rubber o-rings between the case segments, and the wire strain reliefs had extensive degradation due to fuel and/or uv exposure.

This fellows stand is that I "got what I bought". Whatever that means ! I was not in the market for used servos. I guess I'll try to be more specific with my questions in the future but I feel burned.
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Old 03-02-2003, 04:26 PM
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bentgear
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Bet he didn't even offer to kiss you first!

Ed M.
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Old 03-02-2003, 04:53 PM
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Mike Bogh
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

I agree w/ you Mark, he misrepresented his servos.
I would demand a complete refund, and if he doesn't give it up I would make a life mission out of discrediting him wherever and whenever I could.
IMNSHO he is a liar and a thief.

seller beware!
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Old 03-02-2003, 04:59 PM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Mike,

That is my gut reaction , but I wanted some opinions first. I've been very reserved so far but this fellow has been very defensive.
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Old 03-02-2003, 05:09 PM
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scale buff
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Marc, after reading the "ad", I'd have to agree with you. I would have thought the servos, all but the one, had never been used. Regardless, for that amount of money, he certainly should be willing to return your money, siimply because you're not happy with the purchase. Perhaps you could turn it over to the moderator for his help. Hope you can get this resolved.


Frank T.
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Old 03-02-2003, 05:11 PM
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Mike Bogh
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Trust your gut Marc, That's why we have those hairs on the back of our neck, and those "gut reactions".

Trust them, that's why God put them there.

I respect your temperence, and looking for opinions, but wrong is wrong, and any seller that won't give you a COMPLETE refund (minus shipping one way) is a thief, morally bankrupt, and should be banned from ever doing bussiness online again.

He sold his soul, credibility, honor and respect for what? 300 bucks?
He sold it cheap, too. (his honor)
Clip and paste this and email it to him. If he does right by you, I'll be the first to publically apologise, and call bygones bygones.

Good luck, Mike
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Old 03-02-2003, 05:14 PM
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rockmon
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Seems to me a lot of thought went into the wording of this add and was meant to deceive the reader. I think you should post the guys name so everyone knows they should read between the lines when bidding on his merchandise. He is a professional rip off imo.
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Old 03-02-2003, 05:22 PM
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747drvr
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

I would have to agree that a lot is implied rather than plainly stated. "like new" can be a subjective thing but there are limits. If there was a scratch on the case I would not be complaining.

I will not state his name here. I value all your opinions and will direct him to this thread later on this evening and let him think about it. If he continues in the present way I will post bad Karma and in the Good, Bad and Ugly forum.

I've always thought that mudslinging between forum members was bad form ( that is until I had a reason !) and will not do it here.

Obviously he has his story but I really think that I was deceived.
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Old 03-02-2003, 06:41 PM
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rockmon
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I'll say it again, he put a lot of thought in the wording of the add to rip you off and I don't think posting the name of a thief is mud slinging plain and simple. It will be interesting to hear his side of the story so please direct him to this thread so he can state his case. Maybe he just sent you the wrong box of almost new servo's and will straighten it out post haste and if you do have to post his name in the good, bad and ugly please keep us informed.
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Old 03-02-2003, 06:51 PM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

I completely agree with rockmon on this. This guy's wording gives me a gut feeling that he may have done this before. However, I think anyone who reads this thread will NOT buy from him. I would like to hear this guy's story though. Let's hope he posts a reply so we can hear it.
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Old 03-02-2003, 07:14 PM
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Default POST HIS NAME

I agree he set you up. The thought of mudslinging hasn't cost him anything to date. My Idea is if he got you why would you give him a chance of ripping off the next guy. Post his name and address so those looking will know to be careful when dealing with him.
You posted his thread, you gave an accurate detail of further contact with him, now let further buyers beware by identifying him. You can always retract in the same post if he comes around and reimburses you for his deception.
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Old 03-02-2003, 07:48 PM
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Default Nope...I don't agree

Please don't post his name here....(my opinion only)

As you have already stated, GBU and Karma are the right way to go.

I wish you luck in getting satisfaction, wherever that may be obtained.

--Sean
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Old 03-02-2003, 09:02 PM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

The gentleman in question is a former RCO moderator with a positive feedback rating. Hopefully he'll do the right thing and refund the money. Then again, even Devils517 became an RCO mod near the end.
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Old 03-02-2003, 09:16 PM
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There is no question regarding the ad. The 4 were to be unused and the one in good shape. Not at all what you paid for. I admire your cool. I have not been as cool as you in much less irritating circumstances. Do not give in to this ripoff!
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Old 03-02-2003, 10:33 PM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

I would have your lawyer Mr Kazynski send him a letter. He ripped you off pretty plainly. Sounds just like a heli I bought. The ad said Xcell Helecopter, good shape, needs a couple of parts. It should have said, Xcell helicopter, could be used for just a couple parts. Even the engine and side frames were broken. Totaly hosed. Not good. Hope you get it worked. out.
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Old 03-02-2003, 10:54 PM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Please note carefully "I have 5 JR 4721 servos. 4 are in like new condition, as I bought them for a 1/3 scale Extra 330"

Please note that the second half of that does NOT say "I bought them new" You assumed they were new when he got them. You got a hand me down.
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Old 03-02-2003, 11:14 PM
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Is there anything wrong with the servos?
If they are like new but it is never that the servo are NIB then I don't see what the problem is.
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Old 03-03-2003, 03:31 AM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Lynx,

You are absolutely right that he doesn't say bought new but "like new" is not an accurate description. Yes as well to the fact that the used servos may have never flown in that particular airframe so I guess it's possible that he didn't actually lie. Although he does tie the fact that they are like new to the fact that he didn't fly the aircraft.

Anyway, I thought I was buying 4 unused and 1 used servo. One undisputable fact is that the servos are not "like new".

I thank all of you who answered my query. It seems that the majority interpreted the ad as I did. I will try to return the servos to him with a full refund. My aircraft are too valuable to me to risk using servos of questionable integrity.
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Old 03-03-2003, 03:50 AM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

You show quite a bit of class, Marc.
I do hope for his sake he refunds your money.

Please PM me his name. I need it for my personal trade list.
Thanks,
Mike
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Old 03-03-2003, 04:07 AM
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Don't send the servo's back till you get a check => Or you very well may never see either again.
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Old 03-03-2003, 05:37 AM
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Default Rebuttal Please Read

First of all, some of you have already made your mind up that I'm wrong before you have heard anything from me. Some of you see that I'm not wrong, and I appreciate that. Marc got exactly what he paid for, and knew what he was getting before he sent the check. Please check out what the other folks that have had dealings with me have said about me, and about what I sent them. I sent Marc a photo of what he was getting, for his approval. From the beginning, Marc has been confrontational. He did not tell me how to ship, but suggested USPS Global mail. I went to the Post Office, and because the package weighed less than one pound, they would not insure them, unless I sent them Registered Mail. I sent Marc the information on shipping, and he started doubting that I had even sent them. He told me that the tracking number did not work, that I had shipped them wrong, etc. etc. I got directly on my computer, and traced the servos to Canada, and sent him the information. He then said that yes, he could see them, using the same number that he had had. As for the servos, they were not new, but were like new. You can not buy JR 4721 servos for $50.00 new, and I think everyone realizes that. When I sent them to him, the only problem he had was the rubber gromets for the hold down screw. I explained to him, and the photo showed, that a couple them did not have the rubber gromets, but in order to have the servos complete, I pulled a couple off of some used 517 servos. This was the only problem he had, until I gave him this explaination.
Then, a day later, he started on something else. Marc has lost all creditability with me. I would in no way trust him to return the servos that I sent him, after all of the abuse I have taken from him.
I have had a lot of dealings on this forum, from several years. I was a moderator for over 2 years, and pretty well know what to represent and how to charge for what I'm selling. I have a flawless approval rating, and regret this transaction, but it is done, and I'm not the villian here. Take some time and read what a couple of the guys have said about me. I understand being unhappy with something you buy, but you should at least wait to receive them before you start to complain. Marc received exactly what he bought, in the condition I described.
I am in no way a dishonest person, and have had checks sent to me form $10.00 to $3500.00, and have always had perfect dealings with everyone. I have both sold, and bought, and this is the first time this has ever come up. I very much regret this.
Regards,
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Old 03-03-2003, 05:44 AM
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If there is some visible degradation in any component of the servo then it's definitely not "like-new" or in "excellent" condition. That's my opinion.

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Old 03-03-2003, 05:52 AM
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Well, I'm not taking sides. After reading both stories I wouldn't know who to believe if someone were lying. Both of the stories sound convincing. Did anyone ever ask or state the age of the servos? Sorry to hear about a bad transaction like this.

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Old 03-03-2003, 08:05 AM
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Default Opinions Needed- Did I misinterpret this ad ?

Now that we've had both sides presented, I'm closing this down. People will make up their own minds, and deal with both Marc and Kirk as they see fit in the future. There's little to be gained by further discussion of it here in the Clubhouse.

Thanks to both Marc and Kirk for presenting things courteously.
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Old 03-04-2003, 12:42 AM
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Kirk Andrews
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Default Marc and Kirk have resolved the issue!

Just for information, Marc Thomson and I have resolved the differences of opinion and have reached a compromise. Here is the e-mail message I got from Marc: "Since your offer, I called Horizon for some advise on servos . Failure
modes, things to look for, 4721 info specifically. I also did tests on all
the servos under load and they all pulled well. The only issue I have is
with one servo. It has more slop than the others and doesn't centre as
well. Probably gears. Would you be willing to spring for a set of gears and
a set of servo arm screws (3 were missing) and we'll call an end to this
mess. I'll post that we have a resolution if you do as well."

Marc

Marc requested that I send him $10.00 for new gears in the servo above, and I complied.
As for the some of the posts above, it would be helpful if folks did not jump to conclusions so fast. I was called everything from a liar to a cheat, and a rip-off artist. Those of you that know me, know that this is not even a little bit true. When I post, I do not use an alias, but my name. I also have my e-mail, my hometown, etc. As I stated above, check my Karma rating, and see what others say about me. Several of the above statements were hurtful, and should not have been said.
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