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Am I right or wrong?

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Old 03-06-2003, 11:05 AM
  #1  
dirt dummy
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I won an easy sport on ebay. It was built with extended control surfaces. When I recieved it the plane was as stated, But he had cut the tail wing off to ship! Also he cut through the ca hinges on the rudder. I emailed him and ask why he did it he replied he does it all the time so it will not get damaged in shipping. He said that nobody has ever complained about it. What gets me was it was a rough knife job. I can fix it but I feel I should not have to if he had shiped in one peice. I have asked him for a new tail set to wich he replied no! Do you guy's think I am right in being mad? Or am I just being anal?

Thanks Don M
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Old 03-06-2003, 12:56 PM
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RapidRobert
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Dirt Dummy,
Darn straight, I'd be PO'd
That takes a lot of guts to do something like that.
He need's those pieces put where the sun doesn't shine!!
Bob
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Old 03-06-2003, 01:22 PM
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dirtdummy:

That's why I don't buy used airplanes on ebay or on RCU unless it's close enough that I can go pick it up.

I don't think your anal in being mad, but you all should have discussed how the plane was to be shipped.


RapidRobert:

I do however think your comment was a little anal. Telling some one to put it where the sun doesn't shine is a little more than I needed to know.

It's just as much as dirtdummys fault as it is the guy he bought the plane from. It should have been discussed before he bid on the airplane.

I'm not trying to bad month anyone here I just have had a lot of experience buying and selling from ebay. It is a bummer dirtdummy that he cut the tail off but hopefully you can get it back together ok.
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Old 03-06-2003, 01:32 PM
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I am a good friend of Dirt Dummy's and was present when he opened the box.

My jaw dropped open in disbelief that someone would do that. He hacked it out with an exacto knife. It's all jagged and has thick and thin spots. To even put a new tail section in the plane would require many hours of cutting and sanding inside the slot of the fuselage.

Then we saw the rudder with the CA hinges cut right down the hinge gap line with a knife as well. Half glued in the rudder and half still glued in the vertical stab.

There's no doubt in my mind that this isn't right. The picture on ebay showed the plane whole. The person who sold it made absolutely no mention of doing this sadistic act to the plane for shipping purposes.

He says he has done this many times and nobody else has gotten upset or made mention of it.

Jack
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Old 03-06-2003, 01:45 PM
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Once again that is why I don't buy used airplanes on the internet unless I can pick up.

There are a lot of jacked up people out there that will do anything to make a buck, and ebay is the worst I might add. I've gotten a lot of good deals through ebay but here lately I've kind of slacked off from buying anything on ebay because of the things going on in the world lately.

Again I'm sorry to hear about his plane having the tail cut off and no it's not right,,,, But he should have not assumed that it would be shipped in one piece. I have seen this before that's why I can't stress enough that he should have discussed how the plane was to be shipped before he bid.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone here I'm just merely stating my opinion from experience.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:50 PM
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I think that the seller should have disclosed his plans in the item description. He might have had something listed in the description like "a little bit of hangar rash", but he didn't tell dirt dummy that the tail would be cut off to ship??? I don't think that's very fair.

Mike
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:09 PM
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Mike Bogh
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Your right.
Now, I am moving this thread to the Clubhouse as I feel that's where it belongs.
Good luck getting your money back,
Mike
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:18 PM
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did you take any pictures? I would be very mad.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:33 PM
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I would be ticked. I buy a lot of things on ebay and have shipped a lot too. If the plane is in one piece, I would expect it be that way when it shows up. I have had a lot shipped with the tail on. If it were cut off, I would demand a refund. It is an easy fix, but that is not the point. If someone said they were going to cut the tail off to ship it, it would greatly affect my bid. I would raise a little heck if I were you.

I even had one guy send one that had the tail sticking out of the box on both sides. I could not believe they accepted it that way, and for sure amazed it didn't get broken. Lucky I guess.

You have every right to be mad.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:55 PM
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Dirt Dummy,

I too would be highly upset with anyone treating a fellow modeler(presuming the seller was a modeler) with this type of selfish behavior. Selfish because he/she took an obviously easy way out to ship a product. Should have modified the box, or got a bigger one.

You had every right to expect the plane to be shipped as stated, to include exceptions if noted. The removal of previously built parts should definitely be noted.
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:18 PM
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Did you check the sellers ratings before buying? If so, what were they? Did you use any of the systems that give you recourse if the item is not acceptable?
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:23 PM
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Dirt Dummy,

CAP232CM is entirely WRONG when he suggests that you are in some small way to blame for this tragedy!

I think you should pursue legal action against the seller of this item or at least use eBay's dispute resolution system. The bottom line is that the plane, as received was not in the condition it was in when you agreed to its purchase.

Please post the seller's eBay handle (user name) in this thread so that I can add them to my banned list.

You got hosed big time and I am sorry about that. I hope you can get your money back or at least come to some sort of favorable outcome.

Best of luck!
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by CAP232CM
But he should have not assumed that it would be shipped in one piece.

What?! What a ridiculous statement. Would it have been OK if the seller had chopped the fuse just behind the firewall? Of course not....unless he stated he would.

I always use a credit card (paypal or C2it) if I don't know the person or the amount isn't enough to matter. That way if everything isn't exactly as represented I'm covered under my fraud protection from Visa if the seller won't refund money.....and I get miles.

I'd get your money back....or a least something for your trouble.

You also stated that he said he has done many times before and no one complained. Go to his feedback page and email some of the other people he has sold to and see if this is true.

Good luck with the whole thing.

Bob
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:33 PM
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Thanks for the replies ! The first thing I always do is check a persons feedback. His was excellent no negative feedback.

Cap2323cm. You are right about buying a plane on ebay. But I had no idea to ask if he was going to remove the tail. The easy sport is not that big a plane. I have seen on ebay where large scale planes have had to be taken apart. I feel that he should have mentioned it to me.

Mike Bogh Sorry I posted this in the wrong place. You can see by my post count that I am new here. I am not looking for my money back, Just a new tail or the $26.00 to buy one. The rest of the plane was as stated except for some hanger rash that he did'nt mention. The rash does not bother me just the tail.

Pinball As iI stated in this reply I did check his feedback it was good. He shiped it out real fast to. I gave him negative feedback after 5 day's of going back and forth with e mail's trying to get a new tail set.

JS3 Thanks for your concern but I don't think its worth my time or aggravation to go through the ebay complaint process. I think I will send the seller a link to this thread, Because he treated me like this was not a big deal and I was wrong for complaining.
Here is a link to the Item http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...112554140&rd=1

Once again I didn't want or expect a refund I just wanted a new tail set. They are $26.00 on ebay. I don't think that's to much to ask, But he did! I will caulk this up as a lesson learned. Thanks for the replies I will send him a link to this so he can see I am not the only one who thinks he is wrong. Mabey it will help out the next guy.
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:39 PM
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Default Shipping Planes

I have done literally hundreds of deals buying and selling R/C planes and equipment on-line and would never in my worst fears expect anyone to ship a built model in any other condition than what was pictured or described unless told before hand. Removing a Stabilizer or tail section that has NOT been glued in is one thing, removing one that has been attached is not something anyone should expect or imagine. To say the buyer in this case has any fault at all is totally WRONG. You definitely deserve a refund to include shipping and he deserves a negative feedback even if he is a jerk and gives you one as well.
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Dave Bowles
I have done literally hundreds of deals buying and selling R/C planes and equipment on-line and would never in my worst fears expect anyone to ship a built model in any other condition than what was pictured or described unless told before hand. Removing a Stabilizer or tail section that has NOT been glued in is one thing, removing one that has been attached is not something anyone should expect or imagine. To say the buyer in this case has any fault at all is totally WRONG. You definitely deserve a refund to include shipping and he deserves a negative feedback even if he is a jerk and gives you one as well.
I have to agree here 100%, totally insane to remove the tail once it has been glued on!!! I would habe have gone ballistic and feel you are handling this very well. No you are right in feeling the way that you do.
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Old 03-06-2003, 07:29 PM
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WOW! What would a guy think? If you go to his feedback, you'd figure on receiving your plane in perff. condition without any reservation I do feel he should have given you every detail of his intent before shipping. AND NO!! THIS IS NOT STANDARD PROCEDURE TO DETACH FINISHED PART'S BEFORE SHIPPING! However , I bet you ask about it from now on. The prob. is , most sellers won't know what your asking about because it's not the norm. It's an easy fix ,so you'll have her up and running in short order. NOW ON A SIDE NOTE: Am I the only one that would really like to see picture's in a case like this? (not to doubt your word dirt) but. If asked, should I be mad? in fairness to us as well, there should be picture's posted so we can assess the damages, and the right course of repair. good luck, and happy flying
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:38 PM
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I agree.

On one he says tail will be off ARF style and another says "The horizontal tail will be removed for shipping, very easy to do due to a screw."

Doesn't look or sound like rough surgery to me! The tone of these sales don't appeal to me. One has to try to read between the lines.
You sure shouldn't have to ask how it will be shipped.
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Old 03-07-2003, 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Buz^
WOW! What would a guy think? If you go to his feedback, you'd figure on receiving your plane in perff. condition without any reservation I do feel he should have given you every detail of his intent before shipping. AND NO!! THIS IS NOT STANDARD PROCEDURE TO DETACH FINISHED PART'S BEFORE SHIPPING! However , I bet you ask about it from now on. The prob. is , most sellers won't know what your asking about because it's not the norm. It's an easy fix ,so you'll have her up and running in short order. NOW ON A SIDE NOTE: Am I the only one that would really like to see picture's in a case like this? (not to doubt your word dirt) but. If asked, should I be mad? in fairness to us as well, there should be picture's posted so we can assess the damages, and the right course of repair. good luck, and happy flying
I will post some pictures tomorrow night. I don't own a camera but I will take it to my buddy who does.
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Old 03-07-2003, 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by 4*60
I agree.

On one he says tail will be off ARF style and another says "The horizontal tail will be removed for shipping, very easy to do due to a screw."

Doesn't look or sound like rough surgery to me! The tone of these sales don't appeal to me. One has to try to read between the lines.
You sure shouldn't have to ask how it will be shipped.
I don't know what you are trying to say. He never stated removing anything. Here is his description copied from ebay

Description


This is a great planes easy sport. It has enlarged control surfaces and it also has a turtledeck and a belly pan. Happy Bidding And Good Luck!!
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Old 03-07-2003, 01:36 AM
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I am agreeing with you. Even in previous plane sales he stated he would remove things, but where there were screws or it was loosely attached. I agree completely, he never indicated he would use rough surgery to remove a tail even though he claims he's done it before. Sorry you misunderstood. I AGREE WITH YOU!
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Old 03-07-2003, 02:12 AM
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js3: Entirely wrong hey. I don't think so bud. A lawsuit give me a break. That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. The person selling the plane should have stated that he was going to remove the tail. Yes I agree but like I've said 3 times now he should have not assumed this and asked how the plane was to be shipped BEFORE he even placed a bid. Ebay stresses this in great detail to email the person if you have questions BEFORE you bid.

You people are missing the point entirely, reread my posts.

I have seen people remove tails on planes sold on ebay and this is the best way to ship, but dirtdummy was not aware and got a real hack job. The best thing for him to do now is to cut his losses and jot this down as a lesson learned.

And once again ya it's not right but what choice does he really have. To take a lawsuit against the seller, I don't think that is a real solution. Report to ebay harbor, yes this is what I would do. Will the person be banned? I doubt it unless there have been complaints before.

BTW I'm not a ebay rookie and I know what the heck I'm talking about so don't talk to me like I'm an idiot js3.


sideshow: Do you want to know what a ridiculous statement is? That is to say "Would it have been OK if the seller had chopped the fuse just behind the firewall?" This obviously has no bearing on the subject because we are not talking about the firewall, duh. Why the hell would he cut it there? You need to reread my posts as well and the above for js3.


dirtdummy: again I'm sorry you had this problem but like I said at least you will know next time. I would contact ebay and tell them your story and maybe they can help. Good Luck!
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Old 03-07-2003, 02:55 AM
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The point you seem to be missing CAP232CM is -

Before this I would have never even dreamed that someone would hack an attached tail and rudder off of a plane to ship it. Especially without even making mention of it.

Now, I could imagine somebody hacking it right down the middle, (or even right behind the firewall) to fit it in a box and that just ain't right.

The picture clearly shows a whole plane with the tail and rudder installed, not hacked off.

While it probably can be glued back in, who's to say that it will not break at one of the rough cuts and cause the whole plane, (possibly the engine and radio equipment as well) to be a loss. Every manufacturer stresses highly to not score or cut the wood itself when you remove the monokote from the glue joint area. They do that for a reason. Even a light score into the balsa will jeaporadize the integrity of the structure.

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Old 03-07-2003, 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by CAP232CM
BTW I'm not a ebay rookie and I know what the heck I'm talking about so don't talk to me like I'm an idiot js3.
CAP232CM,

I wasn't talking to you like you are an idiot; I wasn't talking to you at all. What I said to Dirt Dummy was that you are entirely wrong when you suggest that he is responsible and should not have assumed that it would be shipped in one piece. It is still MY OPINION that you are entirely wrong for suggesting he is responsible for his predicament.

As for legal action being "the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard" I'm glad I could provide such amusement for you. I hope it made your day. I was not kidding though. I know that a well prepared letter written on professional letterhead and signed by an attorney can provide ample motivation to people.

However, with that being said, it was not my intention to offend you in any way. Please accept my humblest and most heartfelt apology for so seriously offending your sensibilities.
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Old 03-07-2003, 09:15 AM
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Yep, I'd be ticked off if someone hacked away the tail and cut the hinges without telling me. As far as asking how it will be shipped. I'd want to know by what company and then I would demand it be insured and packed well. I'd want to know the tracking # if applicable. But let's be serious. Who's going to ask if they hacked off the freaking tail? Who would even think someone would do that? The seller was wrong, he should give you a full refund. That would be a lesson learned for him. To not be stupid. That's my opinion.

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