Tx_RcFlyer

My Feedback: (7)

Here's the scoop.

Smoking in our club house has never been an issue until recently. The usual group of regulars (mostly non-smokers, FYI) was sitting around when one of the smokers started to light up. A non-smoker immediately put his hand in this guys face and basically told him to not light up around me. (This might not be the exact quote - but this is what I was told)

The next thing you know, a no smoking sign went up on the club house door. Well, one of the clubs charter members who is an avid smoker, got just a little bit upset when he arrived at the club house. Well, way more than a little upset. More like really PO'd. His consensus is that, he helped build the club house and he should be able to smoke in it.

He had proceeded to have a harry fit because this was not put to a vote by the club members. And rightfully so I might add. So, It was published in the next newsletter that a vote would be taken at the next club meeting on whether or not smoking would be permitted inside the club house. Well, a vote was taken and we banned smoking inside the clubhouse. Only one smoker showed up to vote and he voted against smoking in the club house himself. The long standing member who had the issues didn't even bother to show up for the meeting. Maybe he figured since there are far greater non-smokers than smokers, he shouldn't waste his time.

Needless to say, he is still PO'd about the no smoking in the club house even after putting it before the club members.

Nobody was looking to alienate club members and unfortunately as an after thought was handled in a democratic matter per the club bylaws. But on the other hand, Here is a long time member and Charter member at that, who liked to come out drink his coffee and have his smokes to relax and be around a hobby he has enjoyed for many, many years. I personally hate to see him give up something he enjoys so much.

I am looking for some logical input on this issue and how else it might have been handled or how we can possible come up with an amicable solution to both smokers and non-smokers occupying the same club house space simutaneously.

TIA
Ted

J_R

1. If we can believe the experts, second hand smoke kills people.
2. Smoke makes your clothes stink, and those of anyone else in the room
3. Smoke makes the room stink
4. Smoke coats the inside walls, just like it does your lungs
5. Smoke makes some people choke, eyes water, and some even have allergies to it
6. Smoke lingers after the smoker is gone, in a enclosed area.
7. Smoking is a bad example for young people
8. Smoke can not be kept from migrating in a closed room
9. Smoking in the presence of non-smokers is inconsiderate
10. Smoking should be considered an outdoor sport

I have a terminal case of stupidity... I smoke... but, not indoors

JR

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

It is pretty cut and dried as far as I am concerned. His smoking inside a place where you are can cause lots of problems health wise to others around himself. He can kill himself if he wants to by smoking, but he can not make that choice for others around him. Therefor, if he wants to smoke, go sit in his car and smoke, but don't subject others to his second hand smoke. If he can't understand that you don't want to die of lung cancer or other second hand smoke ailments, then he can go home and be ticked. No loss. I never understood the mentality of smokers.

What do most people in a burning building die of? Breathing the smoke! Why suck a bunch of it into your lungs willingly? Things that make you say HMMMMMM!

beardking

My Feedback: (4)

Personally, if the way it all started actually happened how you described it, then I think that the member that demanded that this person not smoke around him should be ashamed of himself. 1)There were no pre-existing rules against smoking in the clubhouse, so the person who started to light up had every right and reason to assume that it was ok, especially if he had been doing that for a long time. 2) The person that complained about this person smoking is just as much in the wrong as the smoker because of his self righteous attitude thinking that only his opinion mattered.
Having said that, I am happy to hear that the club put it to a public vote. That is the only way to handle this sort of situation. Oh, and just in case you think that I'm one of those evil people that smoke like a freight train while holding a newborn child in my hands, you would be wrong. I don't smoke, and I never smoke, but I do believe in every persons right to be able to enjoy themselves. Whether that's lighting up a cigarette or driving around with their seatbelt off.

Flying Cowboy

An English man wrote a book on the subject of smoking. This book is on Internet and it's called "In defense of smokers". Maybe you should read it before you start believing the world is gonna die by suffocation.

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

Ok I am a smoker that's working very hard at being a non smoker and if it was allowed before and I was sitting and a person confronted me in that manner he would have had the hand that was in my face broken very quickly. If I know there are poeple who would object to my smoking then I willingly will abstain, not that important but do be that rude about it is another matter. A few years ago my Wife and I were on a ferry boat and it had been years since I had been on one and smoking then was allowed. Well I was way in the bow away from anyone when I lite one up and this idiot came running at me like a madman about it. Well I turned and met his charge by decking him big time as I didn't know if he was a looney or what. He got a stewart and i explained what happened and didn't know I was breaking a rule, the guy got his butt reamed. What I am trying to say that there is a right and wrong way to handle things and by putting it to a vote was the right way even though the vote would be slanted as you have more non smokers then smokers, but it was still right and there's never a reason to be rude!

TomM

<sermon>
I smoke. It's a disgusting habbit. Lost count on how many times I quit. The more places that ban smoking the harder it will be to smoke, I'll smoke less, live longer, and have more money for hobbies.

</sermon>

The vote (and new rule) was the proper way to go.

Have a picnic table with an umbrella and ashtray outside.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Your issue isn't about smoking. Your club voted on the issue and the matter is resolved. Your issue, is a member, who has been around for a while and who helped contribute to the club, feels that his wishes outweigh the other members. I assume you are a club president or at least a member of the Executive council, and by posting this thread you are trying to figure a way to keep this senior member happy while trying to uphold the will of the general membership. My friend, the bottom line is you can't keep them all happy all of the time.
I am a club president and I am currently dealing with a difficult member. I had an issue that one of my senior members (who I consider a very good friend) brought up that deals with our club logo. This member made a motion at a poorly attended meeting to make a logo that was no longer in use, the clubs official emblem. This vote passed, but a stipulation was included by the membership present that this vote would not preclude members from using or displaying a newer logo that was recently adopted. All was well....
Some time had passed and my senior member realized that our newsletter editor and web master was using the newer logo and not the one he prefers and complained to me. I advised him that I do not dictate to the newsletter editor how he produces the newsletter and that he should take his concerns/complaint to him. He declined to do so....
After another period of time passed, this senior member again came to me and demanded that I change the logo on the newsletter and web site or he would make an issue about it at the next membership meeting. I brought the senior members complaint to the executive council and they all agreed that the old logo was inappropriate for multiple reasons. After talking with the council I went back to the senior member and suggested a minor change to the logo that would address the councils concerns but, the senior member refused to compromise. In my further attempt to reach a compromise, I invited the senior member to attend our next council meeting. He refused to even answer my invitation to try to resolve the matter. After much discussion at the council level, it was decided that the old logo was inappropriate and that the council would address the general membership with our concerns and directly confront the problem.
The Vice President speaking on behalf of the executive council explained the problem and made a motion that a committee be formed to create a logo that was acceptable. This committee, would develop two or three choices and present the finished work to the general membership for a club vote. The general membership with more than half the total members present, voted in favor of this motion 66 to 2. I then attempted to appoint my senior member to the committee so that he could be directly involved with this project that he stirred up and was so concerned about, and he turned me down!
This member who I still consider a friend, hasn't spoken to me since that meeting and has made it well known that I am no longer any friend of his. He is angry because I refused to stand by him in a matter he felt was important.
This is a similar situation to what you are dealing with, one member who has been around for a while and isn't afraid to make noise, is mad because he didn't get his way.
As the president you must do what is right for the club as a whole, and follow the will of the majority of the members. Thats what being a good president is all about. Sometimes in doing this, you will loose a friend, even though you did everything you could to reach reasonable a compromise. And as much as you hate to, when a member has a temper tantrum because they can't have their way, sometimes you have to use kindergarten tactics!

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

We don't have a clubhouse at our field but there are many tables with awnings over them. A group of old timers meets everyday and hangs out at one of the tables to shoot the bull and they have been coming there forever. One guy smokes cigars that stink like hell and I'd rather breath burning nitro. Another guy must have Emphasima cause he wears an oxygen breather with the bottle next to him and he smokes with the tube still in his nose!

I'm glad they have a place to hang out and enjoy each others company and the surroundings. I don't expect them to change their behavior and I figure some day I might be one of them.

Tedster, it's nice that your concerned about his right to enjoy himself at the field but indoors is definatly imposing his habit on others and he needs to modify his behavior to the world we live in today.

teefly-RCU

do what i did..............install a kitchen vent-a-hood and a bench w/stools for the smokers to use while enjoying the habit. it works!

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

isn't just smoking that these things happen about at clubs. any regular activity that one person objects too can cause these problems.
personly i'd just say smoking in the clubhouse was a firerisk on this issue

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Cant argue that the guy was wrong about the way he confronted the smoking man, when there were no rules in place before hand, but it was good that they took a vote. Anyone with any education at all knows that smoking and second hand smoke is not good for people and people who choose not to smoke should not be subject to smoke if they choose not to be. There are a lot of places smokers can smoke and not affect anyone else, but the club spoke in this case.

We also have smokers at our field. Noone tells them they can't smoke, but they have the class to walk away from the others when they feel the need to light up. I don't push my bad habbits on others and ask them to not push theirs off on me.

Everyone knows of someone who has smoked all their life and dies at over 100, but there are a lot more cases of cancer and other ailments from it. Why should one smoker be able to make the choice for the rest of the people in the room wheather they want to be around it or not. Take it somewhere that will not affect everyone around you.

scottrc

In my clubs, all the old guys smoke, it is just a sign of the time I guess. But we do have a few young guys who believe that since we live in a politically correct society, take it upon themselves to disrespect the older generations by making a huge deal about their smoking. For me, there is a lot of space at the field where I can move to since I'm the minority non-smoker, but like Art said, I have watched a few times where a young guy almost got decked because he told the smoker off and the then gave him a lecture about the harmful effects of smoking.

Now that more and more gassers are showing up, I am seeing a trend of "no smoking" on the flight-line since gasoline is much more flammable. I agree that since we are around so many flammable materials, that the flightline is not a good place to smoke.

Scott

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

There may not have been a standing rule against smoking in the Clubhouse, but I'm sure there isn't a rule against burning cow manure, either. If your club is, by natuer of its charter, an "Open" club - that is, all that wish to join is permitted to do so - then even if there is ONLY ONE non-smoking member, he/she must be accomodated. Otherwise, the club will be practicing implicit exclusion.

Smoking isn't a majority rule issue, as one guy puffing away can gag 99 other non-smokers in the same room. However, what the majority may be able to do is vote to turn the entire Clubhouse into a smoking area. That would be perfectly legal. What that will do to the membership in the long run is quite another matter.

I have suffered through my first 20 some odd years with smokers practicing their "rights" in public buildings, cars, buses, and airplane cabin. Besides the health concerns, cigarette smoke gags me. When a smoker pursues his happiness in the same room, I cannot pursue mine. These days, I have no qualms about telling a smoker to put out the light where it don't belong.

Oh, let's not make this into a young v.s. old thing. Respect is granted neither by age nor tradition; it is earned through the very practice of same for others. One only hopes with age comes the wisdom to excercise, rather than demand, respect.

glowplug

My Feedback: (1)

The majority has spoken, and that was the right thing to do.......but now that smoking is banned in your clubhouse, I don't understand what the big deal is?? Why can't he just go outside and smoke??? I'm a smoker and I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that....in fact, I smoke outside at my own house....

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

My 2 cents.

If someone had stuck his hand in my face while I was lighting a smoke, he would probably now have a broken arm. The smoker, out of politically correct courtesy, should have let people know of his intentions before hand. The non-smokers, being as vociferous as they always are, would surely have been most audible in their negative protests.

As an aside, being politically correct is for wimps.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of all the self righteous types that believe that their way (the non-smokers) is the only way to live and you should drop off the face of the earth if you're not just like them. I can't stand the taste or smell of cooked sea foods, so obviously I believe that all fish type foods should be banned and eliminated. The stuff's disgusting.

By the way, a fully documented study was performed a year or so back by the World Health Orginization (W.H.O.) that scientifically noted that second hand smoke did not have harmful effects. I'm still waiting to see all the documentation (scientific) that proves, rather than alleges or theorizes, how dangerous and damaging second hand smoke is.

Yes, I smoke. I would also like to quit. In the meantime, to each his own, and I won't bother you if you don't bother me.

ProfLooney

I used to smoke and dont anymore just by choice and nothing to do with any health scares. I think the smoking issue is just going too overboard these days. I mean theres as much carcenagens in the normal air we breath and even iun some of the food we eat. smoking is not any more dangerous than if no one smoked as we have the same chances of getting health problems weather we smoke or not. thats just like these PC people sueing the cigarette companies when they clearly label their products and its peoples choice to smoke or not. Too many righteous people now a days feel that everyone should bend over and kis their arses its getting rediculous. glad they looking to do something about all these frivelous lawsuits. Just like mc donalds is the devils brew now.

Joe

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

You would likely be in jail for assault.

Agree!

Frankly, I'm tired of all the inconsiderate smokers who believe they have the right to blow their smelly second hand smoke in my face, or all over my food while I'm eating. The stuff sticks to my clothes and ends up in my car and house. They should consider that they are not the only person on earth.

I trust the W.H.O. about as much as I trust the U.N. Also, different studies come out every day contradicting each other. On a matter as important as somthing that could potentially kill you, because some other idiot chooses to force his practices upon you, I prefer not to wait till I have cancer to tell him to stop.

Then quit!

joetsunami

Ewwwwww, what a horrible subject!!

I used to smoke; even when I did smoke, I hated the smell of it on my clothes.

BUT, as a former smoker, I can say, with my much heightened sense of smell, that A LOT of things stink, and stay with you!

I eat at a bar some days for lunch, guess what my clothes smell like when I leave. You got it, OIL! I can smell the frying oil the cook uses for the french fries on my clothes (always could before, just worse now).
When I barbecue I carry around the smell with me, and I notice it. When I pull winter clothes from my closet, I can smell their 'Not so fresh' smell. If I light an outdoor fire, I spend the rest of the day carrying around the smell of paper burning. Some people have a better sense of smell than others. I can't stand the smell of strong perfume, and can't wear cologne because it seems I never get used to the smell, and I notice it all day.

SO?

So, I believe in my heart of hearts that the maniacal anti-smokers use their health as an excuse, when the smell is their real reason for disliking smoking. I mean some of these people take it to an extreme. Southern California with it's exreme anti-smokers has HORRIBLE air pollution! If they were truly worried about their health, they'd of left!

Not all anti-smokers are so motivated, just some.

That said, I hate the smell of a smoker's hotel room. Smoking on planes was STUPID. No one could leave! Smoking genuinely bothers some, and is not to be condoned, but smoking in bars is to be expected! Smoking in restaurants is the OWNERS choice!

Take a vote on it, don't allow smoking in the clubhouse if the majority rules it should be so. But remember, there are 2 issues, one loudly spoken of, the other quiet. The first is health, the second is the smell. You'll find that many anti-smokers wouldn't allow smoking in the clubhouse even on the day after the monthly meeting, even if no one was to use the facility for 29 days, because the SMELL is what is really important to them.

My two cents anyway.

PJC

Smoking No Smoking

The Fertilizer/weed killer Debate, and when to do it, (members arguing with professinal Landscaper members about what works on their 100 sq patch)

Cell Phone Usage, and CPU radios.

Parking, and reserved parking spaces (not handicapped mind you)

Stones or grass around the tables

Non Dairy vs Dairy Creamers (one of my all time Favorites)

Some of the silly arguements which seem to revolve around my club and others. All truely compelling wastes of time. Really enteraining at meetings as well. My opinion is who cares? Someone smokes inside a tight room (like a clubhouse) I would probably exit the club house, and I smoke. It is always rude to push your beliefs on someone else.

In reality I like the petty field arguements, leaves more flightline for me

With that the pointless Diatribe ends...

LeeL

My Feedback: (1)

there seems to be a deeper issue at hand here, it seems that every one has an oppinion that they belive to be the right one. I belive that non-smokers have the right to not have to be exposed to the smoke. I also belive that smokers have the right to light up if they want. So how do you accomplish all this, by having some common courtiousy for other people. If you dont want to be around the smoke get the hell out of the area if you are in an enclosed area ask the person lighting up to please not smoke because it bothers you. Do it in a dignified way and I will bet you wont have any problems. If you are a smoker try asking if any one minds before you light up. I have seen many times in the past where people that dont want to be around the smoke will either leave or just tolerate it because the person had enough common sense to just ask. The long and short of it is realy simple my oppinion is just that my oppinion it doesnt mean squat your oppinion is your oppinion and it don't mean squat. What does matter is how we handle ourselves when our oppinions differ.

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

If any of you have seen the lungs of a smoker that died from lung cancer and emphasema, you might change your opinion on this subject. I respect those who don't mind going out that way, but there are many of us that don't appreciate being dragged along with you.

The point here isn't about smoker vs non-smoker. It's about whether the RC Clubhouse is considered a "public" area or a "private" property. Decide that, and the answer to allow smoking or not will become very obvious.

Eugoogoly

PJC you forgot one thing

Christianity versus every other religion

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

Yeah! Cigarette smoke is harmful but glow smoke with all it's crap is healthy!??? What a bunch of garbage. I quit 3 years ago after a heart attack, but I would not think that letting an old-timer or anyone smoke in a clubhouse is going to kill me. People! Put this in perspective please. A little smoke once in awhile isn't going to kill you. You better shut down all of our internal combustion transportation and especially diesel. Look at the city air. It's freakin' brown everywhere. It's going to do a lot more harm than a cigarette. I live in the country where it's "clean" and people are burning wood in completely sealed stoves and producing all sorts of toxic fumes and I'm going to worry about an occasional cigarette.
Let's be a little tolerant please!

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Tolerance? Let me put it this way: My father was a smoker when I was young, so was the nanny hired to take care of me as a baby. On my right arm, I can still faintly see the cigarette burn I got from when I was less than 6months old. I suffered from childhood asthma and am still dealing with respiratory allergies till this day. Studies have shown that children exposed to cigarette smoke during the early years of life develop less lung capacity and the effects are permanent.

The RC clubhouse is used by more than just adults. I plan to bring my son to the RC flying field in a few years. If any smoker wants us to tolerate their smoking in the Clubhouse... well, he/she will have to tolerate a few unleasantness from me as well.

How exactly does the presence of other pollutants in the air make second hand smoke okay? That's like saying: hey, that tap water you're drinking has chlorine, cyst, trace amount of copper, lead and other heavy metals in it, so here, let me pee in it a little - it's all bad for you anyway, right.?

Anybody care to tolerate a little pee water?